WIKIPEDIA:CATEGORIES FOR DISCUSSION LOG 2010 MARCH 31

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March 31

Category:Polish mathematicians of Jewish descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Polish mathematicians and Category:Polish Jews. -- Black Falcon ^(
talk) 05:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose merging Category:Polish mathematicians of Jewish descent to Category:Polish mathematicians, Category:Jewish mathematicians (a subcat of Category:Jews by occupation), and Category:Polish Jews (as listed are Jews and not those of Jewish descent who do/did not practise Judaism)

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorisation. Mayumashu ( talk) 02:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Support – 'Jewish mathematicians' was deleted at a cfd in 2007. So upmerge to the other 2. Occuli ( talk) 08:44, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply

That s a while back and there are a lot of subcats for Category:Jews by occupation Mayumashu ( talk) 18:10, 2 April 2010 (UTC) reply

There always have been a lot of subcats for Category:Jews by occupation. Some get deleted and others survive (eg by not being nominated). Anyway I don't think a well-run cfd should be recreating as a side effect a category previously deleted by cfd. Occuli ( talk) 01:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Merge by nominator and by precedent. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 11:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
- Merge to Category:Polish mathematicians only. Changing my !vote to clarify that I do not support re-creating Category:Jewish mathematicians. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 18:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Merge to Category:Polish mathematicians. No need for this triple intersection. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:50, 7 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American female adult models

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. — ξ ^xplicit 19:12, 8 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Indiscriminate, posing BLP issues. There are no selection criteria here. Instead, it's an inconsistent listing of Playboy Playmates and models, Penthouse Pets, hardcore pornographic actresses, women who've appeared naked in films, and women who've been photographed in various stages of undress, without regard to the context. There's no explanation as to what "adult" means (and it doesn't seem to mean much more than that a Wikipedia editor believes he's seen images of the subject's bare breasts, or more); there's in practice no requirement that the categorization reflect the subject's occupation. Jaid Barrymore is included, but not Drew Barrymore; Claudia Lennear, but not Debbie Gibson. Some of the entries are inexplicable -- eg, Karen Lynn Gorney, Lissy Trullie -- at least in terms of the article contents. Most important, the BLP problems appear insurmountable -- this is a second generation subcategory of "American sex workers," and going far beyond the popular understanding of that term and creating inaccurate implications about a significant number of the listed individuals. In the past, I've cleaned up some of the more egregious inclusions (eg, a fashion model who once posed for a single published nude by Richard Avedon), but that's a fool's errand; there's nothing salvageable here. (There are a batch of related categories, mostly other nationalities, that can be resolved quickly after this is settled; this is by far the most fouled-up). Hullaballoo Wolfowitz ( talk) 23:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Keep, I only see cleanup concerns here. Individuals should not be categorized by a one-off gig of any kind, so celebrities who posed for one Playboy issue should not be in this category. But there are definitely many individuals who are notable only as adult models, a career distinct from mainstream (fashion/runway, etc.) models in the same way that Category:Pornographic film actors is distinct from Category:Film actors generally. I notice there is no merge target proposed, so I don't know how the nom proposes to otherwise categorize them. As for the sex workers parent category, I can't say that's necessarily correct, but the article gives that term a potentially broad definition that would include models in sexual materials, not just prostitutes (a former classmate of mine who had worked as a stripper even called herself a "former sex worker" in class once. strange girl.). But regardless, the scope of the sex worker category structure is another matter to be discussed; I don't see that as a reason to delete this category. If that category doesn't belong as a parent, then remove it. postdlf ( talk) 05:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
keep part of an established pattern. See its parent Category:Female adult models by nationality Hmains ( talk) 05:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep per Postdlf. NERDYSCIENCEDUDE ( ✉ message • changes) 12:28, 4 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep 22:42, 5 April 2010 (UTC) Come with a good story and compact story and maybe we will buy it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.84.107.139 ( talk)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Songs written by Bee Gees members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: split. — ξ ^xplicit 21:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Nominator's rationale: Split into Category:Songs written by Maurice Gibb, Category:Songs written by Barry Gibb, Category:Songs written by Robin Gibb, Category:Songs written by Colin Petersen, Category:Songs written by Vince Melouney, and Category:Songs written by Geoff Bridgeford as necessary and subcategorize or seealso in Category:Bee Gees songs. Making categories of songwriters by band member affiliation is a huge headache and not at all helpful to navigation. — Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 19:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Support. Good idea, it was always in mind it should be split. Perhaps you would like to add the earlier created Category:Songs written by The Miracles members to your nomination? -- Richhoncho ( talk) 19:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep. Most of the songs were written collectively by the Gibb brothers, commonly known as the Bee Gees, so a collective category is needed for those songs. Colin Peterson, Vince Melouney and Geoff Bridgeford were only briefly members of the group and were not involved in writing of the songs, so the category is really songs by the Gibb brothers, but as they are better known as the Bee Gees, the current title of the category is reasonable. Subcategories could be created for songs written by individual members, in particular Category:Songs written by Barry Gibb. Cjc13 ( talk) 10:57, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep -- Per Cjc13. Maurreen ( talk) 04:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment, every other category in the songs by songwriter tree is split down to the writers, why should the two mentioned above be any different? Plus there are songs written by Bee Gees members but not recorded by the Bee Gees, so the Bee Gees tag wouldn't be appropriate. People write songs, not marketing names! Wish I'd never taken the easy way in the first place. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 09:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC) reply
The obvious example is Category:Songs written by Lennon/McCartney, which is included in the category separately from Category:Songs written by Paul McCartney and Category:Songs written by John Lennon. There are other partnerships included, eg Category:Songs written by Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil and Category:Songs written by the Sherman Brothers. It would be possible to simplify the name to Category:Songs written by the Bee Gees. This would be preferable to Category:Songs written by the Gibb brothers as they are better known as the Bee Gees. Cjc13 ( talk) 22:55, 3 April 2010 (UTC) reply
The comparison with Lennon/McCartney is incorrect, the corresponding category would be Category:Songs written by the Beatles members which is a redlink! Also, there is a separate article for the Lennon/McCartney songwriting partnership. Category:Songs written by George Harrison exists and includes songs written with Len/Mac, Beatles songs and songs recorded as a solo artist, ditto for Ringo Starr. The Mann/Weill category is problematic as both actually have song articles which they didn't co-write together and there is no supporting combined article. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 14:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply

