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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Swiss military personnel who committed suicide
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Rationale: This category contains exactly one person,
Arnold von Winkelried. It is doubtful whether this person actually existed and likely that his existence is fictional. Therefore, no apparent need for this category is evident. --
Cú Faoil (
talk)
21:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete - to judge from the article there are further doubts (supposing that he did exist) about whether he committed suicide; and indeed about whether the incident in which he perhaps died would count as suicide.
Occuli (
talk)
19:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People of Kohanim descent
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Delete per previous rationale (and possibly speedy very soon as recreation of deleted category). This is predominantly a surnames category, not a 'people by descent' category (which is for people of relatively recent descent, not from millenia ago).
Occuli (
talk)
13:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep, Rename
Category:Jewish surnames associated with Kohanim and Prune (danish?) While the title appears to imply that the category includes individuals who trace their descent to
Aaron, the category as it exists includes family names associated with
Kohanim.
Category:Kohen surnames might be a better (and more concise) alternative. This would be an appropriate category within the overall reconstruction of
Category:Jewish surnames, and a corresponding category for
Levites should also exist under its parent
Category:Levites. While doing the pruning to remove non-surname article, a prune danish would help provide the needed energy for the arduous task.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I have no objection to this (eg
Category:Kohen surnames) although there has been a great deal of activity recently with surname categories with very specific positions taken up and fortified, notably by W A Simpson. (Google immediately supplies a NJ supplier of Prune Danish, so Alansohn might be well-placed for all aspects of the pruning, en route to Dunkin' Donuts.)
Occuli (
talk)
17:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep but purge. Having the surname "Cohen" and cognates indicates descent from the priests of the Jewish temple. This is a special class of Levites. Accordingly it is highly significant. However there is no reason for Finkelstein to be included. Rename to
Category:Kohanim surnames.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete this is ridiculous category based on pure OR. Having a Kohen-related surname does not "indicate[] descent from the priests of the Jewish temple" as claimed above. Jewishness travels by the mother's line, not the father's; and there is no indication that the surname was in any widespread use in Continential Europe until Napoleonic times or in the middle east for that matter until people stopped being named A son of B. And a last but obvious point: there are no Cohens who have been adopted, changed names, or Cohen wives who gave birth to another man's children? What fantastic sources does one have for any attempt to categorize BLPs thus?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
19:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete, mostly unverifiable OR applied to generic surnames. If there were a significant number of individual where reliable sources confirmed the relation, there might be some basis for such a category.
older ≠
wiser15:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:The Banana Wars military units
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
rename per nom When I created this category, I expected that some non-US units might show up here. They have not--perhaps only the US military was the only military involved. So this rename is in good order.
Hmains (
talk)
19:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:User en-hk
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - "This user is a speaker of
Hong Kong English."; "Hong Kong English in theory, refers to the accent and characteristics of English spoken by Hongkongers. In practice, it is often considered, especially by the locals, as the Hong Kong variant of Engrish" - Unneeded babel category. No need to create babel categories for dialects such as this. My personal rule of thumb is that we shouldn't have language categories for spoken languages that don't currently have and don't have a reasonable probability of ever having a Wikipedia in its own language. Precedent to delete similar categories
here.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Just speaking a language does not make someone an expert on that language, especially for encyclopedia purposes. Writing about the language simply because they speak it sounds like original research. Additionally, Hong Kong English is a very narrow area and a category for expertise on this sounds like a "Wikipedians by too narrow of a subject area" category, where any potential collaboration would be better served on the talk page rather than a category.
VegaDark (
talk)
16:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, the only reason I see for categorizing users by language at all, is to show relative expertise in an area, ie. their language. If it's not useful to categorize people in such a manner, then all language categories for users should be deleted, since Wikipedia is not a social club, and the only other reason to categorize people by languages that they know is for socializing.
76.66.193.221 (
talk)
06:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
It is my understanding that users are categorized by language in order for them to possibly help with translation (either articles or messages from other users). No such use is necessary for "Hong Kong English".
VegaDark (
talk)
17:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment I created the cat, and I would like to state that this means that the user can read both American and British English, since hong Kong generally accepts both. It also means that British English is preferred by the user, since British English is used more frequently in Hong Kong. I shall not mind if this category is deleted; I am only giving an explanation. Thanks, Kayau Wuthering HeightsVANITY FAIRparadise lost01:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The great thing about American and British English is that they are almost exactly the same, and and anyone who can read one can almost certainly read the other, barring some sort of confusion over specific words in very limited instances. I don't think a category for someone to show they can "read both American and British English" is useful whatsoever. Nobody is going to go to one of these people and say "Hey, this page is written in American English, can you translate it to British English for me?". I also don't see any encyclopedic value in maintaining a category for users who prefer British English. Why would someone specifically seek out a user in this category because of a preference to English?
