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March 14

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep (non-admin closure) Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 11:44, 19 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Category:Men by nationality

Nominator's rationale: Delete. I ran into this when looking for an old pope CfD. So I have to ask. Is nationality by sex defining? If this is deleted, there will be a large number of subcategories impacted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 23:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Athletic DNA players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:32, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Athletic DNA is not a team or a club, it is a brand of clothing, and the category is defined as players who "wear Athletic DNA apparel." We don't categorize people by the products they endorse, or the companies that sponsor them, or the products that they otherwise choose to use. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:CableACE award winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Comic book publishing companies of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic L ondon 19:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
* Propose deleting Category:Korean animation studios ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete with no prejudice against recreation if needed in the future. Currently, these are useless shells for Category:Comic book publishing companies of South Korea and Category:South Korean animation studios. It only makes sense to keep it if we have Category:Comic book publishing companies of North Korea and Category:North Korean animation studios or if we have articles on manhwa publishing companies or Korean animation studios that were active before the 1948 partition. Right now, this isn't the case. Pichpich ( talk) 19:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I was a bit surprised that we don't have a category for North Korean animation studios, since I remembered a hand full of European films and television series outsourced there. After a small search I found that we do have an article on the North Korean SEK Studio. It is misplaced in category "South Korean animation studios", though the article body says otherwise. Any thoughts on the matter? Dimadick ( talk) 16:05, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Good catch. Then I guess I'll retract the second half of my nomination and instead create Category:North Korean animation studios and keep Category:Korean animation studios to hold the North/South categories. Pichpich ( talk) 16:22, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Holding companies of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename to match the actual content of the category. All three members of the category are described in their article as South Korean companies and all three became holding companies after 1948. Given the current regime, North Korean holding companies can't exist, at least for now, and the Korean economy prior to Japanese occupation was not sufficiently developed to sustain true conglomerates. Pichpich ( talk) 19:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bookstores of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename for a number of reasons. First, this is a better reflection of the contents since all these bookstores are South Korean companies. Accordingly, its parent category is Category:Retail companies of South Korea. The other parent is Category:Bookstores by country but currently, there's no country called Korea so using this name in the title would only make sense if the category included companies that operated pre-1948. That's not the case. Pichpich ( talk) 19:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:States of the Southern United States

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 15:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC) reply
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Kew

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename Category:Kew to Category:Kew, London.-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 02:18, 25 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Propose either
Rename to Kew, London
or
Rename to Kew
Nominator's rationale: The head article is at Kew, so Category:People from Kew, London was nominated yesterday for speedy renaming to Category:People from Kew. I opposed this, because Kew is ambiguous: Kew (disambiguation) lists several other places of the same name. Ambiguous category names lead to miscategorisation, which is hard to monitor because the Mediawiki software does not allow monitoring of additions to or removal from categories. That's why there are many cases where an article is judged to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but the eponymous category is disambiguated. An example is Birmingham/ Category:Birmingham, West Midlands.
Whichever option is chosen should be used for both categories. so I have nominated them both as an either/or option. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 16:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Copy of speedy nomination
In every single instance where a head article and its associated categories are at different levels of disambiguation from each other, it's because one or the other is at the wrong level of disambiguation. And that goes for "Birmingham", too; the conflict there has less to do with the situation's actual justifiability and more to do with some of the UK contingent's weirdly persistent belief that a particular place having historically possessed the name before another one did should trump any other disambiguatory consideration (an argument which reached its absolute nadir when it was actually cited as a reason why the primary topic for Boston should be the small village in Lincolnshire rather than the exponentially larger and more internationally famous metropolis in Massachusetts.)
For the record, I have no preference either way, except that they need to be at the same level of disambiguation as each other. If the category has to be at "Kew, London" because of ambiguity issues, then the article has the exact same ambiguity issues and needs to be moved with it; if the article is actually fine at "Kew", then so is the category. There is never a valid reason why an article and its associated categories need to be at different levels of disambiguation from each other; in every single case that has ever been presented — yes, including Birmingham — the actual reality has been that one side or the other was incorrectly assessing how serious the ambiguity actually was. Bearcat ( talk) 22:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic L ondon 19:07, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: I am not aware of any reliable source describing Saint Peter (who was the sole member of this category until I removed him) or anyone else as a "Jewish Pope".
Note that the creator of this category had previosuly created Category:Israeli popes, which was nominated at CFD earlier today, and closed by me as "speedy delete". -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 13:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The source is the Bible, obviously its reliability as a historical text is debatable, but I have nver seen Peters ethnicity described as a controversial fact. Jewish tradition also recognizes Peter as a Jew. Since Peter was from the land of Israel, Israeli popes would be the most appropriate national category, but since this was speed deleted whitout a proper discussion I have created Jewish popes. Most of the apostles - including Peter - were Jewish ie. born Jewish and still Jewish in the ethnic and national sense of the word after becoming Christians (which were not that clearly separated in the early years anyhow). That should not be in any way controversial and I dont know why BrownHairedGirl think it is. Why is it so bad to have Peter listed with his ethnicity/nationality when all the other popes are categorised in this way? We also have Argentinian popes despite there is only one in this cateory, so the sheer number can not be a relevant criteria.-- Orakologen ( talk) 14:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Reply. a) The bible does not include the word Pope, so it cannot be a source for claiming that Peter was a "Jewish Pope", other than by WP:SYNthesis, which is not allowed. b) The Bible is a primary source, but Wikipedia uses reliable secondary sources.
If you have a reliable secondary source, please identify it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
So if Peter was a Jew and Peter was a pope you cant combine those two simple facts and say he was a Jewish Pope?? That doesnt make sense. Its taking the generally sensible synthesis rule into the land of absurdity. Anyway what about Israelitic Popes?
Dictionary definition:
Is·ra·el·ite (zr--lt)
n.
1. A native or inhabitant of the ancient Northern Kingdom of Israel.
2. A descendant of Jacob; a Jew.
3. A member of a people regarded as the chosen people of God.
4. A Jew not descended from the tribe of Levi and not a priest.
Peter fits the last three and was born in the area covered by the first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orakologen ( talk • contribs) 15:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Reply That's all WP:SYNthesis. If you have a reliable secondary source for your claim that Peter was an "Israeli pope"/"Israelitic pope"/"Jewish pope"/ whatever, then please identify it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:54, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
ReplyThat doesnt make any sense. We have plenty of Italian popes at a time where Italy didnt exist as a state. Syrian based only on coming from that area. African used for Berbers who are not ethnically African in the modern sense and with dubious sources. Why this double standard? And how about providing an alternative description. He was listed as "Syrian" for a long time without anybody complaining about it. Jewish descent and Jewish is the same in this context. If he was of Jewish descent (born Jewish) he is ethnically Jewish. If your definition is this narrow all popes before modern states developing in Europe past 1648 should not be categorized based on nationality.-- Orakologen ( talk) 18:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
That's an even worse idea. That article is currently in no Pope categories, and I doubt you could get consensus to put it in any pope categories. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:36, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
It could comfortably fit into Category:Legendary popes together with Pope Joan. DGtal ( talk) 06:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- The one article relates to an early Bishop of Rome (from before that see became the universal primate), of Hellenic Jewish descent, and at a period when being a Jewish Christian was not necessarily unusual. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for various reasons - I'm perfectly happy with Peter being a Jewish Pope, but he seems to be the only one (so far), so "small and unlikely to expand", although everything we know about Early Christianity suggests other early Popes were probably converts from Judaism or descendants of converts, but the minimal to non-existent biographical details we have don't inform us about this, except for Pope Evaristus, according to a much later source. Jewish pope Andreas would have to go in Category:Fictional Jewish popes since he is clearly not historical - are there others for that I wonder? Plus of course it isn't a nationality. The note at Category:Popes by nationality covers Peter adequately. Johnbod ( talk) 03:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Comment It is absurd that a religious Jew would become Pope but I don't know if anyone but saint Peter was a racial Jew who converted. If we have another racially Jewish Pope, we should probably keep it but if not delete it. >> M.P.Schneider,LC ( parlemus • feci) 17:13, 9 April 2013 (UTC) reply

