The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: I don't see any reason why should people be categorized based on their surname. User<Svick>.
Talk(); 23:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete We categorize by families, not by surnames.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:45, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
ListifyTarling (surname) -- I agree with JPL and nom's reasoning. The usual practice is to have a list of people with the surname, a sort of dab-page. In this case, there is none. A WP search indicates that there are a few more to go on it.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Grand-Am drivers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Expand title to match name of the series.
Grand Am is ambiguous and it is easy to miss the dash in the title here.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
weak oppose Not so much because I think that the current name is hugely superior, but because (a) I do not find the name significantly ambiguous, and (b) this would set a precedent for renaming all the other driver categories.
Seyasirt (
talk) 03:08, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Standard naming is to rename to match the article unless there is a significant reason not to. So not seeing it as ambiguous is not a strong reason to not follow the naming convention.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 05:09, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:Rolex Sports Car Series drivers - This is in fact the actual intent of the category, as this is the premier (and one could argue, only professional and, therefore, defining) series that Grand-Am sanctions (you could make a case for the Continental Tire Challenge Series, but that would be needed as a seperate category). Anyway, as this is the actual intent of the category, this should be the target; "Grand Am Road Racing" is the sanctioning body, not the series. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
I have no objection to this option.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 06:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)----reply
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Category:Falkland Islands MLAs 2005–09
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Rename but to
Category:Falkland Islands councillors 2005–09, if that was their title for the majority of the period. A headnote should explain that they became MLAs in 2009 (if that is correct). We do not normally allow categories for councillors, but in this case they were the only legislative body for the islands, so that in this case it should be allowed. However, in a polity with such a small population, being on the governing body ought not per se to confer notability.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:16, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Category:Falkland Islands Councillors 2005–09. These categories are clear duplicates, and there is no need for both. Since we have to choose one title or the other, best to follow Peterkingiron's suggestion and use the title which applied for the majority of their period in office. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 10:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)----reply
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Category:Public philosophers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: The concepts of "public philosophy" and "public philosophers" are undefined, and I suspect nearly meaningless. In any case, they appear to be neologisms.
FreeKnowledgeCreator (
talk) 20:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep. I just created this category a few hours ago and have yet to populate it. It is based on
Category:Public historians which is a category for academics who write books that popularize a discipline, for a general audience, not for other academics in their field. They often are scholars who work outside the system of higher education. It falls under the notion of "public intellectual", scholars who write for books for a popular audience. So, for example,
Ayn Rand is not only a philosopher but what I would call a public intellectual or philosopher because she wrote books for a larger audience than academics.
As far as defining it, well, please give me a day or two to discuss this with
WikiProject Philosophy and see if they accept or reject the new category.
LizRead!Talk! 20:32, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
have any of the people in
Category:Public philosophers, self-identified as a public philosopher, and do reliable sources identify this people this way? Is it a professional category of some kind that's generally recognized? Are there professional journals where these public philosophers publish, do universities have departments of "Public philosophy" etc. If so I'd change my mind. The problems to me seems to be that all sorts of categories will pop up as "Public (whatever) if this becomes a trend. Just my view. I very well be wrong.;)
Soranoch (
talk) 21:24, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nominator, its a recipe for argument and meaningless anyway ----
SnowdedTALK 05:27, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete This is putting the horse before the cart. Until we have a clear definition of the term we can not categorize people by it. Wikipedia is also not the place to create new terms, which this feels a lot like.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:47, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
This isn't a new term. For example, see the results
here. I have no strong opinion on whether it is suitable for a category, but It isn't a neologism. --
RL0919 (
talk) 20:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC) Note: I struck part of my comment that I changed my mind about; see my "Keep" comment below. --
RL0919 (
talk) 19:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete There is no good way to define this category. We have
Category:Philosophy writers which should suffice, but is also being considered for deletion, and it looks like it will. So this situation is a big mess.
Greg Bard (
talk) 20:54, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Merge somewhere.
