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Category:Communities in the Mojave Desert
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. When we did the rename for various "communities" categories to "populated places", this was missed; both its parents are properly named, just need this one to follow-suit.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:38, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Country subdivisions named for direction
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Delete - little encyclopedic value (not useful for either navigation or classification). A list may be appropriate, but even that is pushing it.
Neutralitytalk18:25, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:IAAF Diamond League
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Comment I recommend a return to the original titling of "IAAF Diamond League". I believe we should focus on continuity and not concern ourselves with title sponsors (Samsung here) which are often replaced and forgotten. Consider the
Premier League or
Football League Cup articles as analogues.
SFB18:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:People with special notability
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Nominator's rationale:Delete Obviously, "special" and "notability" are too vague and subjective. And the introductory sentence does little to clarify what the intended scope really is.
Pichpich (
talk)
15:55, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
My motivation for creating this category was an Iranian man who wants to be seen in television and in photos of newspapers, so he is searching for any formal ceremonials or situation that is broadcasted in television and he attends them to be shown in television. He is notable for this reason. But I had difficulty in putting him under current categories. So I created this category. Can you suggest any category for such a person?
Ali Pirhayati (
talk)
17:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete We might be able to find a better category if we know the article in question;
Rainbow Man, for example, is slotted into
Category:Sports spectators. As structured now, however, the category is not only subjective but constitutes a "miscellaneous celebrity or notoriety" which runs counter to the principles of WP categorization.-
choster (
talk)
22:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
It appears that Alipir is referring to
Jimmy Jump. Reminds me of
Fan Man and that woman with the huge... assets... that used to run onto baseball diamonds and kiss players. Hypothetically, one could create a category for people who interfere with sporting events, but I honestly cannot think of any others who are notable enough to have articles offhand. Even the guy who stabbed
Monica Seles has no article.
Resolute23:03, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, we have Jump,
Fan Man, Morgana and Neil Horan. It does seem to have potential to create a viable category for such individuals. But what could we name it that would make sense to both European and North American editors/readers?
Resolute04:47, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Four is pretty small for a category. A list within the pitch invasion article would probably suffice, for these four along with others who disrupted an event but are not otherwise notable enough for an article.
Harley Hudson (
talk)
21:40, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - if I'm understanding the concept, this is supposed to be for people who are
famous for being famous. It's daunting to come up with a category name that fits that subjective concept and it's probably best if we find something, anything, about the person other than this to serve as a basis for categorization. In any event the current category name is untenable and it's also empty.
Harley Hudson (
talk)
18:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The general term is "
celebrity"— people everyone has heard of, even if we don't know why they should have heard of them.
Category:Celebrity doesn't specifically exclude articles about individuals, but naturally, the editors there are assiduous about recategorization.-
choster (
talk)
18:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Executive branch of the Serbian government
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Strong oppose for now. The two precedents cited were of cases where the "executive branch" terminology was not used in the countries concerned. The nominator offers no evidence either way as the what the usage is Serbia, and we should make a decision such as this on the basis of the constitutional terminology of Serbia, not the terminology of other countries. This is a mirror of the problem addressed in
the discussion on Ireland: in the Irish case, LL had applied the "executive branch terminology" without evidence of its use in Ireland. In this case, LL is trying to remove the same terminology without any evidence either way of Serbian usage. I don't know what the usage is in Serbia, but there is no sign that LL knows the answer either. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
00:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Request to strike strong oppose When advocating an "oppose", let alone a "strong oppose", it is usual to either (A) point to flaws in the proposer's logic or (B) introduce new evidence of one's own to support a "no" vote. I see no evidence of (A) in BHG's contribution above. Betting that the nominator does not know something is not the same as proving that the nominator does not know something. Wikipedia is not a casino. I see no evidence of (B) in BHG's contribution above. Indeed she frankly admits "I don't know what the usage is in Serbia". Refreshing as this honesty is, it hardly represents new evidence to oppose. Lastly, BHG says that "LL is trying to remove the same terminology without any evidence either way of Serbian usage". This is not true as the precedents cited contain all the evidence needed for the nomination. As BHG will recall, the discussion on the Irish precedent alone ran over an A4 page; it would as tedious for me to cut 'n' paste those arguments as it would be for editors to read through them. As brevity is the soul of wit, I left them in a compressed form; those with an interest in the topic will no doubt click the link leaving others free to scan the rest of the clutter-free list. I look forward to contributions from Serbians - which reminds me, I must place a notification on their project page, if they have one. The contribution above is also remarkable for the BHG's flexibility in being as keen to oppose the Serbian case as she was to support the identical Irish case. Not content with having won me over to her side with the force of her logic in the Irish precedent, she now seems bent on undoing her good work with this bizarre volte face. In conclusion, the contribution may have have more to do with "IF LL proposes it, then it must be wrong" than with any compelling logic and, if true, would represent an ugly stain on an Administrator's reputation. I invite BGH to think again and to strike out her opposition.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
19:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
LL, when considering a nomination, it is usual to encounter a coherent rationale. That was not the case here.