But we explicitly say we do not categorize by race, and we currently categoize Popes by nationality, not ethnicity. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:46, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Undersized stub category that I would expect to see gradually further depopulate as articles bypass stub status. Keep template for now, but upmerge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. Dawynn ( talk) 12:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Star Trek episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep category, but delete the 2 templates: {{ StarTrek-TNG-episode-stub}} and {{ StarTrek-TOS-episode-stub}}. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:25, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete empty templates. For this, the category itself is fine for the time being. But some of the templates have lost their usefulness. Templates {{ StarTrek-TNG-episode-stub}} and {{ StarTrek-TOS-episode-stub}} should be deleted. All episodes for these two discontinued shows have individual articles that have passed stub status. Dawynn ( talk) 12:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Star Trek: Voyager episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:19, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Most of the current articles have bypassed stub status. As the series has been discontinued, new articles will not be needed. Propose deleting category, and using {{ StarTrek-episode-stub}} to retag any true stub articles currently tagged with {{ StarTrek-Voyager-episode-stub}}. Dawynn ( talk) 12:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Seasons in European football by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic L ondon 18:57, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category contains sub-categories where each category, i.e. Category:2001–02 in European football by country contains "2001–02 in Fooian football" in addition to "2001 in Fooian football" and "2002 in Fooian football" (for those countries with a spring-autumn season) for most European countries. First off, the name is incorrect. This category is Category:Years in association football in Europe by country or something similar, as "European football" refers to the competition arranged by UEFA. I believe this category-tree (with all it's sub-cats) should be upmerged to Category:Years in association football by country. If this category tree should still exist, it should be a sub-cat of Category:Years in association football by country and renamed so that it doesn't look like we are talking about UEFA-competitions. Mentoz86 ( talk) 09:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related discussions. Mentoz86 ( talk) 09:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Nazi collaborators

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. The only concern expressed relates to Austria, where the history raises some special issues. However, there is no Austrian category in this nomination, so that interesting point doesn't alter the outcome here. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:23, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename for clarity (ie are these Fooian Nazis that collaborated, or Fooians that collaborated with Nazi Germany?), and consistency with the parent Category: Collaborators with Nazi Germany. Also the subcategories such as Category:Serbian Nazi collaborators renamed in the form Category:Serbian collaborators with Nazi Germany so that they are consistent with Category:Serbian collaborators with Fascist Italy. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 08:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Interesting you should make that observation Jpl. I note that the Latvian and Ukrainian ones are subcats of the Soviet one, likewise with the Slovak and Czech ones being subcats of the Czechoslovak one. If this renaming is successful, the next step would probably be to CfD the ahistorical ones. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 10:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The Ukrainian and Latvian nationalities still existed, even when they were ruled by the Soviets. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Let's not get into the nationalities vs ethnicities issue in this CfD. This CfD merely looks to rename these cats more accurately per WP:CAT. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 09:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Nazi Germany included Austria between March 1938 and 1945. If there are people that collaborated with the Austrian DNSAP prior to March 1938 then they might need their own category. Are there any non-Austrians you are aware of that collaborated with the DNSAP prior to the Anchluss? Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 07:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jesuit popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. IMHO Category:Jesuits and the other new parent "by religious order" satisfy the requirement in SMALLCAT for this to be kept. There were 3 more votes for deletion at Category talk:Jesuit popes but the writers probably did not see the discussion here. – Fayenatic L ondon 18:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For the foreseeable future there is only one conceivable entry. — teb728 t c 07:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This is very encyclopedic. I searched hard for this information yesterday right after the election. With this, we'll be ready for the users that will want to know, many years from now when another Jesuit pope is elected, "How many other Jesuit popes have there been?", or who will want to know that tomorrow, having heard that Francis is a Jesuit bot not having heard that he is the first. If we can have category "Dutch popes" with one article, we can have this one as well. Chris the speller  yack 16:11, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. In addition to the above, the guidelines for keeping categories requires only that they be populated. The number of listings is irrelevant. Daniel the Monk ( talk) 16:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Wrong, see WP:SMALLCAT, part of WP:OCAT, though this has exceptions which may apply here. Johnbod ( talk) 03:24, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Argentine popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For the foreseeable future there is only one conceivable entry. — teb728 t c 07:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Wonky Pop acts