Category:Philosophy writers might do, but my suggestion on that CFD was that the contents should be distributed into other categories,prior to deletion. The same should apply here.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:19, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep. Having looked into this more, I believe an article on
Public philosophy will be easy to support and have started a
userspace draft of one, which I expect will be in mainspace within a few days. I can't speak for all possible entries in the category, but I was very quickly able to find good quality sources for
Ayn Rand and
Martha Nussbaum being called "public philosopher", and there are others, such as
Jane Addams and
Walter Terence Stace who are called this in their articles but haven't been put in the category yet. --
RL0919 (
talk) 19:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
I was able to find sources pretty quickly to get a viable article going, so I've moved it to mainspace already. The arguments above based on there not being a main article to explain the meaning of the category are no longer valid. --
RL0919 (
talk) 22:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete Public Philosophy is an action performed by Philosophers. It is not in itself a categorical description of a type of philosopher.
Arzel (
talk) 22:49, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of 24.13.244.169
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Nominator's rationale: Empty cat. GregJackPBoomer! 20:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nomination. Category was created in 2007 but remains empty.
Soranoch (
talk) 17:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Moheener Ghoraguli
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Nominator's rationale: Too little content —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 02:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
ArmbrustTheHomunculus 13:32, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete - after creating and relocating members to a members category, I believe that the contents are insufficient for us to need a category for the group. There is an existing template and the articles are linked together through text. See
WP:OC#EPONYMOUS and
WP:OC#SMALL.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 02:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nomination.
Soranoch (
talk) 21:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Comment -- The problem is not with the existence of this category, but with that of two sub-cats, one for albums and another for members; in some cases there may be a third for songs. Might it not be better to upmerge the subcats? I suspect that will raise a howl that the albums cat is also in a wider albums cat. There is no obvious answer to this. Similarly the members will also be in musician categories, with a separate tree.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
There is really nothing more defining of an album than the artist who recorded it, so trying to dismantle that category tree is a non-starter. Similarly for the members of most musical groups their membership is probably their most defining characteristic and the primary source of their notability, so again a non-starter. The better approach IMHO is to try to develop consensus that a rote counting of sub-categories is not the way to determine whether a category named for the band is needed.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 12:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:The Sound of Arrows
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Delete per above and numerous precedent. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 06:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Uncle Tupelo
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Delete per above comments and numerous precedent. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 06:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Works about Michael Moore
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Would it not be more accurate to describe what this category really groups, which are solely works that criticize or ridicule Moore, rather than neutrally explore or 'biographize' him or his work? We do have some other categories which use "critical of," for this reason.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 03:02, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Meh - neutral is better than non-neutral and I don't see a net gain in introducing the
WP:POV-laden "critical of" phrase. Other "critical of" categories should probably also be neutralized but that is beyond the scope of the nomination.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 02:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I personally despise the fellow, but personal opinions are irrelevant on Wikipedia - policy is. And policy is
WP:NPOV. It's entirely possible there are in fact works that provide a positive view of him, in which case we'd either need to re-rename or create new, small categories. Best to maintain neutrality in the first place, because, critical or not, the current names are, in fact, correct, and also more specific (a work about any number of other things could be critical of him without being defined as being about him). -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose Bushranger makes a really good point. Not only would the new name make us have to decide what exactly is "critical" (which works a lot more with philosophies and religions than people), but it would create small categories and might invite inclusion of works that have only a passing mention of Moore.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 00:22, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Comment -- WE have too developed a tree for the content. As far as I can see the works are all films. Delete Works cat. I see no reason to split films and documentary films. Hence merge documentary films to films. That leaves us with films criticising Moore to contrast with films by him. Keep films category: with the present title, it could include a film by someone else supporting his views.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
:* I'm good with this merger/deletion scheme so long as the documentary films remain somewhere within the documentaries categorization scheme.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 13:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Actually, strike that, there's one book in the Works category so everything isn't a film. If that one item is deemed insufficient to sustain the category then go ahead and delete it, though. Still cool with merging the docs and films category, maintaining the docs in the documentary structure.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 20:06, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: I don't see any reason why should people be categorized based on their surname. User<Svick>.
