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Rename / don't merge. I've been checking out both categories. Apparently a neighbourhood is a part of a district. Or actually the articles refer to "boroughs" instead of "districts" so I would rather propose to rename the nominated category to
Category:Boroughs of Kristiansand. In fact some other Norwegian cities have a category "Boroughs and neighbourhoods" which should be all right when the number of boroughs and neigbourhoods is too small to make separate categories. But that's not the situation here.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:09, 18 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Places of interest in Kristiansand
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Nominator's rationale: Not possible or feasible to define "interest". Strictly speaking, all our articles related to the city Kristiansand should be included here, since a topic has to catch interest (notability) to be included in Wikipedia.
Geschichte (
talk)
21:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Things named after Nnamdi Azikiwe
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Cardiovascular disease deaths
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Delete Looking through these biography categories, it groups people together that have nothing in common outside of dying from a common and non-defining type of death.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dry places in New Jersey
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. A CFD for this category was a resounding "keep" last month, and
another was just closed as "keep" a few hours ago, but today's closer specifically noted that there was no consensus regarding the name itself; the first "keep" was consensus against deletion, and the second was against splitting the category into several pieces. I'm just suggesting that we change the name without changing the category's scope. Basically, the name is confusing, because it makes it sound as if this category embraces locations with little rainfall, not locations that
prohibit the sale of alcohol. The previous CFD attracted several people who advocated for "dry jurisdictions" or "dry municipalities"; I'm suggesting "municipalities" because "jurisdictions" can embrace non-municipalities, such as
school districts and entire
counties, which aren't what we're looking for here. While "dry places" could refer to spots without rain, anyone will understand that precipitation doesn't follow municipal boundaries, so even the reader who's never heard this sense of "dry" will understand that it's something unrelated to rainfall. Final note: at the previous CFD, someone noted that
one article in the category wasn't a separate municipality. I've removed this category from the article because it's a different situation: it's a privately owned community, and the landowner prohibits the sale of alcohol. "Dry" in this sense refers to legal jurisdictions of whatever sort that enact laws forbidding alcohol sales, not private owners that choose not to sell it or use contracts and similar
civil law tools to prevent sales on their own property; otherwise we could put most fast-food restaurants in the category too, since they generally don't sell alcohol and don't allow others to sell alcohol on their own grounds.
Nyttend (
talk)
15:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Rename I'm not sure that "dry municipalities" is any better than "dry towns" or "dry places" in describing places that prohibit the sale of alcohol, not that face persistent drought. The choice of "municipality" seems designed to accomplish nothing in terms of clarity while losing an entry for
Ocean Grove, New Jersey. The community, which is a census-designated place with more than 3,300 residents, was established in 1869 by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association, which still operates the community, setting rules and regulations that have the force of law, including restrictions on the sale of liquor.
This article from The New York Times is one of hundreds available that highlight the fact that the community is dry and it is clear that the non-sale of alcohol is a defining characteristic of the community, which could not possibly be said about a single restaurant that chooses not to have a liquor license or sell alcohol. The community had been incorporated as a municipality in 1920, a status that lasted for a year until it was dissolved by the state courts, and to this day the community maintains an independent status.
This article emphasizes the status of Ocean Grove "as a quasi-independent enclave" that was established under a "special legislative charter [that] allowed the incorporated Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association to retain private ownership of all of the land but operate it as a municipality." Losing the Ocean Grove article in this structure loses the ability to navigate across similar articles by their common defining characteristic.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:57, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
That's a really interesting piece of history near me that I was not aware of but, according to the article, the official theocratic rule ended in 1981. Sources are scared but I'm guessing the church is restricting alcohol now because they own all the land in the town (or in the neighborhood, it's only a 3rd of a square mile) and won't lease it to alcohol merchants. If so, such a private lease restriction is the same as a legal ban, it's more like if the LDS Church decided not to rent to anyone selling alcohol in
City Creek Center (which was considered).
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose this rename but I do see a need for a rename in general. First of all 'dry' is unclear to international WP users (dry=arid) and second, less important, 'places' is slightly unclear. For the second issue the alternatives 'populated places' and 'jurisdictions' were proposed in the previous discussion which both seem okay to me. For the first issue, it should probably become something like
Category:Populated places in New Jersey prohibiting sale of alcohol.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support/Open to Broader Proposals The earlier discussion seemed to indicate that "dry" was an unfamiliar term to non-American readers so I'm open to a broader conversation. But, for now, this title is more precise and distinguishes NJ from states where the
local option is at the county level. Would be fine with "jurisdictions" as well if Ocean Grove is a concern to others.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- As an Englishman, I am not familiar with local government arrangements in NJ. However I would oppose "municipalities", because it will generate a converse category, perhaps for "unincorporated places". I am far from sure of the merits of "places that prohibit the sale of alcohol", as it is too verbose. The right place to explain "dry" is in the headnote of the category. I tend towards Keep, but I lack the knowledge to insist.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
13:23, 19 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Albums certified by Musiikkituottajat
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Delete. A successful album will have certificates for many different regions and merely adds to category clutter. Poor Finland, every country should be nominated and the relevant projects notified. --
Richhoncho (
talk)
08:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Stradivari violas
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Rename / don't merge. I've been checking out both categories. Apparently a neighbourhood is a part of a district. Or actually the articles refer to "boroughs" instead of "districts" so I would rather propose to rename the nominated category to
Category:Boroughs of Kristiansand. In fact some other Norwegian cities have a category "Boroughs and neighbourhoods" which should be all right when the number of boroughs and neigbourhoods is too small to make separate categories. But that's not the situation here.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
13:09, 18 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Places of interest in Kristiansand
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Not possible or feasible to define "interest". Strictly speaking, all our articles related to the city Kristiansand should be included here, since a topic has to catch interest (notability) to be included in Wikipedia.