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: split. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:05, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Per all kinds of other categories by musical genre--none of them are named "[x] acts" — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 05:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Goodness me! Delete that, it's disgusting! Florence and the Machine classed as "wonky pop"? What the hell? Who comes up with these things? -- 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 06:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Universalism stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Stub categories should be proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: It looks like this was created unilaterally and there is usually a high bar for creating stub types. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 04:59, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
I am the one that created this template. I created it because I thought it would be useful. If I should have followed a particular Wikipedia process before creating it I was unaware of that process. If there is indeed a recommended Wikipedia process that I should have followed I would be wiling to have this template be deleted, so long as it can then be submitted to this process to determine whether or not it merits creation or not. -- Devin Murphy ( talk) 16:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Israeli popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy delete per WP:CSD#C1. No, this has not been empty for 4 days, but there is nothing with which to populate it, so it will remain empty. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 05:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Reason: Useless category with no entries. Thanks. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 04:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply

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Category:Lists of songs by reality television contestants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Include 'various' to separate the list of songs by multiple contestants of a reality show from the list of songs recorded by single reality television contestants such as Girls Aloud, Kelly Clarkson etc. -- ⊾maine12329⊿ talk 02:59, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Pope Francis

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Favonian ( talk) 06:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Only one entry. Categories are for multiple entries, not just any willy-nilly famous person. And yes, I'm aware that this the pope but that's not the point. There are dozens of popes without their own category. People are not awarded categories on the basis of how famous they are or how much they have achieved. 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 02:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Actually that is the one article. It's the only additional one. The other is the main article and the other entry is a template which ridiculously only has those two on it. -- 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 06:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Yeah, and 1+1=2 articles. What am I missing here? Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:56, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Jpl. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 06:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment based on the writings section in the article on Pope Francis, he has written 11 books. I would suspect that now that he is pope at least some of these works will come to be considered notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Pope Francis is a single person not a category of things. Furorimpius ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Two articles is enough to warrant a category. So far we have Pope Francis and Papal conclave, 2013. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/) [1] 20:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Since when have two articles been enough to warrant an entire category? Pope Francis is the title article - are you suggesting that categories are or should be in existence for every article that has one more related article? That would create infinite numbers of virtually empty categories. -- 86.40.107.73 ( talk) 14:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • It's my fault, but that's not what I meant at all. As the current paradigm stands, this category will need to be created eventually. I don't think anyone is arguing against that (meaning they are arguing against the paradigm itself OR arguing against the early creation of this category). The comment I made above is a reason to not delete this category for being created too early. Two articles makes it have a use in the present. I didn't mean to apply it to every single possiblity, only this one. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/) [1] 16:56, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. As Pope Francis performs more actions as pope, there will be many articles written that relate to him. Notable trips, important policy statements, etc. should all carry this category. Andrew 327 20:34, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. Pope Francis is a pope, meaning there will eventually be quite a few pages relating to him, and his papacy. if you stop and think for a bit, remember that he was 'just' elected yesterday (as of CST), so of course there are not many articles pertaining to him or his papacy yet, he has only been pope for a day now. rather than waiting until we have a dozen or more articles needing to be added to the category, the category has been created to prepare for future articles. remember the 6 P's: Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance; or in this case it prevents having to go and hunt down a bunch of articles later; instead, the articles can be categorized as they are created. Aunva6 ( talk) 00:33, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • I believe that the argument of those in favour of deletion is that since he has only been pope for a day now, there is currently not enough content to justify creation of a category. Some argue that we should "prepare" and create categories that we anticipate will be needed; others argue that we "wait" and only create them when they are actually needed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The "delete because it isn't populated now but might be later" argument only applies if it's actually a case of might be. A reasonable person can assume that this category will be populated, likely extensively; it also forms part of what is likely an established category tree per the WP:SMALLCAT exemption, per Closeapple's mentions of other pope-by-name categories above, only needing the creation of Category:Popes by name to head it. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. Clearly an useful and perspective category. -- ŠJů ( talk) 11:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • How? There is only the conclave article. It will not easily get lost - it's linked in the lead section of Pope Francis. -- 86.40.107.73 ( talk) 14:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • per WP:SMALLCAT,

        "a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time."

