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Nominator's rationale:Subjective cat (also arguably non-definining for many); includes a "grab bag" of people, many of whom have little in common. "Criminal justice reform" is a broad concept, sometimes hazily defined. There's also overlap with the narrower (and more objective/specific) cats, such as
Category:Anti–death penalty activists, etc.
Neutralitytalk23:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose because there are several categories, about 12 or more, that use "reformer" which is supposedly subjective. So, why is "criminal justice reformers" different? Maybe some people need to be removed, but deletion is not the remedy. None of the words in this cat are used in "subjective cat" explanation. Please better explain your rationale. Moreover, the death penalty is a very, very narrow category of criminal justice systems.--
JumpLike23(talk)01:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your serious response. But please be specific--just as you want in your categories. How are criminal justice reformers, still more non-defining, subjective and broad than British reformers, Chinese reformers, housing reformers, monetary reformers, vietnamese reformers, etc.? Thanks. --
JumpLike23(talk)06:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Just note our article
Reform defines "reform" as "Reform means the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory, etc." So anyone who proposes, advocates, or votes for any change to the criminal justice system is in
Category:Criminal justice reformers, which makes it useless for over-inclusion, but that's not how the category is used, rather it seems to have purely subjective limitations which are hidden from the user.
Draco (lawgiver) certainly advocated amendment of the criminal justice system, but alas he doesn't seem to meet a modern (kinder, gentler) notion of reformer, so he doesn't get included. Subjectivity at work...
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
17:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Railway stations opened in 2016
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Category:Railway stations opened in 2022
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Regardless the exact name of the category, a distinction is being made between the idea (the proposal) and the start of the implementation of the idea (the construction).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
19:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete -- All three stations are on
Haymarket Line, which is currently the subject of a feasibility study, with a view to construction in 2017 and opening in 2022. All the stations in question at present fail
WP:CRYSTAL and so must the category. The article on the line is probably worth keeping in view of the feasibility study, but that is all.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Former Trustee Royal National Theatre
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Delete -- The basis of this category seems to be that she was a trustee of
Royal Court Theatre, which means that the category is misnamed anyway, but I do not think that theatre is significant enough for trusteeship to be defining.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:25, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Day School
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Nominator's rationale: Incorrect capitalisation (and not plural). No parent categories (indicating that the creator does not understand wp categorisation). Thousands (millions?) of schools would belong in these categories.
WP:DNWAUC. DexDor(talk)05:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete both presumably nearly every school is a day school so looking for other day schools while looking at an article in such category would be unlikely and not useful. As for "mixed school", so many schools these days admit both sexes and are therefore "mixed" (I think this is a neologism for "co-educational" or such, so without reading the category description). I think "mixed" schools had different meanings in the United States before Brown v. Board.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
01:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:People who suffer from Islamophobia
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Category:Singles certified by the Canadian Recording Industry Association
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Strong keep - absurd rationale to exclude these categories (which are populated automatically by the single's performance) but keep other country's chart rankings as categories.
—МандичкаYO 😜
05:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
This should be taken to a centralized discussion, or, yes, all should be nominated. Why should one or two of these be kept over any others? As noted, similar categories have been deleted and consensus is building to suggest that the entire scheme be too. Doing these one country at a time is not productive. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me00:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The prior discussion have been on a country-by-country basis because a single nomination of every single category would be a gigantic mess. This is typcially how changes are done, individualized discussions with subparts and then more and more as time progresses. Otherwise, any centralized discussion would probably need to be at WPT:ALBUMS or WPT:MUSIC or somewhere but may be
WP:MUSIC-reader focused and then we come back to CFD and it's a different view and back and forth or other things. --
Ricky81682 (
talk)
06:19, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The problem by country by country is when you get to US and UK, where participation may be greater and the consensus ends being to keep because a few more parties are interested in the fate of those categories over the Canadian, Mexican, and Australian ones. A centralized discussion can be in the form of an RfD, in which non-music readers can be notified and encouraged to participate. I'm going to say Keep for now since there's no reason for this to exist when others do with a strong recommendation for a centralized discussion. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me15:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Without having an opinion about the content of the discussion, it may be a good idea to add the United States categories to this nomination and to relist the discussion.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - e.g. for
Stolen Dance the level of sales in Canada is a non-defining characteristic. This information should be in the text/tables of the article (and possibly in WikiData). DexDor(talk)18:00, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Chester F.C. templates
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Keep - While a number of templates exist in this category, it makes sense to keep the category so the templates are kept together. –
PeeJay07:03, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Barbary Coast, San Francisco
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Nominator's rationale: This category is ill-defined, too difficult to determine whether a topic falls within it. It is being used as a synonym for "the history of early San Francisco", for "illicit San Francisco", for "weird San Francisco", for "Chinatown, San Francisco", and for "sites that are encountered along the Barbary Coast Trail" (a walking tour of the city.)