VegaDark (
talk)
17:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Non-Hongkongers may have difficulty understanding what a 'body check' is. Besides, AmE and BrE have some idioms that don't exist in the other. Would a BrE speaker, for example, know what 'close but no cigar' means? (Would a speaker of AmE or BrE understand the australian term, 'go bung'?) Also, words like 'feces' is often quite difficult to understand for me, though perhaps that isn't true for others. I personally think that it may be useful for you to check to
Hong Kong English page and some other pages on American and British English. Kayau Wuthering HeightsVANITY FAIRparadise lost02:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I'd love to see those deleted as well, if they aren't already. As I said, we should delete all language categories for "languages" without a Wikipedia or with no real chance of ever getting one. This includes every dialect of English (except "simple english", since we do have a Wikipedia for that).
VegaDark (
talk)
16:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The same idiomatic argument could be made of any regional dialect variant. English speakers in the Northern US are frequently utterly baffled by the slang and dialectical components of "Southern English" and vice-versa. Even English within the same rough geographical boundaries has variations, idioms and slang unique to smaller semi-regional, state or even city-level sub-divisions. The argument below about Indian legal jargon is in the end uncompelling because professional jargon is as a rule fairly impenetrable to those outside the profession anyway. I'm a native American English speaker and have even had some legal training but I still have to refresh myself on such terms of art as "collateral estoppel" or "replevin" when I run across them.
Otto4711 (
talk)
22:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I do not see why this should not exist, but would oppose categories for US and UK English. I suspect that there will be local jargon, as a result of partially translating Chinese terms. I have contact with a speaker of Indian English, and frequently have to ask him what certain compound nouns (for example relating to Indian law) mean.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Oppose Since this a distinct dialect, and not just a matter of pronounciation, I think we should keep this. It may be, that this sets a precedent, but I can live with that.
Debresser (
talk)
16:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep If people are willing to self-identify in this manner it should be retained as an aid to collaboration. The argument that something should be deleted because it is "unneeded" is never a good argument for deletion of anything.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Wikipedians that create userboxes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Category:Wikipedians play Puyo Puyo
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - Needs a rename at the very least, as this is missing a "who" in the title. However, this should be deleted since it is a "Wikipedians by video game" category, which have all been deleted since knowing who plays a particular game does not benefit the encyclopedia. See
here for unanimous precedent to delete similar categories.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
My bad on both counts, I actually didn't know you couldn't do Wikipedians by Videogames categories. I pretty much copied the XChat userbutton and modified it, and since the encyclopedic value of knowing users who use XChat is pretty much no more than knowing who plays a Video Game I figured it wasn't a big deal. Sorry.
On the other hand, does this mean that the Wikipedians who use XChat page should be nominated for deletion as well?
Nmn (
talk)
04:57, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I fully agree that the XChat category should be deleted, and in fact I have a nomination already written up for it. Unfortunately there is a user here that I anticipate will fight tooth and nail to keep it (they threatened to report me to ArbCom the last time I enacted a CFD closure related to an IRC category they wanted kept), so I've put it off for the time being.
VegaDark (
talk)
16:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:User:AndrewGNF/SWL/PPI
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - Individual user categories, which have a unanimous precedent for deletion (see
here). Users should use the prefix index for finding pages in their userspace, not categories.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Ohio Appalachia categories
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Swiss military personnel who committed suicide
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Rationale: This category contains exactly one person,
Arnold von Winkelried. It is doubtful whether this person actually existed and likely that his existence is fictional. Therefore, no apparent need for this category is evident. --
Cú Faoil (
talk)
21:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete - to judge from the article there are further doubts (supposing that he did exist) about whether he committed suicide; and indeed about whether the incident in which he perhaps died would count as suicide.
Occuli (
talk)
19:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People of Kohanim descent
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Delete per previous rationale (and possibly speedy very soon as recreation of deleted category). This is predominantly a surnames category, not a 'people by descent' category (which is for people of relatively recent descent, not from millenia ago).
Occuli (
talk)
13:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep, Rename
Category:Jewish surnames associated with Kohanim and Prune (danish?) While the title appears to imply that the category includes individuals who trace their descent to
Aaron, the category as it exists includes family names associated with
Kohanim.
Category:Kohen surnames might be a better (and more concise) alternative. This would be an appropriate category within the overall reconstruction of
Category:Jewish surnames, and a corresponding category for
Levites should also exist under its parent
Category:Levites. While doing the pruning to remove non-surname article, a prune danish would help provide the needed energy for the arduous task.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I have no objection to this (eg
Category:Kohen surnames) although there has been a great deal of activity recently with surname categories with very specific positions taken up and fortified, notably by W A Simpson. (Google immediately supplies a NJ supplier of Prune Danish, so Alansohn might be well-placed for all aspects of the pruning, en route to Dunkin' Donuts.)
Occuli (
talk)
17:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep but purge. Having the surname "Cohen" and cognates indicates descent from the priests of the Jewish temple. This is a special class of Levites. Accordingly it is highly significant. However there is no reason for Finkelstein to be included. Rename to
Category:Kohanim surnames.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete this is ridiculous category based on pure OR. Having a Kohen-related surname does not "indicate[] descent from the priests of the Jewish temple" as claimed above. Jewishness travels by the mother's line, not the father's; and there is no indication that the surname was in any widespread use in Continential Europe until Napoleonic times or in the middle east for that matter until people stopped being named A son of B. And a last but obvious point: there are no Cohens who have been adopted, changed names, or Cohen wives who gave birth to another man's children? What fantastic sources does one have for any attempt to categorize BLPs thus?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk)
19:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete, mostly unverifiable OR applied to generic surnames. If there were a significant number of individual where reliable sources confirmed the relation, there might be some basis for such a category.
older ≠
wiser15:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:The Banana Wars military units
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
rename per nom When I created this category, I expected that some non-US units might show up here. They have not--perhaps only the US military was the only military involved. So this rename is in good order.