        Aunva6 ( talk) 03:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
        • That criterion refers to situations where we already know the category's ultimate population prospects, not situations where we have to speculate about them (or to eponymous categories). For example, if Cityville is a large enough city that its mayors would generally be deemed to qualify for articles just for being mayors, then a category for "Mayors of Cityville" can be created even if nobody has actually started articles about anyone prior to the current incumbent yet — but it does not justify creating "Mayors of Palookatown" alongside it, if Palookatown is a small town whose mayors would not qualify just for being mayors. It has nothing to do with this situation; the category's population prospects are strictly speculative at best, because for example he could entirely fail to accomplish anything that would ever warrant a separate article of its own, or even die of a heart attack tomorrow and thus not even have the opportunity to even attempt to accomplish anything that would warrant a separate article of its own. We don't permit small categories on the presumption that they'll probably be expandable in the future; we create and allow categories when we (a) already need them because the articles already exist, (b) already know that the difference between a small category and a fully populated one consists of topics that are already known and just haven't actually been written yet. If you can't point to a precise list of who or what the unwritten topics are already known to be, then this criterion does not apply. And also, the criterion says that the category in question may be kept; it does not say that the category must be kept. Bearcat ( talk) 20:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep yes, it's almost ridiculously small for the time being but there's no sense in deleting a category when we are absolutely certain that we'll need to recreate it in the not so distant future. There are bound to be articles on some of his works and his biography will soon grow too large and parts will be spun off. An eponymous category is not an award, it's a pragmatic solution to ease navigation between articles on a common topic so the "he's undeserving" argument misses the point entirely. Pichpich ( talk) 17:19, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as per above. It's true that this category is not so populated but very soon after, this category will be populated by pages related to him for his papacy. Like what Pichpich raised, his biography will grow and if ever, it will have a separate article like Early life of Pope Francis like that. Mediran ( t • c) 01:50, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Also as per the nominator said, if his concern was just because dozens of popes doesn't have their own category, then nominate and delete also Category:Pope Benedict XVI and Category:Pope John Paul II. We doesn't have categories about dozen of popes becaus they have lived many many many many years ago and we have little knowledge about them. That's why their WP articles are stub and if we're talking about the recent and the current popes, we have now more knowledge about them because we lived in their time. Also, categories are not awards or merits, it's a categorization of articles related to a certain subject that have a good scope and Pope Francis will be. Did you folks get what I mean? Thanks :) Mediran ( t • c) 01:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • So other stuff exists - why would the Benedict and John Paul categories be deleted when they are sufficiently populated? Several days have passed now since this pope came to prominence. There was a marked interest in him for a while but that is gradually dying down - he is not in the news headlines as much as the first day, there are some trivial asides now like the childhood sweetheart who led to where he is, and gasp, shock, horror, he has only one lung says another (as many more besides have only one lung), etc. In that time the Pope Francis article has been fleshed out. However, there has been absolutely no sign of anything else being created - and, barring someone creating a hurried weak one sentence stub deliberately to disprove that point ( Lung of Pope Francis anyone?), there is no sign of any change in that regard. The fact remains there is still a category with no meaningful separate content to put in it apart from the conclave. -- 86.40.98.160 ( talk) 10:47, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
        • WP:SMALLCAT. again, we don't need sourcing and fact for every little thing we do on wikipedia. articles need sourcing and fact, but wikipedia policy and even waht is added to article, as well as what articles are kept or deleted, are almost entirely defined by consensus. the fact that a cat currently has few articles is not a reason to delete it if there is a reasonable expectation that it will grow significantly. consensus appears to be that the expectation that the category will grow are reasonable. Aunva6 ( talk) 17:08, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
          • Again, WP:SMALLCAT's "reasonable growth" exemption only applies if you can already name the gaps (e.g. 100 people have already held X job and are all notable enough for articles, but for whatever reason only two of them have actually gotten written about so far.) It does not apply to situations where the potential for growth is strictly speculative in nature. Bearcat ( talk) 23:43, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment well we have now had a third entry with the article on the Jesuit institution where Pope Francis was educated, and it is likely we will soon have articles on some of the books he has written, so I think it is clear that it has potential to grow to a reasonable size, even in the extremely unlikely event that Pope Francis dies while I am typing this. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The category now has 5 articles (I added biography and biographer) and may continue growing. Cambalachero ( talk) 02:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, the category has 7 articles now. -- Funandtrvl ( talk) 16:33, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep -- Since we have categories for other popes, we will need this one soon, even if strictly we may not do so yet. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:34, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, it's reasonable to think the category may grow. -- NaBUru38 ( talk) 18:32, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Note: WP:SMALLCAT, which has been cited in this discussion, was modified in the middle of this discussion; I've changed it back. See Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#Unusually-specifically-targeted small category guideline clarifications for more information and/or discussion about the guideline. -- Closeapple ( talk) 00:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I was going to continue the W. H. Harrison discussion, but could not find it. As it stands, we probably would have a category on Harrison even if he had died in 1830 before running for the presidency, at least everything we have in his category would still apply. On this matter, we have nine articles, and at least one that was in the category has been removed. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Croatian Nazis

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category was created on 14 March 2013 and is factually incorrect. The people in this category were Croatian Ustaše (which was a fascist organisation that ruled an Axis puppet state during WWII), and were not members of the German NSDAP. Category:Ustaše already exists and is the appropriate category for these people. The subcategory of Category:Croatian Nazi collaborators needs renaming, but I will address this separately, as there are other "X Naxi collaborators" categories that need changing too. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 01:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Illegitimate children of popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. If there are any articles on legitimate children of Popes, they can be placed in a new Category:Children of popes, which should be a parent of this category. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:32, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename. The "illegitimate" is not necessary in this context, particularly as there is no possibility of confusion with other types of children. It also may be derogatory, particularly right now, with the likelihood that some of the contents of this category may be currently living people. 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 00:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
List of sexually active Popes identifies at least six legitimate children of Popes, and also shows that tradition idnetifies Saint Petronilla as having been the legitimate daughter of Simon Peter, the first Pope according to Catholic tradiont. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • The question remains. A small number of popes have had a small number of children. So small is the number why do they need to be split into legitimate and illegitimate? Why not one category called Category:Children of popes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.200.32 ( talk • contribs)
    • I have already mentioned one possible reason. This category is within the Category:Illegitimate children of monarchs tree. It's not absolutely necessary to keep popes' illegitimate children in a subcategory within this tree, but if a user wants to keep them within this tree as a subcategory, it is a reason to oppose the renaming. Also, if considerations turn to whether we should have both—we don't generally categorize people by what position their parent held. An exception is the illegitimate children of monarchs tree. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Supercategorize with the suggested category, the current becoming a subcategory of it, allowing categorization into the illegitimate tree, and the standard tree. -- 65.92.180.137 ( talk) 04:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose per Good Ol'Factory's comments. We don't randomly lop one branch off an established category tree without very good reason. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:54, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment -- Since for the last 1000+ years, no pope is supposed to have married, the children will necessarily be illegitimate; accordingly, it must be the same as Category:Children of popes. I suspect that the children were is fact usually passed off as nephews or nieces. There is a good reason for having an illegitimate category for monarch's children, because they cannot inherit the crown. We may also need a morganatic children category for them (children or marriages with commoners who could not inherit the crown). That issue does not arise in respect of an elective monarchy such as the papacy. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:40, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_March_14&oldid=1136462788"
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< March 13 March 15 >

March 14

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep (non-admin closure) Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 11:44, 19 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Category:Men by nationality

