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August 23

Category:Southwest Conference Women's Soccer Tournament

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 September 27#Category:Southwest Conference Women's Soccer Tournament. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: I created this today, but accidentally gave it the wrong title ( SWC vs SWAC). I created the category (and a few others) to try and standardize DI women's soccer articles. Apologies for the screwup! Cleancutkid ( talk) 23:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • @ Marcocapelle: Well, eventually it could/would have an article for each year the tournament has/will run, plus one for the tournament as a whole (see the slightly-more-populated Category:ACC Women's Soccer Tournament). I created a number of these last week because about half (or more) the DI conferences had one already for women's soccer tourneys, and half didn't. Also, it matched the style from other sports (see Category:ACC Men's Basketball Tournament or Category:Southwestern Athletic Conference Baseball Tournament). I'm very new to working with categories, so I would defer to others' judgement on whether the category is too narrow (I know I get annoyed when I have to take 5 steps up/down a category tree to get anywhere). I know that "it exists somewhere else" is not sufficient justification, but in this case, it seems to be a pretty broad pattern in NCAA sports? I'm not vitally attached to this scheme, but if the category does stick around, it needs a new name, because right now it is referring to a defunct conference. Also, if you do think it should be killed, ideas on (re)organizing the NCAA women's soccer category tree would be welcome - I feel like it is less standardized/more complicated than it should be. Cleancutkid ( talk) 02:53, 31 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1708 establishments in the Kingdom of Great Britain

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 September 27#Category:1708 establishments in the Kingdom of Great Britain. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category is a copy of ‹The template Cat is being considered for merging.›  Category:1708 establishments in Great Britain. -- Nevé – selbert 22:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
Comment It is not splitting hairs, it is adding precision. That's a good thing to do. Having a few more letters in the cat name is a small price to pay for precision. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 10:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Comment every entity in the "XXXX establishments in Foo" is a state. Please name one entity in the tree structure that is not now or was not at one time a state. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 09:47, 7 September 2017 (UTC) reply
  • False The categories that I created are non disruptive as they are the more correct form. It is the GB variant that is anomalous as only states establish, not islands. It is also false because they were created before the CFD, not after. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 09:31, 19 September 2017 (UTC) reply
    • Proof of your false claim: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_March_4#Great_Britain_the_island_vs_GB_the_state dated 4 March and closed on 27 April, these categories were created 16 May which is after not before- blatant. Tim! ( talk) 16:15, 19 September 2017 (UTC) reply
      • Rebuttal The CFD cited above is not the CFD that I had in mind. I was thinking of the epic CFD of July 8. This date is after the date that the 3 categories of this nomination were created. In that epic nom, Tim participated, and started the myth which he has again attempted to feed. I called it out then in these terms: "Tim neglects to mention that the closing Admin of the nomination that he cited said "Perhaps the Events (including Trials, Disestablishments and Establishments) should be renamed with "Kingdom of..."". As I wrote at the time, I believe that it showed bad faith on Tim's part not to have cited that ref by the closing admin. Clearly, he has not learnt his lesson. Tim then went on to attempt to blacken my reputation by digging up old dirt, contrary to Wikipedia:Don't remind others of past misdeeds which he dismissed as a mere essay. Had more dispassionate editors from outside the UK participated in all these discussions, it is likely that KoGB would have primacy for state events and not GB (the island). But we are where we are. But not of this is an excuse for on-going mud-slinging and the making of blatently false accusations. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 20:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scottish football chairmen and investors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For consistency with Category:Directors of football clubs in Scotland and to make clear that inclusion is not related to individuals' nationality. Jellyman ( talk) 07:44, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient Germanic history and culture