Talk(); 23:52, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete We categorize by families, not by surnames.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:45, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
ListifyTarling (surname) -- I agree with JPL and nom's reasoning. The usual practice is to have a list of people with the surname, a sort of dab-page. In this case, there is none. A WP search indicates that there are a few more to go on it.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:12, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Grand-Am drivers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. Expand title to match name of the series.
Grand Am is ambiguous and it is easy to miss the dash in the title here.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
weak oppose Not so much because I think that the current name is hugely superior, but because (a) I do not find the name significantly ambiguous, and (b) this would set a precedent for renaming all the other driver categories.
Seyasirt (
talk) 03:08, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Standard naming is to rename to match the article unless there is a significant reason not to. So not seeing it as ambiguous is not a strong reason to not follow the naming convention.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 05:09, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Rename to
Category:Rolex Sports Car Series drivers - This is in fact the actual intent of the category, as this is the premier (and one could argue, only professional and, therefore, defining) series that Grand-Am sanctions (you could make a case for the Continental Tire Challenge Series, but that would be needed as a seperate category). Anyway, as this is the actual intent of the category, this should be the target; "Grand Am Road Racing" is the sanctioning body, not the series. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:46, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
I have no objection to this option.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 06:00, 3 November 2013 (UTC)----reply
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Category:Falkland Islands MLAs 2005–09
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Rename but to
Category:Falkland Islands councillors 2005–09, if that was their title for the majority of the period. A headnote should explain that they became MLAs in 2009 (if that is correct). We do not normally allow categories for councillors, but in this case they were the only legislative body for the islands, so that in this case it should be allowed. However, in a polity with such a small population, being on the governing body ought not per se to confer notability.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:16, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Category:Falkland Islands Councillors 2005–09. These categories are clear duplicates, and there is no need for both. Since we have to choose one title or the other, best to follow Peterkingiron's suggestion and use the title which applied for the majority of their period in office. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 10:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)----reply
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Category:Public philosophers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: The concepts of "public philosophy" and "public philosophers" are undefined, and I suspect nearly meaningless. In any case, they appear to be neologisms.
FreeKnowledgeCreator (
talk) 20:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep. I just created this category a few hours ago and have yet to populate it. It is based on
Category:Public historians which is a category for academics who write books that popularize a discipline, for a general audience, not for other academics in their field. They often are scholars who work outside the system of higher education. It falls under the notion of "public intellectual", scholars who write for books for a popular audience. So, for example,
Ayn Rand is not only a philosopher but what I would call a public intellectual or philosopher because she wrote books for a larger audience than academics.
As far as defining it, well, please give me a day or two to discuss this with
WikiProject Philosophy and see if they accept or reject the new category.
LizRead!Talk! 20:32, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
have any of the people in
Category:Public philosophers, self-identified as a public philosopher, and do reliable sources identify this people this way? Is it a professional category of some kind that's generally recognized? Are there professional journals where these public philosophers publish, do universities have departments of "Public philosophy" etc. If so I'd change my mind. The problems to me seems to be that all sorts of categories will pop up as "Public (whatever) if this becomes a trend. Just my view. I very well be wrong.;)
Soranoch (
talk) 21:24, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nominator, its a recipe for argument and meaningless anyway ----
SnowdedTALK 05:27, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete This is putting the horse before the cart. Until we have a clear definition of the term we can not categorize people by it. Wikipedia is also not the place to create new terms, which this feels a lot like.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:47, 28 October 2013 (UTC)reply
This isn't a new term. For example, see the results
here. I have no strong opinion on whether it is suitable for a category, but It isn't a neologism. --
RL0919 (
talk) 20:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC) Note: I struck part of my comment that I changed my mind about; see my "Keep" comment below. --
RL0919 (
talk) 19:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete There is no good way to define this category. We have
Category:Philosophy writers which should suffice, but is also being considered for deletion, and it looks like it will. So this situation is a big mess.
Greg Bard (
talk) 20:54, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Merge somewhere.