Nominator's rationale: Delete. I ran into this when looking for an old pope CfD. So I have to ask. Is nationality by sex defining? If this is deleted, there will be a large number of subcategories impacted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 23:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Athletic DNA players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:32, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Athletic DNA is not a team or a club, it is a brand of clothing, and the category is defined as players who "wear Athletic DNA apparel." We don't categorize people by the products they endorse, or the companies that sponsor them, or the products that they otherwise choose to use. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:CableACE award winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Comic book publishing companies of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic L ondon 19:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
* Propose deleting Category:Korean animation studios ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete with no prejudice against recreation if needed in the future. Currently, these are useless shells for Category:Comic book publishing companies of South Korea and Category:South Korean animation studios. It only makes sense to keep it if we have Category:Comic book publishing companies of North Korea and Category:North Korean animation studios or if we have articles on manhwa publishing companies or Korean animation studios that were active before the 1948 partition. Right now, this isn't the case. Pichpich ( talk) 19:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I was a bit surprised that we don't have a category for North Korean animation studios, since I remembered a hand full of European films and television series outsourced there. After a small search I found that we do have an article on the North Korean SEK Studio. It is misplaced in category "South Korean animation studios", though the article body says otherwise. Any thoughts on the matter? Dimadick ( talk) 16:05, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Good catch. Then I guess I'll retract the second half of my nomination and instead create Category:North Korean animation studios and keep Category:Korean animation studios to hold the North/South categories. Pichpich ( talk) 16:22, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Holding companies of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename to match the actual content of the category. All three members of the category are described in their article as South Korean companies and all three became holding companies after 1948. Given the current regime, North Korean holding companies can't exist, at least for now, and the Korean economy prior to Japanese occupation was not sufficiently developed to sustain true conglomerates. Pichpich ( talk) 19:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Bookstores of Korea

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename for a number of reasons. First, this is a better reflection of the contents since all these bookstores are South Korean companies. Accordingly, its parent category is Category:Retail companies of South Korea. The other parent is Category:Bookstores by country but currently, there's no country called Korea so using this name in the title would only make sense if the category included companies that operated pre-1948. That's not the case. Pichpich ( talk) 19:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:States of the Southern United States

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The result of the discussion was: delete.-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 15:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC) reply
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Kew

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename Category:Kew to Category:Kew, London.-- Mike Selinker ( talk) 02:18, 25 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Propose either
Rename to Kew, London
or
Rename to Kew
Nominator's rationale: The head article is at Kew, so Category:People from Kew, London was nominated yesterday for speedy renaming to Category:People from Kew. I opposed this, because Kew is ambiguous: Kew (disambiguation) lists several other places of the same name. Ambiguous category names lead to miscategorisation, which is hard to monitor because the Mediawiki software does not allow monitoring of additions to or removal from categories. That's why there are many cases where an article is judged to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but the eponymous category is disambiguated. An example is Birmingham/ Category:Birmingham, West Midlands.
Whichever option is chosen should be used for both categories. so I have nominated them both as an either/or option. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 16:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Copy of speedy nomination
In every single instance where a head article and its associated categories are at different levels of disambiguation from each other, it's because one or the other is at the wrong level of disambiguation. And that goes for "Birmingham", too; the conflict there has less to do with the situation's actual justifiability and more to do with some of the UK contingent's weirdly persistent belief that a particular place having historically possessed the name before another one did should trump any other disambiguatory consideration (an argument which reached its absolute nadir when it was actually cited as a reason why the primary topic for Boston should be the small village in Lincolnshire rather than the exponentially larger and more internationally famous metropolis in Massachusetts.)
For the record, I have no preference either way, except that they need to be at the same level of disambiguation as each other. If the category has to be at "Kew, London" because of ambiguity issues, then the article has the exact same ambiguity issues and needs to be moved with it; if the article is actually fine at "Kew", then so is the category. There is never a valid reason why an article and its associated categories need to be at different levels of disambiguation from each other; in every single case that has ever been presented — yes, including Birmingham — the actual reality has been that one side or the other was incorrectly assessing how serious the ambiguity actually was. Bearcat ( talk) 22:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Jewish popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic L ondon 19:07, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: I am not aware of any reliable source describing Saint Peter (who was the sole member of this category until I removed him) or anyone else as a "Jewish Pope".
Note that the creator of this category had previosuly created Category:Israeli popes, which was nominated at CFD earlier today, and closed by me as "speedy delete". -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 13:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The source is the Bible, obviously its reliability as a historical text is debatable, but I have nver seen Peters ethnicity described as a controversial fact. Jewish tradition also recognizes Peter as a Jew. Since Peter was from the land of Israel, Israeli popes would be the most appropriate national category, but since this was speed deleted whitout a proper discussion I have created Jewish popes. Most of the apostles - including Peter - were Jewish ie. born Jewish and still Jewish in the ethnic and national sense of the word after becoming Christians (which were not that clearly separated in the early years anyhow). That should not be in any way controversial and I dont know why BrownHairedGirl think it is. Why is it so bad to have Peter listed with his ethnicity/nationality when all the other popes are categorised in this way? We also have Argentinian popes despite there is only one in this cateory, so the sheer number can not be a relevant criteria.-- Orakologen ( talk) 14:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Reply. a) The bible does not include the word Pope, so it cannot be a source for claiming that Peter was a "Jewish Pope", other than by WP:SYNthesis, which is not allowed. b) The Bible is a primary source, but Wikipedia uses reliable secondary sources.
If you have a reliable secondary source, please identify it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
So if Peter was a Jew and Peter was a pope you cant combine those two simple facts and say he was a Jewish Pope?? That doesnt make sense. Its taking the generally sensible synthesis rule into the land of absurdity. Anyway what about Israelitic Popes?
Dictionary definition:
Is·ra·el·ite (zr--lt)
n.
1. A native or inhabitant of the ancient Northern Kingdom of Israel.
2. A descendant of Jacob; a Jew.
3. A member of a people regarded as the chosen people of God.
4. A Jew not descended from the tribe of Levi and not a priest.
Peter fits the last three and was born in the area covered by the first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orakologen ( talk • contribs) 15:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Reply That's all WP:SYNthesis. If you have a reliable secondary source for your claim that Peter was an "Israeli pope"/"Israelitic pope"/"Jewish pope"/ whatever, then please identify it. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:54, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
ReplyThat doesnt make any sense. We have plenty of Italian popes at a time where Italy didnt exist as a state. Syrian based only on coming from that area. African used for Berbers who are not ethnically African in the modern sense and with dubious sources. Why this double standard? And how about providing an alternative description. He was listed as "Syrian" for a long time without anybody complaining about it. Jewish descent and Jewish is the same in this context. If he was of Jewish descent (born Jewish) he is ethnically Jewish. If your definition is this narrow all popes before modern states developing in Europe past 1648 should not be categorized based on nationality.-- Orakologen ( talk) 18:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
That's an even worse idea. That article is currently in no Pope categories, and I doubt you could get consensus to put it in any pope categories. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:36, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
It could comfortably fit into Category:Legendary popes together with Pope Joan. DGtal ( talk) 06:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- The one article relates to an early Bishop of Rome (from before that see became the universal primate), of Hellenic Jewish descent, and at a period when being a Jewish Christian was not necessarily unusual. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for various reasons - I'm perfectly happy with Peter being a Jewish Pope, but he seems to be the only one (so far), so "small and unlikely to expand", although everything we know about Early Christianity suggests other early Popes were probably converts from Judaism or descendants of converts, but the minimal to non-existent biographical details we have don't inform us about this, except for Pope Evaristus, according to a much later source. Jewish pope Andreas would have to go in Category:Fictional Jewish popes since he is clearly not historical - are there others for that I wonder? Plus of course it isn't a nationality. The note at Category:Popes by nationality covers Peter adequately. Johnbod ( talk) 03:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Comment It is absurd that a religious Jew would become Pope but I don't know if anyone but saint Peter was a racial Jew who converted. If we have another racially Jewish Pope, we should probably keep it but if not delete it. >> M.P.Schneider,LC ( parlemus • feci) 17:13, 9 April 2013 (UTC) reply