Binksternet (
talk)
00:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A lot of the problem comes from the actions of the following accounts and IPs: FriscoKnight who stopped contributing a few months ago,
PDFA who is a brand new single-purpose account, and
107.133.146.243 who has been adding this category for almost a year. A North Carolina IP is also involved:
2602:306:B859:2F30:3573:FA6D:5AB1:C67B. In 2013, a related category was deleted (See
Category:Barbary Coast Trail) which appears to be why the current category is being misused, employed as a replacement for the deleted one. The actions of
99.122.48.32, who added the Trail category, look an awful lot like PDFA and the recent IPs.
So with all the misuse or abuse of this category, it being defined very loosely as "colorful history of early San Francisco", it should be deleted because it is too general.
Binksternet (
talk)
00:31, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
keep The Barbary Coast was a neighborhood in San Francisco as the main article clearly shows. The articles in the category are about the neighborhood and its culture. There is no problem with this category, certainly nothing like mis-described above.
Hmains (
talk)
05:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a reasonably well-defined geographic area, and also an aspect of early SF history (and mythology). Eight of the 14 articles in this category contain "Barbary Coast" in their title. The others all have a meaningful connection to the Barbary Coast: two films set there, two later incarnations of the Barbary Coast, a Barbary Coast saloon owner, and a nearby alley notorious for brothels serving Barbary Coast clients. It all seems pretty functional and valid to me.
Rupert Clayton (
talk)
04:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Nominator's rationale:Subjective cat (also arguably non-definining for many); includes a "grab bag" of people, many of whom have little in common. "Criminal justice reform" is a broad concept, sometimes hazily defined. There's also overlap with the narrower (and more objective/specific) cats, such as
Category:Anti–death penalty activists, etc.
Neutralitytalk23:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose because there are several categories, about 12 or more, that use "reformer" which is supposedly subjective. So, why is "criminal justice reformers" different? Maybe some people need to be removed, but deletion is not the remedy. None of the words in this cat are used in "subjective cat" explanation. Please better explain your rationale. Moreover, the death penalty is a very, very narrow category of criminal justice systems.--
JumpLike23(talk)01:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for your serious response. But please be specific--just as you want in your categories. How are criminal justice reformers, still more non-defining, subjective and broad than British reformers, Chinese reformers, housing reformers, monetary reformers, vietnamese reformers, etc.? Thanks. --
JumpLike23(talk)06:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Just note our article
Reform defines "reform" as "Reform means the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory, etc." So anyone who proposes, advocates, or votes for any change to the criminal justice system is in
Category:Criminal justice reformers, which makes it useless for over-inclusion, but that's not how the category is used, rather it seems to have purely subjective limitations which are hidden from the user.
Draco (lawgiver) certainly advocated amendment of the criminal justice system, but alas he doesn't seem to meet a modern (kinder, gentler) notion of reformer, so he doesn't get included. Subjectivity at work...
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
17:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Railway stations opened in 2016
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Category:Railway stations opened in 2022
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Regardless the exact name of the category, a distinction is being made between the idea (the proposal) and the start of the implementation of the idea (the construction).
Marcocapelle (
talk)
19:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete -- All three stations are on
Haymarket Line, which is currently the subject of a feasibility study, with a view to construction in 2017 and opening in 2022. All the stations in question at present fail
WP:CRYSTAL and so must the category. The article on the line is probably worth keeping in view of the feasibility study, but that is all.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Former Trustee Royal National Theatre
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Delete -- The basis of this category seems to be that she was a trustee of
Royal Court Theatre, which means that the category is misnamed anyway, but I do not think that theatre is significant enough for trusteeship to be defining.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
21:25, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Day School
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Nominator's rationale: Incorrect capitalisation (and not plural). No parent categories (indicating that the creator does not understand wp categorisation). Thousands (millions?) of schools would belong in these categories.