Category:Philosophy writers might do, but my suggestion on that CFD was that the contents should be distributed into other categories,prior to deletion. The same should apply here.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:19, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Keep. Having looked into this more, I believe an article on
Public philosophy will be easy to support and have started a
userspace draft of one, which I expect will be in mainspace within a few days. I can't speak for all possible entries in the category, but I was very quickly able to find good quality sources for
Ayn Rand and
Martha Nussbaum being called "public philosopher", and there are others, such as
Jane Addams and
Walter Terence Stace who are called this in their articles but haven't been put in the category yet. --
RL0919 (
talk) 19:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
I was able to find sources pretty quickly to get a viable article going, so I've moved it to mainspace already. The arguments above based on there not being a main article to explain the meaning of the category are no longer valid. --
RL0919 (
talk) 22:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete Public Philosophy is an action performed by Philosophers. It is not in itself a categorical description of a type of philosopher.
Arzel (
talk) 22:49, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of 24.13.244.169
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Empty cat. GregJackPBoomer! 20:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nomination. Category was created in 2007 but remains empty.
Soranoch (
talk) 17:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Moheener Ghoraguli
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Nominator's rationale: Too little content —
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 02:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
ArmbrustTheHomunculus 13:32, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete - after creating and relocating members to a members category, I believe that the contents are insufficient for us to need a category for the group. There is an existing template and the articles are linked together through text. See
WP:OC#EPONYMOUS and
WP:OC#SMALL.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 02:32, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Delete per nomination.
Soranoch (
talk) 21:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Comment -- The problem is not with the existence of this category, but with that of two sub-cats, one for albums and another for members; in some cases there may be a third for songs. Might it not be better to upmerge the subcats? I suspect that will raise a howl that the albums cat is also in a wider albums cat. There is no obvious answer to this. Similarly the members will also be in musician categories, with a separate tree.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
There is really nothing more defining of an album than the artist who recorded it, so trying to dismantle that category tree is a non-starter. Similarly for the members of most musical groups their membership is probably their most defining characteristic and the primary source of their notability, so again a non-starter. The better approach IMHO is to try to develop consensus that a rote counting of sub-categories is not the way to determine whether a category named for the band is needed.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 12:19, 31 October 2013 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:The Sound of Arrows
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete per above and numerous precedent. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 06:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Uncle Tupelo
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Delete per above comments and numerous precedent. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 06:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
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Category:Works about Michael Moore
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Would it not be more accurate to describe what this category really groups, which are solely works that criticize or ridicule Moore, rather than neutrally explore or 'biographize' him or his work? We do have some other categories which use "critical of," for this reason.
Shawn in Montreal (
talk) 03:02, 27 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Meh - neutral is better than non-neutral and I don't see a net gain in introducing the
WP:POV-laden "critical of" phrase. Other "critical of" categories should probably also be neutralized but that is beyond the scope of the nomination.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 02:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I personally despise the fellow, but personal opinions are irrelevant on Wikipedia - policy is. And policy is
WP:NPOV. It's entirely possible there are in fact works that provide a positive view of him, in which case we'd either need to re-rename or create new, small categories. Best to maintain neutrality in the first place, because, critical or not, the current names are, in fact, correct, and also more specific (a work about any number of other things could be critical of him without being defined as being about him). -
The BushrangerOne ping only 18:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Oppose Bushranger makes a really good point. Not only would the new name make us have to decide what exactly is "critical" (which works a lot more with philosophies and religions than people), but it would create small categories and might invite inclusion of works that have only a passing mention of Moore.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 00:22, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Comment -- WE have too developed a tree for the content. As far as I can see the works are all films. Delete Works cat. I see no reason to split films and documentary films. Hence merge documentary films to films. That leaves us with films criticising Moore to contrast with films by him. Keep films category: with the present title, it could include a film by someone else supporting his views.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 12:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
:* I'm good with this merger/deletion scheme so long as the documentary films remain somewhere within the documentaries categorization scheme.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 13:32, 30 October 2013 (UTC)reply
Actually, strike that, there's one book in the Works category so everything isn't a film. If that one item is deemed insufficient to sustain the category then go ahead and delete it, though. Still cool with merging the docs and films category, maintaining the docs in the documentary structure.
Jerry Pepsi (
talk) 20:06, 1 November 2013 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.