But we explicitly say we do not categorize by race, and we currently categoize Popes by nationality, not ethnicity. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:46, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Undersized stub category that I would expect to see gradually further depopulate as articles bypass stub status. Keep template for now, but upmerge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. Dawynn ( talk) 12:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Star Trek episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep category, but delete the 2 templates: {{ StarTrek-TNG-episode-stub}} and {{ StarTrek-TOS-episode-stub}}. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:25, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete empty templates. For this, the category itself is fine for the time being. But some of the templates have lost their usefulness. Templates {{ StarTrek-TNG-episode-stub}} and {{ StarTrek-TOS-episode-stub}} should be deleted. All episodes for these two discontinued shows have individual articles that have passed stub status. Dawynn ( talk) 12:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
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Category:Star Trek: Voyager episode stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Star Trek episode stubs. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 19:19, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Most of the current articles have bypassed stub status. As the series has been discontinued, new articles will not be needed. Propose deleting category, and using {{ StarTrek-episode-stub}} to retag any true stub articles currently tagged with {{ StarTrek-Voyager-episode-stub}}. Dawynn ( talk) 12:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Seasons in European football by country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic L ondon 18:57, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category contains sub-categories where each category, i.e. Category:2001–02 in European football by country contains "2001–02 in Fooian football" in addition to "2001 in Fooian football" and "2002 in Fooian football" (for those countries with a spring-autumn season) for most European countries. First off, the name is incorrect. This category is Category:Years in association football in Europe by country or something similar, as "European football" refers to the competition arranged by UEFA. I believe this category-tree (with all it's sub-cats) should be upmerged to Category:Years in association football by country. If this category tree should still exist, it should be a sub-cat of Category:Years in association football by country and renamed so that it doesn't look like we are talking about UEFA-competitions. Mentoz86 ( talk) 09:53, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related discussions. Mentoz86 ( talk) 09:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Nazi collaborators

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. The only concern expressed relates to Austria, where the history raises some special issues. However, there is no Austrian category in this nomination, so that interesting point doesn't alter the outcome here. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:23, 22 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename for clarity (ie are these Fooian Nazis that collaborated, or Fooians that collaborated with Nazi Germany?), and consistency with the parent Category: Collaborators with Nazi Germany. Also the subcategories such as Category:Serbian Nazi collaborators renamed in the form Category:Serbian collaborators with Nazi Germany so that they are consistent with Category:Serbian collaborators with Fascist Italy. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 08:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Interesting you should make that observation Jpl. I note that the Latvian and Ukrainian ones are subcats of the Soviet one, likewise with the Slovak and Czech ones being subcats of the Czechoslovak one. If this renaming is successful, the next step would probably be to CfD the ahistorical ones. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 10:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The Ukrainian and Latvian nationalities still existed, even when they were ruled by the Soviets. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Let's not get into the nationalities vs ethnicities issue in this CfD. This CfD merely looks to rename these cats more accurately per WP:CAT. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 09:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Nazi Germany included Austria between March 1938 and 1945. If there are people that collaborated with the Austrian DNSAP prior to March 1938 then they might need their own category. Are there any non-Austrians you are aware of that collaborated with the DNSAP prior to the Anchluss? Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 07:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jesuit popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. IMHO Category:Jesuits and the other new parent "by religious order" satisfy the requirement in SMALLCAT for this to be kept. There were 3 more votes for deletion at Category talk:Jesuit popes but the writers probably did not see the discussion here. – Fayenatic L ondon 18:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For the foreseeable future there is only one conceivable entry. — teb728 t c 07:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This is very encyclopedic. I searched hard for this information yesterday right after the election. With this, we'll be ready for the users that will want to know, many years from now when another Jesuit pope is elected, "How many other Jesuit popes have there been?", or who will want to know that tomorrow, having heard that Francis is a Jesuit bot not having heard that he is the first. If we can have category "Dutch popes" with one article, we can have this one as well. Chris the speller  yack 16:11, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. In addition to the above, the guidelines for keeping categories requires only that they be populated. The number of listings is irrelevant. Daniel the Monk ( talk) 16:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Wrong, see WP:SMALLCAT, part of WP:OCAT, though this has exceptions which may apply here. Johnbod ( talk) 03:24, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Argentine popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: For the foreseeable future there is only one conceivable entry. — teb728 t c 07:22, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wonky Pop acts