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content, it is not about history on the one hand and culture on the other hand, but about the history of culture. An alternative rename could be to Category:Ancient Germanic culture since "ancient" already implies history. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:31, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:9th century in the Carolingian Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: upmerge, the Carolingian Empire was from 800 to 888 so a separate 9th century subcategory in the tree is redundant. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Historically, we don't classify people as anti-Zionists. —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Palestinians anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Historically, we don't classify people as anti-Zionists. —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:01, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
—  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:34, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: -- Subjective, i.e., difficulty (varying degrees, depending on the country or nation or territory) in discerning where anti-Zionism leaves off and anti-Semitism or anti-Jewish sentiment begins, or vice versa (i.e. Ireland). To be a Palestinian or Egyptian anti-Zionist is inherently unavoidable, making a category in which well more than 90% of the population of a particular country or territory qualifies meaningless. I also adopt the reasoning of my esteemed fellow editors, @Malik Shabazz and @Oculi, regarding continual recreation of categories which always are deleted. Time for SALTING, I think. Quis separabit? 13:37, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete – per nom. Seems to be obvious re-spawning of categories deleted per cfd. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 16:22, 24 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete One can actually find cases of both Palestinians and Egyptians who are clearly Zionist in persuasion, so being an anti-Zionist is not "unavoidable". Plus, especially for Egyptians neautrality on the matter is possible. It is hard to class those in Egypt who orchestrated the treaty with Israel as "anti-Zionists". Also by some definitions an anti-Zionist is someone who denies Israel's right to exist and seeks to deport all the Jews there out of the Middle East. While this does seem to describe the political position of much of the Palestinian leadership, and claims to recognize the right of Israel to exist have never been proven to be more than window dressing to attempt to gain political legitimacy in the eyes of the few who have not bought into the antisemitism inherent in anti-Zionism, there are still questions of degrees of hate for Israel and refusal to recognize its right to exist. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:04, 27 August 2017 (UTC) reply
@John Pack Lambert:
a)It is hard to class those in Egypt who orchestrated the treaty with Israel as "anti-Zionists" -- really?? I guess the Irish signatories of the Anglo-Irish Treaty were pro-British. Treaties, even those worth more than the paper they are printed on, do not quantify anything other the narrow circumstances in which two or more countries (almost always temporarily; sometimes briefly) are "allied" against a common foe.
b) "One can actually find cases of both Palestinians and Egyptians who are clearly Zionist in persuasion" -- can you name any (non-Jewish) Palestinian or Egyptian Zionists off-hand? Quis separabit? 17:41, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
According to our categorization scheme, at least, there are no notable Egyptian Zionists or Palestinian Zionists (although some Arab Zionists may be Palestinians). —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 20:12, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Anti-Zionists refuse the right of Israel to exist as a nation. No one would say the signatories of the Anglo-Irish treaty reject the right of self-government for the people of Northern Ireland. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 23:48, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_August_23&oldid=1083983911"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< August 22 August 24 >

August 23

Category:Southwest Conference Women's Soccer Tournament

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 September 27#Category:Southwest Conference Women's Soccer Tournament. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: I created this today, but accidentally gave it the wrong title ( SWC vs SWAC). I created the category (and a few others) to try and standardize DI women's soccer articles. Apologies for the screwup! Cleancutkid ( talk) 23:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • @ Marcocapelle: Well, eventually it could/would have an article for each year the tournament has/will run, plus one for the tournament as a whole (see the slightly-more-populated Category:ACC Women's Soccer Tournament). I created a number of these last week because about half (or more) the DI conferences had one already for women's soccer tourneys, and half didn't. Also, it matched the style from other sports (see Category:ACC Men's Basketball Tournament or Category:Southwestern Athletic Conference Baseball Tournament). I'm very new to working with categories, so I would defer to others' judgement on whether the category is too narrow (I know I get annoyed when I have to take 5 steps up/down a category tree to get anywhere). I know that "it exists somewhere else" is not sufficient justification, but in this case, it seems to be a pretty broad pattern in NCAA sports? I'm not vitally attached to this scheme, but if the category does stick around, it needs a new name, because right now it is referring to a defunct conference. Also, if you do think it should be killed, ideas on (re)organizing the NCAA women's soccer category tree would be welcome - I feel like it is less standardized/more complicated than it should be. Cleancutkid ( talk) 02:53, 31 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1708 establishments in the Kingdom of Great Britain