WP:DNWAUC. DexDor(talk)05:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete both presumably nearly every school is a day school so looking for other day schools while looking at an article in such category would be unlikely and not useful. As for "mixed school", so many schools these days admit both sexes and are therefore "mixed" (I think this is a neologism for "co-educational" or such, so without reading the category description). I think "mixed" schools had different meanings in the United States before Brown v. Board.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
01:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:People who suffer from Islamophobia
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Category:Singles certified by the Canadian Recording Industry Association
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Strong keep - absurd rationale to exclude these categories (which are populated automatically by the single's performance) but keep other country's chart rankings as categories.
—МандичкаYO 😜
05:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
This should be taken to a centralized discussion, or, yes, all should be nominated. Why should one or two of these be kept over any others? As noted, similar categories have been deleted and consensus is building to suggest that the entire scheme be too. Doing these one country at a time is not productive. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me00:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The prior discussion have been on a country-by-country basis because a single nomination of every single category would be a gigantic mess. This is typcially how changes are done, individualized discussions with subparts and then more and more as time progresses. Otherwise, any centralized discussion would probably need to be at WPT:ALBUMS or WPT:MUSIC or somewhere but may be
WP:MUSIC-reader focused and then we come back to CFD and it's a different view and back and forth or other things. --
Ricky81682 (
talk)
06:19, 23 August 2015 (UTC)reply
The problem by country by country is when you get to US and UK, where participation may be greater and the consensus ends being to keep because a few more parties are interested in the fate of those categories over the Canadian, Mexican, and Australian ones. A centralized discussion can be in the form of an RfD, in which non-music readers can be notified and encouraged to participate. I'm going to say Keep for now since there's no reason for this to exist when others do with a strong recommendation for a centralized discussion. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me15:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Without having an opinion about the content of the discussion, it may be a good idea to add the United States categories to this nomination and to relist the discussion.
Marcocapelle (
talk)
20:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Delete - e.g. for
Stolen Dance the level of sales in Canada is a non-defining characteristic. This information should be in the text/tables of the article (and possibly in WikiData). DexDor(talk)18:00, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Chester F.C. templates
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Keep - While a number of templates exist in this category, it makes sense to keep the category so the templates are kept together. –
PeeJay07:03, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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Category:Barbary Coast, San Francisco
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Nominator's rationale: This category is ill-defined, too difficult to determine whether a topic falls within it. It is being used as a synonym for "the history of early San Francisco", for "illicit San Francisco", for "weird San Francisco", for "Chinatown, San Francisco", and for "sites that are encountered along the Barbary Coast Trail" (a walking tour of the city.)
Binksternet (
talk)
00:14, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
A lot of the problem comes from the actions of the following accounts and IPs: FriscoKnight who stopped contributing a few months ago,
PDFA who is a brand new single-purpose account, and
107.133.146.243 who has been adding this category for almost a year. A North Carolina IP is also involved:
2602:306:B859:2F30:3573:FA6D:5AB1:C67B. In 2013, a related category was deleted (See
Category:Barbary Coast Trail) which appears to be why the current category is being misused, employed as a replacement for the deleted one. The actions of
99.122.48.32, who added the Trail category, look an awful lot like PDFA and the recent IPs.
So with all the misuse or abuse of this category, it being defined very loosely as "colorful history of early San Francisco", it should be deleted because it is too general.
Binksternet (
talk)
00:31, 17 August 2015 (UTC)reply
keep The Barbary Coast was a neighborhood in San Francisco as the main article clearly shows. The articles in the category are about the neighborhood and its culture. There is no problem with this category, certainly nothing like mis-described above.
Hmains (
talk)
05:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)reply
Keep This is a reasonably well-defined geographic area, and also an aspect of early SF history (and mythology). Eight of the 14 articles in this category contain "Barbary Coast" in their title. The others all have a meaningful connection to the Barbary Coast: two films set there, two later incarnations of the Barbary Coast, a Barbary Coast saloon owner, and a nearby alley notorious for brothels serving Barbary Coast clients. It all seems pretty functional and valid to me.
Rupert Clayton (
talk)
04:52, 20 August 2015 (UTC)reply
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