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: split. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:05, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Per all kinds of other categories by musical genre--none of them are named "[x] acts" — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 05:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Goodness me! Delete that, it's disgusting! Florence and the Machine classed as "wonky pop"? What the hell? Who comes up with these things? -- 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 06:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Universalism stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Stub categories should be proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:55, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: It looks like this was created unilaterally and there is usually a high bar for creating stub types. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 04:59, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
I am the one that created this template. I created it because I thought it would be useful. If I should have followed a particular Wikipedia process before creating it I was unaware of that process. If there is indeed a recommended Wikipedia process that I should have followed I would be wiling to have this template be deleted, so long as it can then be submitted to this process to determine whether or not it merits creation or not. -- Devin Murphy ( talk) 16:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Israeli popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy delete per WP:CSD#C1. No, this has not been empty for 4 days, but there is nothing with which to populate it, so it will remain empty. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 05:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply

Reason: Useless category with no entries. Thanks. -- Rangeblock victim ( talk) 04:19, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lists of songs by reality television contestants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep. Jafeluv ( talk) 09:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Include 'various' to separate the list of songs by multiple contestants of a reality show from the list of songs recorded by single reality television contestants such as Girls Aloud, Kelly Clarkson etc. -- ⊾maine12329⊿ talk 02:59, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pope Francis

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Favonian ( talk) 06:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Only one entry. Categories are for multiple entries, not just any willy-nilly famous person. And yes, I'm aware that this the pope but that's not the point. There are dozens of popes without their own category. People are not awarded categories on the basis of how famous they are or how much they have achieved. 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 02:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Actually that is the one article. It's the only additional one. The other is the main article and the other entry is a template which ridiculously only has those two on it. -- 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 06:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Yeah, and 1+1=2 articles. What am I missing here? Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:56, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Jpl. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 06:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment based on the writings section in the article on Pope Francis, he has written 11 books. I would suspect that now that he is pope at least some of these works will come to be considered notable. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Pope Francis is a single person not a category of things. Furorimpius ( talk) 19:18, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Two articles is enough to warrant a category. So far we have Pope Francis and Papal conclave, 2013. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/) [1] 20:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Since when have two articles been enough to warrant an entire category? Pope Francis is the title article - are you suggesting that categories are or should be in existence for every article that has one more related article? That would create infinite numbers of virtually empty categories. -- 86.40.107.73 ( talk) 14:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • It's my fault, but that's not what I meant at all. As the current paradigm stands, this category will need to be created eventually. I don't think anyone is arguing against that (meaning they are arguing against the paradigm itself OR arguing against the early creation of this category). The comment I made above is a reason to not delete this category for being created too early. Two articles makes it have a use in the present. I didn't mean to apply it to every single possiblity, only this one. Brightgalrs (/braɪtˈɡæl.ərˌɛs/) [1] 16:56, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. As Pope Francis performs more actions as pope, there will be many articles written that relate to him. Notable trips, important policy statements, etc. should all carry this category. Andrew 327 20:34, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. Pope Francis is a pope, meaning there will eventually be quite a few pages relating to him, and his papacy. if you stop and think for a bit, remember that he was 'just' elected yesterday (as of CST), so of course there are not many articles pertaining to him or his papacy yet, he has only been pope for a day now. rather than waiting until we have a dozen or more articles needing to be added to the category, the category has been created to prepare for future articles. remember the 6 P's: Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance; or in this case it prevents having to go and hunt down a bunch of articles later; instead, the articles can be categorized as they are created. Aunva6 ( talk) 00:33, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • I believe that the argument of those in favour of deletion is that since he has only been pope for a day now, there is currently not enough content to justify creation of a category. Some argue that we should "prepare" and create categories that we anticipate will be needed; others argue that we "wait" and only create them when they are actually needed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The "delete because it isn't populated now but might be later" argument only applies if it's actually a case of might be. A reasonable person can assume that this category will be populated, likely extensively; it also forms part of what is likely an established category tree per the WP:SMALLCAT exemption, per Closeapple's mentions of other pope-by-name categories above, only needing the creation of Category:Popes by name to head it. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Strong keep. Clearly an useful and perspective category. -- ŠJů ( talk) 11:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • How? There is only the conclave article. It will not easily get lost - it's linked in the lead section of Pope Francis. -- 86.40.107.73 ( talk) 14:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • per WP:SMALLCAT,

        "a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time."