It is also good practice to refrain from putting words in other people's mouths. I did not "bet" that you had no evidence of the usage in Serbia: I noted that there was no sign that you had any. If you have some up your sleeve, then produce it ... otherwise please stop wasting the time of other editors.
The precedents you cite were of discussions which both hinged on evidence of the actual usage in the countries concerned. Since you have not provided any evidence of the usage in Serbia, either in your nomination or in your rambling response, I will continue to note that you have none. If you do offer some evidence, then I will consider it.
In the meantime, we have no evidence either way, so we stick with the status quo. I'm sorry that LL finds it difficult to understand that there is no point in discussing a change a category name when we have no evidence on which to base such a decision: it would simply be a shift from one "maybe right, maybe wrong" to another "maybe right, maybe wrong" ... and that is a pointless exercise. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
22:56, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The Constitution of Serbia contains
[1] the following article: Article 4: "The legal system is unique. Government system shall be based on the division of power into legislative, executive and judiciary. Relation between three branches of power shall be based on balance and mutual control..."
Article 122: "The Government shall be the holder of executive power in the Republic of Serbia."
Article 125: "The Government shall consist of the Prime Minister, one or more Vice Presidents and ministers."
Article 126: "Member of the Government may not be a deputy in the National Assembly...".
Similar statements exist in the Irish Constitution:"Article 6 1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people...". However, this apparent support was rejected in the final decision. One of the arguments in that case was "The United States constitution views them as difft branches of govt, but that is not the terminology adopted by the Irish constitution. In Ireland, the "executive branch" is the only thing called "Government of Ireland". Those who choose to view Ireland through the doctrine of the tripartite separation of powers may like to apply that label, but it is not the Irish terminology ... and its application to Ireland also ignores the fact that the Oireachtas elects the members of the Government from its own ranks, so the US-style separation does not exist." The same may also be said of Serbia then.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
17:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Oppose - You can't decide what the correct terminology for Serbia is based on category discussion for three other different countries.
Snappy (
talk)
22:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
See "Request to strike strong oppose" above. Loyalty noted, but comments equally applicable. I ask you also, what positive grounds for opposition do you have? Have you verifiable evidence that the Government of Serbia uses the term "Executive Government of Serbia" in its public communications, for example? If not, why the opposition? And why not a strong oppose?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
23:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
You speak Serbian, have a degree in Serbian studies and your mother is Serbian? What knowledge if any do you have of Serbian constitutional issues?
Snappy (
talk)
06:36, 2 June 2011 (UTC)reply
The discussion has been posted on the Project Serbia page where I'm sure lots of Serbian constitutional lawywers hang out. Does one need to speak Serbian to know that certain things in or about Serbia are wrong? What make you think that the person who created the inappropriately named category in the first lace meets any of the tests you impose above? If he doesn't, does that automatically invalidate it?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:20, 2 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Idol participants from North Carolina
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Nominator's rationale:Merge. The definition of a trivial intersection of location and a reality singing show appearance.
TM04:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Merge The category of American Idol participants does not need to be split into subcategories by state. I would think most of these subcategories would contain only a few names and thus would be unnecessary.
Aspects (
talk)
05:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:SS personnel who were not Nazis
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Nominator's rationale:Delete. We generally do not categorize articles about people based on intersections of what they were combined with what they were not. The category is currently small—only contains
Karl von Krempler. The article mentions that he was not a member of the Nazi party, which should be sufficient to get the point across.