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 September 27#Category:1708 establishments in the Kingdom of Great Britain. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category is a copy of ‹The template Cat is being considered for merging.›  Category:1708 establishments in Great Britain. -- Nevé – selbert 22:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
Comment It is not splitting hairs, it is adding precision. That's a good thing to do. Having a few more letters in the cat name is a small price to pay for precision. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 10:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Comment every entity in the "XXXX establishments in Foo" is a state. Please name one entity in the tree structure that is not now or was not at one time a state. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 09:47, 7 September 2017 (UTC) reply
  • False The categories that I created are non disruptive as they are the more correct form. It is the GB variant that is anomalous as only states establish, not islands. It is also false because they were created before the CFD, not after. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 09:31, 19 September 2017 (UTC) reply
    • Proof of your false claim: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_March_4#Great_Britain_the_island_vs_GB_the_state dated 4 March and closed on 27 April, these categories were created 16 May which is after not before- blatant. Tim! ( talk) 16:15, 19 September 2017 (UTC) reply
      • Rebuttal The CFD cited above is not the CFD that I had in mind. I was thinking of the epic CFD of July 8. This date is after the date that the 3 categories of this nomination were created. In that epic nom, Tim participated, and started the myth which he has again attempted to feed. I called it out then in these terms: "Tim neglects to mention that the closing Admin of the nomination that he cited said "Perhaps the Events (including Trials, Disestablishments and Establishments) should be renamed with "Kingdom of..."". As I wrote at the time, I believe that it showed bad faith on Tim's part not to have cited that ref by the closing admin. Clearly, he has not learnt his lesson. Tim then went on to attempt to blacken my reputation by digging up old dirt, contrary to Wikipedia:Don't remind others of past misdeeds which he dismissed as a mere essay. Had more dispassionate editors from outside the UK participated in all these discussions, it is likely that KoGB would have primacy for state events and not GB (the island). But we are where we are. But not of this is an excuse for on-going mud-slinging and the making of blatently false accusations. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 20:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scottish football chairmen and investors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For consistency with Category:Directors of football clubs in Scotland and to make clear that inclusion is not related to individuals' nationality. Jellyman ( talk) 07:44, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient Germanic history and culture

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content, it is not about history on the one hand and culture on the other hand, but about the history of culture. An alternative rename could be to Category:Ancient Germanic culture since "ancient" already implies history. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:31, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:9th century in the Carolingian Empire

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. ℯ xplicit 02:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: upmerge, the Carolingian Empire was from 800 to 888 so a separate 9th century subcategory in the tree is redundant. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Historically, we don't classify people as anti-Zionists. —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Palestinians anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. ℯ xplicit 05:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Historically, we don't classify people as anti-Zionists. —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:01, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
—  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 02:34, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete: -- Subjective, i.e., difficulty (varying degrees, depending on the country or nation or territory) in discerning where anti-Zionism leaves off and anti-Semitism or anti-Jewish sentiment begins, or vice versa (i.e. Ireland). To be a Palestinian or Egyptian anti-Zionist is inherently unavoidable, making a category in which well more than 90% of the population of a particular country or territory qualifies meaningless. I also adopt the reasoning of my esteemed fellow editors, @Malik Shabazz and @Oculi, regarding continual recreation of categories which always are deleted. Time for SALTING, I think. Quis separabit? 13:37, 23 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete – per nom. Seems to be obvious re-spawning of categories deleted per cfd. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 16:22, 24 August 2017 (UTC) reply
  • Delete One can actually find cases of both Palestinians and Egyptians who are clearly Zionist in persuasion, so being an anti-Zionist is not "unavoidable". Plus, especially for Egyptians neautrality on the matter is possible. It is hard to class those in Egypt who orchestrated the treaty with Israel as "anti-Zionists". Also by some definitions an anti-Zionist is someone who denies Israel's right to exist and seeks to deport all the Jews there out of the Middle East. While this does seem to describe the political position of much of the Palestinian leadership, and claims to recognize the right of Israel to exist have never been proven to be more than window dressing to attempt to gain political legitimacy in the eyes of the few who have not bought into the antisemitism inherent in anti-Zionism, there are still questions of degrees of hate for Israel and refusal to recognize its right to exist. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:04, 27 August 2017 (UTC) reply
@John Pack Lambert:
a)It is hard to class those in Egypt who orchestrated the treaty with Israel as "anti-Zionists" -- really?? I guess the Irish signatories of the Anglo-Irish Treaty were pro-British. Treaties, even those worth more than the paper they are printed on, do not quantify anything other the narrow circumstances in which two or more countries (almost always temporarily; sometimes briefly) are "allied" against a common foe.
b) "One can actually find cases of both Palestinians and Egyptians who are clearly Zionist in persuasion" -- can you name any (non-Jewish) Palestinian or Egyptian Zionists off-hand? Quis separabit? 17:41, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
According to our categorization scheme, at least, there are no notable Egyptian Zionists or Palestinian Zionists (although some Arab Zionists may be Palestinians). —  Malik Shabazz  Talk/ Stalk 20:12, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
Anti-Zionists refuse the right of Israel to exist as a nation. No one would say the signatories of the Anglo-Irish treaty reject the right of self-government for the people of Northern Ireland. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 23:48, 4 September 2017 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_August_23&oldid=1083983911"

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