        Aunva6 ( talk) 03:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
        • That criterion refers to situations where we already know the category's ultimate population prospects, not situations where we have to speculate about them (or to eponymous categories). For example, if Cityville is a large enough city that its mayors would generally be deemed to qualify for articles just for being mayors, then a category for "Mayors of Cityville" can be created even if nobody has actually started articles about anyone prior to the current incumbent yet — but it does not justify creating "Mayors of Palookatown" alongside it, if Palookatown is a small town whose mayors would not qualify just for being mayors. It has nothing to do with this situation; the category's population prospects are strictly speculative at best, because for example he could entirely fail to accomplish anything that would ever warrant a separate article of its own, or even die of a heart attack tomorrow and thus not even have the opportunity to even attempt to accomplish anything that would warrant a separate article of its own. We don't permit small categories on the presumption that they'll probably be expandable in the future; we create and allow categories when we (a) already need them because the articles already exist, (b) already know that the difference between a small category and a fully populated one consists of topics that are already known and just haven't actually been written yet. If you can't point to a precise list of who or what the unwritten topics are already known to be, then this criterion does not apply. And also, the criterion says that the category in question may be kept; it does not say that the category must be kept. Bearcat ( talk) 20:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep yes, it's almost ridiculously small for the time being but there's no sense in deleting a category when we are absolutely certain that we'll need to recreate it in the not so distant future. There are bound to be articles on some of his works and his biography will soon grow too large and parts will be spun off. An eponymous category is not an award, it's a pragmatic solution to ease navigation between articles on a common topic so the "he's undeserving" argument misses the point entirely. Pichpich ( talk) 17:19, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as per above. It's true that this category is not so populated but very soon after, this category will be populated by pages related to him for his papacy. Like what Pichpich raised, his biography will grow and if ever, it will have a separate article like Early life of Pope Francis like that. Mediran ( t • c) 01:50, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Also as per the nominator said, if his concern was just because dozens of popes doesn't have their own category, then nominate and delete also Category:Pope Benedict XVI and Category:Pope John Paul II. We doesn't have categories about dozen of popes becaus they have lived many many many many years ago and we have little knowledge about them. That's why their WP articles are stub and if we're talking about the recent and the current popes, we have now more knowledge about them because we lived in their time. Also, categories are not awards or merits, it's a categorization of articles related to a certain subject that have a good scope and Pope Francis will be. Did you folks get what I mean? Thanks :) Mediran ( t • c) 01:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
      • So other stuff exists - why would the Benedict and John Paul categories be deleted when they are sufficiently populated? Several days have passed now since this pope came to prominence. There was a marked interest in him for a while but that is gradually dying down - he is not in the news headlines as much as the first day, there are some trivial asides now like the childhood sweetheart who led to where he is, and gasp, shock, horror, he has only one lung says another (as many more besides have only one lung), etc. In that time the Pope Francis article has been fleshed out. However, there has been absolutely no sign of anything else being created - and, barring someone creating a hurried weak one sentence stub deliberately to disprove that point ( Lung of Pope Francis anyone?), there is no sign of any change in that regard. The fact remains there is still a category with no meaningful separate content to put in it apart from the conclave. -- 86.40.98.160 ( talk) 10:47, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
        • WP:SMALLCAT. again, we don't need sourcing and fact for every little thing we do on wikipedia. articles need sourcing and fact, but wikipedia policy and even waht is added to article, as well as what articles are kept or deleted, are almost entirely defined by consensus. the fact that a cat currently has few articles is not a reason to delete it if there is a reasonable expectation that it will grow significantly. consensus appears to be that the expectation that the category will grow are reasonable. Aunva6 ( talk) 17:08, 16 March 2013 (UTC) reply
          • Again, WP:SMALLCAT's "reasonable growth" exemption only applies if you can already name the gaps (e.g. 100 people have already held X job and are all notable enough for articles, but for whatever reason only two of them have actually gotten written about so far.) It does not apply to situations where the potential for growth is strictly speculative in nature. Bearcat ( talk) 23:43, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment well we have now had a third entry with the article on the Jesuit institution where Pope Francis was educated, and it is likely we will soon have articles on some of the books he has written, so I think it is clear that it has potential to grow to a reasonable size, even in the extremely unlikely event that Pope Francis dies while I am typing this. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The category now has 5 articles (I added biography and biographer) and may continue growing. Cambalachero ( talk) 02:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, the category has 7 articles now. -- Funandtrvl ( talk) 16:33, 18 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep -- Since we have categories for other popes, we will need this one soon, even if strictly we may not do so yet. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:34, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, it's reasonable to think the category may grow. -- NaBUru38 ( talk) 18:32, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Note: WP:SMALLCAT, which has been cited in this discussion, was modified in the middle of this discussion; I've changed it back. See Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#Unusually-specifically-targeted small category guideline clarifications for more information and/or discussion about the guideline. -- Closeapple ( talk) 00:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment I was going to continue the W. H. Harrison discussion, but could not find it. As it stands, we probably would have a category on Harrison even if he had died in 1830 before running for the presidency, at least everything we have in his category would still apply. On this matter, we have nine articles, and at least one that was in the category has been removed. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:08, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Croatian Nazis

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: This category was created on 14 March 2013 and is factually incorrect. The people in this category were Croatian Ustaše (which was a fascist organisation that ruled an Axis puppet state during WWII), and were not members of the German NSDAP. Category:Ustaše already exists and is the appropriate category for these people. The subcategory of Category:Croatian Nazi collaborators needs renaming, but I will address this separately, as there are other "X Naxi collaborators" categories that need changing too. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 01:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illegitimate children of popes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. If there are any articles on legitimate children of Popes, they can be placed in a new Category:Children of popes, which should be a parent of this category. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 07:32, 21 March 2013 (UTC) reply
Nominator's rationale: Rename. The "illegitimate" is not necessary in this context, particularly as there is no possibility of confusion with other types of children. It also may be derogatory, particularly right now, with the likelihood that some of the contents of this category may be currently living people. 86.40.200.32 ( talk) 00:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
List of sexually active Popes identifies at least six legitimate children of Popes, and also shows that tradition idnetifies Saint Petronilla as having been the legitimate daughter of Simon Peter, the first Pope according to Catholic tradiont. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 05:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • The question remains. A small number of popes have had a small number of children. So small is the number why do they need to be split into legitimate and illegitimate? Why not one category called Category:Children of popes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.200.32 ( talk • contribs)
    • I have already mentioned one possible reason. This category is within the Category:Illegitimate children of monarchs tree. It's not absolutely necessary to keep popes' illegitimate children in a subcategory within this tree, but if a user wants to keep them within this tree as a subcategory, it is a reason to oppose the renaming. Also, if considerations turn to whether we should have both—we don't generally categorize people by what position their parent held. An exception is the illegitimate children of monarchs tree. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Supercategorize with the suggested category, the current becoming a subcategory of it, allowing categorization into the illegitimate tree, and the standard tree. -- 65.92.180.137 ( talk) 04:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose per Good Ol'Factory's comments. We don't randomly lop one branch off an established category tree without very good reason. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:54, 15 March 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Comment -- Since for the last 1000+ years, no pope is supposed to have married, the children will necessarily be illegitimate; accordingly, it must be the same as Category:Children of popes. I suspect that the children were is fact usually passed off as nephews or nieces. There is a good reason for having an illegitimate category for monarch's children, because they cannot inherit the crown. We may also need a morganatic children category for them (children or marriages with commoners who could not inherit the crown). That issue does not arise in respect of an elective monarchy such as the papacy. Peterkingiron ( talk) 17:40, 19 March 2013 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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