Good Ol’factory(talk)04:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The list would no doubt be expanded in time. I thought it would be a helpful research category for people who want to see what SS personnel were not Nazi party members.
Hoops gza (
talk)
04:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. The non-Nazi status of the category's only member is poorly sourced, but a one-member category probably wouldn't be worth keeping even if the sourcing was rock-solid.
Roscelese (
talk ⋅
contribs)
19:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. This category only counts one entry as I have just removed the second one mistakenly inserted person (Joachim Peiper was a nazi and was member of the nazi party, which means that he does not meet any og the two possible criteria). I furthermore more wonder how one could be member of the SS without being nazi. --
Lebob (
talk)
12:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
My source states that Peiper was not a Nazi Party member. Apparently, it was unlawful for non-ethnic Germans to join the NSDAP, so that's how one could be SS and not a Nazi member.
Hoops gza (
talk)
21:53, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
In that case every member of Scandinavian SS would automatically qualify. I am split between Listify and Delete unless some reasonable rename can be proposed.
Beta M (
talk)
05:13, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
I said ethnically German, not German. I don't think it was a perfect system based on nationality, but rather ethnicity as deemed by the Nazis.
Hoops gza (
talk)
10:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spider-Man articles by importance
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Nominator's rationale: Used by WikiProject Spider-Man and it is currently empty. The Spider-Man work group of
WikiProject Comics does not use any more. Also nominating:
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Category:Drug control history
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Category:Provincial ministers
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Nominator's rationale:Merge together into a renamed category. These category names are vague and ambiguous. They refer to political office-holders in the provinces and territories of Canada. Since it is usual to group topics by Canadian provinces and territories in the same category, I propose merging these two together into a renamed category that specifies the country.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support rename and merge. The categories at present are incredibly vague, and a merge makes sense as the territory category will never have more than three articles and three subcats. No need to split them out.
Resolute16:27, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
In Canada, they are sometimes referred to "provincial ministers" or "territorial ministers". But no one speaks of "subnational", "subcountry", or "subfederal" ministers. Those would be neologisms, at least in the Canadian context.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:54, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Communities in the Mojave Desert
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. When we did the rename for various "communities" categories to "populated places", this was missed; both its parents are properly named, just need this one to follow-suit.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
20:38, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Country subdivisions named for direction
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Delete - little encyclopedic value (not useful for either navigation or classification). A list may be appropriate, but even that is pushing it.
Neutralitytalk18:25, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:IAAF Diamond League
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Comment I recommend a return to the original titling of "IAAF Diamond League". I believe we should focus on continuity and not concern ourselves with title sponsors (Samsung here) which are often replaced and forgotten. Consider the
Premier League or
Football League Cup articles as analogues.
SFB18:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:People with special notability
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Nominator's rationale:Delete Obviously, "special" and "notability" are too vague and subjective. And the introductory sentence does little to clarify what the intended scope really is.
Pichpich (
talk)
15:55, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
My motivation for creating this category was an Iranian man who wants to be seen in television and in photos of newspapers, so he is searching for any formal ceremonials or situation that is broadcasted in television and he attends them to be shown in television. He is notable for this reason. But I had difficulty in putting him under current categories. So I created this category. Can you suggest any category for such a person?
Ali Pirhayati (
talk)
17:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete We might be able to find a better category if we know the article in question;
Rainbow Man, for example, is slotted into
Category:Sports spectators. As structured now, however, the category is not only subjective but constitutes a "miscellaneous celebrity or notoriety" which runs counter to the principles of WP categorization.-
choster (
talk)
22:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
It appears that Alipir is referring to
Jimmy Jump. Reminds me of
Fan Man and that woman with the huge... assets... that used to run onto baseball diamonds and kiss players. Hypothetically, one could create a category for people who interfere with sporting events, but I honestly cannot think of any others who are notable enough to have articles offhand. Even the guy who stabbed
Monica Seles has no article.
Resolute23:03, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Well, we have Jump,
Fan Man, Morgana and Neil Horan. It does seem to have potential to create a viable category for such individuals. But what could we name it that would make sense to both European and North American editors/readers?
Resolute04:47, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Four is pretty small for a category. A list within the pitch invasion article would probably suffice, for these four along with others who disrupted an event but are not otherwise notable enough for an article.