PS The Sherman Brothers have written all their songs together as far as I am aware, would be pointless to split them. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 18:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
I would be okay with a rename to Category:Songs written by the Bee Gees, as these are songs written collectively and that is how they were known collectively. Cjc13 ( talk) 19:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Save that even the BeeGees didn't give the songwriting credit to the band, but to each individual as shown here. I wish i hadn't created this category. BTW, a bit forward of you to create a new category which is the subject of a discussion? -- Richhoncho ( talk) 20:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
The lists for Robin Gibb and Maurice Gibb are very similar and all of their tracks with articles in Wikipedia were collaborations with fellow Bee Gees. I created the subcategory to show I had gone through all the song credits and I thought it would help the discussion. Cjc13 ( talk) 20:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment. I have now created Category:Songs written by Barry Gibb, so the other songs are all written by 2 or 3 of the brothers. Cjc13 ( talk) 13:11, 4 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Support - Per Richhoncho and Justin (koavf). "Bee Gee Members" isn't accurate and sounds awkward... Doc9871 ( talk) 21:40, 5 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Support splitting out. Songs are written by people, not by people who are then associated together in some other way. In this case, even the creator (and sole editor!) has agreed that the nomination should be carried out, so I don't see why it should not be. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 10:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment, as I don't think a bot can do this one, if the nomination is closed as split, I am more than happy to continue the editing started by Cjc13, at least that way I pay for my error, as it should be! -- Richhoncho ( talk) 11:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Split per nominator, clearer names which are more line within naming conventions. These songs were written by individual people. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(
Many otters •
One bat •
One hammer)} 19:17, 25 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Thunder Bay, Ontario

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Rename all. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose renaming

Nominator's rationale: To match parent articles of Thunder Bay and Thunder Bay District, the word district is enough of a disambiguator for the two and there are no others that would have these sort of categories.. DJSasso ( talk) 17:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Support per nom. One that Djasso and I agree on! There are no other significantly large settlements called Thunder Bay nor any other Thunder Bay Districts Mayumashu ( talk) 00:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Support Renames to match titles of parent articles. Alansohn ( talk) 02:19, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Support renaming all per nom. NERDYSCIENCEDUDE ( ✉ message • changes) 12:29, 4 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ice hockey players from Maine