Geschichte (
talk)
21:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Things named after Nnamdi Azikiwe
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Cardiovascular disease deaths
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Delete Looking through these biography categories, it groups people together that have nothing in common outside of dying from a common and non-defining type of death.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
23:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Dry places in New Jersey
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. A CFD for this category was a resounding "keep" last month, and
another was just closed as "keep" a few hours ago, but today's closer specifically noted that there was no consensus regarding the name itself; the first "keep" was consensus against deletion, and the second was against splitting the category into several pieces. I'm just suggesting that we change the name without changing the category's scope. Basically, the name is confusing, because it makes it sound as if this category embraces locations with little rainfall, not locations that
prohibit the sale of alcohol. The previous CFD attracted several people who advocated for "dry jurisdictions" or "dry municipalities"; I'm suggesting "municipalities" because "jurisdictions" can embrace non-municipalities, such as
school districts and entire
counties, which aren't what we're looking for here. While "dry places" could refer to spots without rain, anyone will understand that precipitation doesn't follow municipal boundaries, so even the reader who's never heard this sense of "dry" will understand that it's something unrelated to rainfall. Final note: at the previous CFD, someone noted that
one article in the category wasn't a separate municipality. I've removed this category from the article because it's a different situation: it's a privately owned community, and the landowner prohibits the sale of alcohol. "Dry" in this sense refers to legal jurisdictions of whatever sort that enact laws forbidding alcohol sales, not private owners that choose not to sell it or use contracts and similar
civil law tools to prevent sales on their own property; otherwise we could put most fast-food restaurants in the category too, since they generally don't sell alcohol and don't allow others to sell alcohol on their own grounds.
Nyttend (
talk)
15:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose Rename I'm not sure that "dry municipalities" is any better than "dry towns" or "dry places" in describing places that prohibit the sale of alcohol, not that face persistent drought. The choice of "municipality" seems designed to accomplish nothing in terms of clarity while losing an entry for
Ocean Grove, New Jersey. The community, which is a census-designated place with more than 3,300 residents, was established in 1869 by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association, which still operates the community, setting rules and regulations that have the force of law, including restrictions on the sale of liquor.
This article from The New York Times is one of hundreds available that highlight the fact that the community is dry and it is clear that the non-sale of alcohol is a defining characteristic of the community, which could not possibly be said about a single restaurant that chooses not to have a liquor license or sell alcohol. The community had been incorporated as a municipality in 1920, a status that lasted for a year until it was dissolved by the state courts, and to this day the community maintains an independent status.
This article emphasizes the status of Ocean Grove "as a quasi-independent enclave" that was established under a "special legislative charter [that] allowed the incorporated Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association to retain private ownership of all of the land but operate it as a municipality." Losing the Ocean Grove article in this structure loses the ability to navigate across similar articles by their common defining characteristic.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:57, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
That's a really interesting piece of history near me that I was not aware of but, according to the article, the official theocratic rule ended in 1981. Sources are scared but I'm guessing the church is restricting alcohol now because they own all the land in the town (or in the neighborhood, it's only a 3rd of a square mile) and won't lease it to alcohol merchants. If so, such a private lease restriction is the same as a legal ban, it's more like if the LDS Church decided not to rent to anyone selling alcohol in
City Creek Center (which was considered).
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose this rename but I do see a need for a rename in general. First of all 'dry' is unclear to international WP users (dry=arid) and second, less important, 'places' is slightly unclear. For the second issue the alternatives 'populated places' and 'jurisdictions' were proposed in the previous discussion which both seem okay to me. For the first issue, it should probably become something like
Category:Populated places in New Jersey prohibiting sale of alcohol.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
17:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Support/Open to Broader Proposals The earlier discussion seemed to indicate that "dry" was an unfamiliar term to non-American readers so I'm open to a broader conversation. But, for now, this title is more precise and distinguishes NJ from states where the
local option is at the county level. Would be fine with "jurisdictions" as well if Ocean Grove is a concern to others.
RevelationDirect (
talk)
00:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment -- As an Englishman, I am not familiar with local government arrangements in NJ. However I would oppose "municipalities", because it will generate a converse category, perhaps for "unincorporated places". I am far from sure of the merits of "places that prohibit the sale of alcohol", as it is too verbose. The right place to explain "dry" is in the headnote of the category. I tend towards Keep, but I lack the knowledge to insist.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
13:23, 19 September 2015 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Albums certified by Musiikkituottajat
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete. A successful album will have certificates for many different regions and merely adds to category clutter. Poor Finland, every country should be nominated and the relevant projects notified. --
Richhoncho (
talk)
08:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Stradivari violas
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