Harley Hudson (
talk)
21:40, 29 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete - if I'm understanding the concept, this is supposed to be for people who are
famous for being famous. It's daunting to come up with a category name that fits that subjective concept and it's probably best if we find something, anything, about the person other than this to serve as a basis for categorization. In any event the current category name is untenable and it's also empty.
Harley Hudson (
talk)
18:56, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The general term is "
celebrity"— people everyone has heard of, even if we don't know why they should have heard of them.
Category:Celebrity doesn't specifically exclude articles about individuals, but naturally, the editors there are assiduous about recategorization.-
choster (
talk)
18:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:Executive branch of the Serbian government
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Strong oppose for now. The two precedents cited were of cases where the "executive branch" terminology was not used in the countries concerned. The nominator offers no evidence either way as the what the usage is Serbia, and we should make a decision such as this on the basis of the constitutional terminology of Serbia, not the terminology of other countries. This is a mirror of the problem addressed in
the discussion on Ireland: in the Irish case, LL had applied the "executive branch terminology" without evidence of its use in Ireland. In this case, LL is trying to remove the same terminology without any evidence either way of Serbian usage. I don't know what the usage is in Serbia, but there is no sign that LL knows the answer either. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
00:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Request to strike strong oppose When advocating an "oppose", let alone a "strong oppose", it is usual to either (A) point to flaws in the proposer's logic or (B) introduce new evidence of one's own to support a "no" vote. I see no evidence of (A) in BHG's contribution above. Betting that the nominator does not know something is not the same as proving that the nominator does not know something. Wikipedia is not a casino. I see no evidence of (B) in BHG's contribution above. Indeed she frankly admits "I don't know what the usage is in Serbia". Refreshing as this honesty is, it hardly represents new evidence to oppose. Lastly, BHG says that "LL is trying to remove the same terminology without any evidence either way of Serbian usage". This is not true as the precedents cited contain all the evidence needed for the nomination. As BHG will recall, the discussion on the Irish precedent alone ran over an A4 page; it would as tedious for me to cut 'n' paste those arguments as it would be for editors to read through them. As brevity is the soul of wit, I left them in a compressed form; those with an interest in the topic will no doubt click the link leaving others free to scan the rest of the clutter-free list. I look forward to contributions from Serbians - which reminds me, I must place a notification on their project page, if they have one. The contribution above is also remarkable for the BHG's flexibility in being as keen to oppose the Serbian case as she was to support the identical Irish case. Not content with having won me over to her side with the force of her logic in the Irish precedent, she now seems bent on undoing her good work with this bizarre volte face. In conclusion, the contribution may have have more to do with "IF LL proposes it, then it must be wrong" than with any compelling logic and, if true, would represent an ugly stain on an Administrator's reputation. I invite BGH to think again and to strike out her opposition.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
19:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
LL, when considering a nomination, it is usual to encounter a coherent rationale. That was not the case here.
It is also good practice to refrain from putting words in other people's mouths. I did not "bet" that you had no evidence of the usage in Serbia: I noted that there was no sign that you had any. If you have some up your sleeve, then produce it ... otherwise please stop wasting the time of other editors.
The precedents you cite were of discussions which both hinged on evidence of the actual usage in the countries concerned. Since you have not provided any evidence of the usage in Serbia, either in your nomination or in your rambling response, I will continue to note that you have none. If you do offer some evidence, then I will consider it.
In the meantime, we have no evidence either way, so we stick with the status quo. I'm sorry that LL finds it difficult to understand that there is no point in discussing a change a category name when we have no evidence on which to base such a decision: it would simply be a shift from one "maybe right, maybe wrong" to another "maybe right, maybe wrong" ... and that is a pointless exercise. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs)
22:56, 4 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The Constitution of Serbia contains
[1] the following article: Article 4: "The legal system is unique. Government system shall be based on the division of power into legislative, executive and judiciary. Relation between three branches of power shall be based on balance and mutual control..."
Article 122: "The Government shall be the holder of executive power in the Republic of Serbia."
Article 125: "The Government shall consist of the Prime Minister, one or more Vice Presidents and ministers."
Article 126: "Member of the Government may not be a deputy in the National Assembly...".