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: upmerge (rename, really, since the target categories don't currently exist). -- Black Falcon ^(
talk) 06:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose merging Category:Ice hockey players from Maine to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Maine

Propose merging Category:Ice hockey players from Michigan to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Michigan

Propose merging Category:Ice hockey players from Wisconsin to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Wisconsin

Nominator's rationale: This follows the other CFD I just posted. These categories don't warrant being sudivided this far. This also follows the naming scheme that has been in use for years with players in Canada such as Category:Ice hockey personnel from Ontario. DJSasso ( talk) 13:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Merge Agreed personnel covers players no need to subdivide, plus it follows prior naming schemes-- Leech44 ( talk) 14:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Merge – the Canadian scheme seems sufficiently divided. Occuli ( talk) 15:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep as a subcategory of Category:American ice hockey players. Honestly, I do not understand why Ice hockey players are any different then Category:Basketball players from Maine, Category:Players of American football from Maine or Category:Major League Baseball players from Maine.-- TM 15:55, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
- The reasoning is that most players go on to be notable for other things in the sport like being coaches or managers or referees etc. By naming it as personnel instead of players in eliminates alot of over categorization. I would actually rename those ones as well but right now just focusing on hockey. I would also note that the Category:American ice hockey players is a category involving positions played in the game (as Americans). Not where they are from, that is what the Category:American sportspeople by state takes care of which is what these would then be a subcategory of. Two different category trees. And as of right now there are 6 players in the category (I am sure there are others that haven't been cat'd yet though) which isn't a strong case for needing to seperate players from the coaches, referees, managers etc. - DJSasso ( talk) 15:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
  - I disagree with the notion that most players go on to be notable for coaching or refereeing. It is simply not true. Of the 6 articles in the Maine category, one, Eric Weinrich, has been a coach. I doubt that it is a much higher ratio than 1 of 6 in any other category. On the notion that having only 6 articles in a category requires merging, WP:OC#Small makes no such claim. There is significant room for expansion. Lastly, we should be developing Category:American ice hockey people by state rather than destroying it. By doing this, you are hurting common categorization across all sports.-- TM 17:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
    - I am not destroying it, if you read my nom this is to go along with a renaming of that category. Just because other sports are poorly named doesn't mean we shouldn't start somewhere and fix all of them. I shouldn't have used the word most, but alot do go on to other positions in hockey. Also ice hockey has been categorized this way for well over 3 years. So I don't think this rename will hurt the common categorization across all sports anyways or something would have been done about it. If anything the fact that these categories are out of synch with the rest of its equivalent categories is the greater issue. - DJSasso ( talk) 17:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep or merge to Category:Ice hockey people from Maine, Category:Ice hockey people from Michigan, and Category:Ice hockey people from Wisconsin It isn t 'sports personnel' but 'sportspeople'. 'Personnel below to an organisation and 'sportspeople' play a sport. People by sport is as important if not more to include non-playing notable individuals - some coaches and most officials were not notable former players Mayumashu ( talk) 23:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American ice hockey people by state

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete Category:Ice hockey people from Minnesota as a duplicate and rename the rest as nominated, except rename Category:Ice hockey people from New York (state) to Category:Ice hockey personnel from New York (under speedy renaming criterion C2.C). I recommend nominating Category:Ice hockey personnel for renaming if the use of "personnel" is believed to be inaccurate. -- Black Falcon ^(
talk) 05:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose renaming Category:American ice hockey people by state to Category:American ice hockey personnel by state

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from California to Category:Ice hockey personnel from California

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from Illinois to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Illinois

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from Maine to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Maine

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from Massachusetts to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Massachusetts

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from Michigan to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Michigan

Propose deleting Category:Ice hockey people from Minnesota as a duplicate of Category:Ice hockey personnel from Minnesota

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from New York (state) to Category:Ice hockey personnel from New York (state)

Propose renaming Category:Ice hockey people from Wisconsin to Category:Ice hockey personnel from Wisconsin