Similar statements exist in the Irish Constitution:"Article 6 1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people...". However, this apparent support was rejected in the final decision. One of the arguments in that case was "The United States constitution views them as difft branches of govt, but that is not the terminology adopted by the Irish constitution. In Ireland, the "executive branch" is the only thing called "Government of Ireland". Those who choose to view Ireland through the doctrine of the tripartite separation of powers may like to apply that label, but it is not the Irish terminology ... and its application to Ireland also ignores the fact that the Oireachtas elects the members of the Government from its own ranks, so the US-style separation does not exist." The same may also be said of Serbia then.
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
17:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Oppose - You can't decide what the correct terminology for Serbia is based on category discussion for three other different countries.
Snappy (
talk)
22:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
See "Request to strike strong oppose" above. Loyalty noted, but comments equally applicable. I ask you also, what positive grounds for opposition do you have? Have you verifiable evidence that the Government of Serbia uses the term "Executive Government of Serbia" in its public communications, for example? If not, why the opposition? And why not a strong oppose?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
23:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
You speak Serbian, have a degree in Serbian studies and your mother is Serbian? What knowledge if any do you have of Serbian constitutional issues?
Snappy (
talk)
06:36, 2 June 2011 (UTC)reply
The discussion has been posted on the Project Serbia page where I'm sure lots of Serbian constitutional lawywers hang out. Does one need to speak Serbian to know that certain things in or about Serbia are wrong? What make you think that the person who created the inappropriately named category in the first lace meets any of the tests you impose above? If he doesn't, does that automatically invalidate it?
Laurel Lodged (
talk)
08:20, 2 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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Category:American Idol participants from North Carolina
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Merge. The definition of a trivial intersection of location and a reality singing show appearance.
TM04:06, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Merge The category of American Idol participants does not need to be split into subcategories by state. I would think most of these subcategories would contain only a few names and thus would be unnecessary.
Aspects (
talk)
05:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:SS personnel who were not Nazis
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete. We generally do not categorize articles about people based on intersections of what they were combined with what they were not. The category is currently small—only contains
Karl von Krempler. The article mentions that he was not a member of the Nazi party, which should be sufficient to get the point across.
Good Ol’factory(talk)04:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The list would no doubt be expanded in time. I thought it would be a helpful research category for people who want to see what SS personnel were not Nazi party members.
Hoops gza (
talk)
04:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. The non-Nazi status of the category's only member is poorly sourced, but a one-member category probably wouldn't be worth keeping even if the sourcing was rock-solid.
Roscelese (
talk ⋅
contribs)
19:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Delete. This category only counts one entry as I have just removed the second one mistakenly inserted person (Joachim Peiper was a nazi and was member of the nazi party, which means that he does not meet any og the two possible criteria). I furthermore more wonder how one could be member of the SS without being nazi. --
Lebob (
talk)
12:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
My source states that Peiper was not a Nazi Party member. Apparently, it was unlawful for non-ethnic Germans to join the NSDAP, so that's how one could be SS and not a Nazi member.
Hoops gza (
talk)
21:53, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
In that case every member of Scandinavian SS would automatically qualify. I am split between Listify and Delete unless some reasonable rename can be proposed.
Beta M (
talk)
05:13, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
I said ethnically German, not German. I don't think it was a perfect system based on nationality, but rather ethnicity as deemed by the Nazis.
Hoops gza (
talk)
10:09, 28 May 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Spider-Man articles by importance
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Used by WikiProject Spider-Man and it is currently empty. The Spider-Man work group of
WikiProject Comics does not use any more. Also nominating:
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Drug control history
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Provincial ministers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Merge together into a renamed category. These category names are vague and ambiguous. They refer to political office-holders in the provinces and territories of Canada. Since it is usual to group topics by Canadian provinces and territories in the same category, I propose merging these two together into a renamed category that specifies the country.
Good Ol’factory(talk)00:42, 26 May 2011 (UTC)reply
Support rename and merge. The categories at present are incredibly vague, and a merge makes sense as the territory category will never have more than three articles and three subcats. No need to split them out.
Resolute16:27, 27 May 2011 (UTC)reply
In Canada, they are sometimes referred to "provincial ministers" or "territorial ministers". But no one speaks of "subnational", "subcountry", or "subfederal" ministers. Those would be neologisms, at least in the Canadian context.
Good Ol’factory(talk)21:54, 1 June 2011 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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