Nominator's rationale: These are recently created categories for the most part which should be renamed as above because there is already a tree using this naming standard Category:Canadian ice hockey personnel by province or territory which was renamed from people at cfd previously. The reasoning behind this is personnel is better english than people. They are part of the Category:Ice hockey personnel by nationality tree. DJSasso ( talk) 13:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Rename Change to keep constancy in category names-- Leech44 ( talk) 14:32, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Rename - also Category:American ice hockey people by state has been placed as a subcat schemm for Category:American ice hockey personnel, and there is no Category:American ice hockey people or Category:Ice hockey people. Occuli ( talk) 14:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Note that there is an open cfd for Category:Ice hockey players from Minnesota. Occuli ( talk) 14:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Yeah I forgot about that one when I put these two up. Probably should have waited, but wanted to get this up before Mayu went through the trouble of creating 52 categories. (or however many). - DJSasso ( talk) 14:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Mayumashu is nothing if not thorough and is probably heading towards 'Players', 'Coaches', 'Administrators' and 'stubs', by state, century and gender, which comes to 800 or so, max. Occuli ( talk) 15:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
I've slightly changed the request for Minnesota from rename to delete since the other cfd has closed as rename. - DJSasso ( talk) 22:15, 4 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Keep. Someone mention my name? No, in fact, I ve been (the) one in favour of 'by people' over 'by player' to be able to lump all notables involved within a single sport together and not have Category:Baseball umpires from Delaware etc. It is sportspeople, not sports personnel, and for good reason - personnel belong to an organisation and a sport is not an organisation (although it does have organisation, of course) Mayumashu ( talk) 00:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Personnel doesn't automatically mean organization. Personnel is a term you use for people that work in a certain profession. ie Medical personnel not Medical people. Information Technology personnel not Information Technology people. Using people is very bad english. - DJSasso ( talk) 00:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham personnel

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge/rename as nominated. -- Black Falcon ^(
talk) 05:02, 8 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose merging Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham personnel to Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham people

Propose renaming Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham professors to Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham faculty

Nominator's rationale: Merge and rename per the standards at Category:People by university or college in the United States and Category:Faculty by university or college in the United States. Tassedethe ( talk) 12:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Merge/rename per nom. (Why is the latter not in Category:Faculty by university or college in Alabama?) Occuli ( talk) 13:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
- Missed that bit. Now moved to correct cat. Tassedethe ( talk) 14:26, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply
Merge per nom. Mayumashu ( talk) 00:04, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Privately owned Government companies in India

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was:

Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 April 13#Category:Privately owned Government companies in India. — ξ ^xplicit 20:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC) reply

Propose merging Category:Privately owned Government companies in India to Category:Government-owned companies in India

Nominator's rationale: The title of this category is oxymoronic: if a company is privately-owned, it's not a govt company. However the category does appear to be for state-owned enterprises, so I suggest merging to the existing Category:Government-owned companies in India. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 02:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC) reply

Comment Looking at the header for this category it appears that they are ‘Autonomous’ rather than ‘private’. Perhaps a rename to Category:Autonomous Government companies in India might be better than merge. I do not know sufficient about the Indian business model to say whether the distinction should be drawn between these businesses. The category is in any case in the wrong place – it should be a sub-cat of Category:Government-owned companies in India. Twiceuponatime ( talk) 08:29, 1 April 2010 (UTC) reply
Comment -- I know little of the subject, and agree that we have an oxymoron, but I think that BHG (in Ireland) and me (in England) should be very wary of seeking to impose our views of what can exist on a land as complex as India. I would support Twiceuponatime's suggestion or Category:Privately-run Government companies in India, both of which seem to fit the definition in the headnote better than the present title. Peterkingiron ( talk) 14:00, 4 April 2010 (UTC) reply

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

March 31

Category:Polish mathematicians of Jewish descent

Category:American female adult models

Category:Songs written by Bee Gees members

Category:People from Thunder Bay, Ontario

Category:Ice hockey players from Maine

Category:American ice hockey people by state

Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham personnel

Category:Privately owned Government companies in India

March 31

Category:Polish mathematicians of Jewish descent

Category:American female adult models

Category:Songs written by Bee Gees members

Category:People from Thunder Bay, Ontario

Category:Ice hockey players from Maine

Category:American ice hockey people by state

Category:University of Alabama at Birmingham personnel

Category:Privately owned Government companies in India

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