Hmains (
talk)
19:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:User en-hk
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - "This user is a speaker of
Hong Kong English."; "Hong Kong English in theory, refers to the accent and characteristics of English spoken by Hongkongers. In practice, it is often considered, especially by the locals, as the Hong Kong variant of Engrish" - Unneeded babel category. No need to create babel categories for dialects such as this. My personal rule of thumb is that we shouldn't have language categories for spoken languages that don't currently have and don't have a reasonable probability of ever having a Wikipedia in its own language. Precedent to delete similar categories
here.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Just speaking a language does not make someone an expert on that language, especially for encyclopedia purposes. Writing about the language simply because they speak it sounds like original research. Additionally, Hong Kong English is a very narrow area and a category for expertise on this sounds like a "Wikipedians by too narrow of a subject area" category, where any potential collaboration would be better served on the talk page rather than a category.
VegaDark (
talk)
16:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, the only reason I see for categorizing users by language at all, is to show relative expertise in an area, ie. their language. If it's not useful to categorize people in such a manner, then all language categories for users should be deleted, since Wikipedia is not a social club, and the only other reason to categorize people by languages that they know is for socializing.
76.66.193.221 (
talk)
06:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
It is my understanding that users are categorized by language in order for them to possibly help with translation (either articles or messages from other users). No such use is necessary for "Hong Kong English".
VegaDark (
talk)
17:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment I created the cat, and I would like to state that this means that the user can read both American and British English, since hong Kong generally accepts both. It also means that British English is preferred by the user, since British English is used more frequently in Hong Kong. I shall not mind if this category is deleted; I am only giving an explanation. Thanks, Kayau Wuthering HeightsVANITY FAIRparadise lost01:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The great thing about American and British English is that they are almost exactly the same, and and anyone who can read one can almost certainly read the other, barring some sort of confusion over specific words in very limited instances. I don't think a category for someone to show they can "read both American and British English" is useful whatsoever. Nobody is going to go to one of these people and say "Hey, this page is written in American English, can you translate it to British English for me?". I also don't see any encyclopedic value in maintaining a category for users who prefer British English. Why would someone specifically seek out a user in this category because of a preference to English?
VegaDark (
talk)
17:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Non-Hongkongers may have difficulty understanding what a 'body check' is. Besides, AmE and BrE have some idioms that don't exist in the other. Would a BrE speaker, for example, know what 'close but no cigar' means? (Would a speaker of AmE or BrE understand the australian term, 'go bung'?) Also, words like 'feces' is often quite difficult to understand for me, though perhaps that isn't true for others. I personally think that it may be useful for you to check to
Hong Kong English page and some other pages on American and British English. Kayau Wuthering HeightsVANITY FAIRparadise lost02:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I'd love to see those deleted as well, if they aren't already. As I said, we should delete all language categories for "languages" without a Wikipedia or with no real chance of ever getting one. This includes every dialect of English (except "simple english", since we do have a Wikipedia for that).
VegaDark (
talk)
16:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The same idiomatic argument could be made of any regional dialect variant. English speakers in the Northern US are frequently utterly baffled by the slang and dialectical components of "Southern English" and vice-versa. Even English within the same rough geographical boundaries has variations, idioms and slang unique to smaller semi-regional, state or even city-level sub-divisions. The argument below about Indian legal jargon is in the end uncompelling because professional jargon is as a rule fairly impenetrable to those outside the profession anyway. I'm a native American English speaker and have even had some legal training but I still have to refresh myself on such terms of art as "collateral estoppel" or "replevin" when I run across them.
Otto4711 (
talk)
22:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment -- I do not see why this should not exist, but would oppose categories for US and UK English. I suspect that there will be local jargon, as a result of partially translating Chinese terms. I have contact with a speaker of Indian English, and frequently have to ask him what certain compound nouns (for example relating to Indian law) mean.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
22:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Oppose Since this a distinct dialect, and not just a matter of pronounciation, I think we should keep this. It may be, that this sets a precedent, but I can live with that.
Debresser (
talk)
16:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Keep If people are willing to self-identify in this manner it should be retained as an aid to collaboration. The argument that something should be deleted because it is "unneeded" is never a good argument for deletion of anything.
Alansohn (
talk)
15:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Wikipedians that create userboxes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Wikipedians play Puyo Puyo
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - Needs a rename at the very least, as this is missing a "who" in the title. However, this should be deleted since it is a "Wikipedians by video game" category, which have all been deleted since knowing who plays a particular game does not benefit the encyclopedia. See
here for unanimous precedent to delete similar categories.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
My bad on both counts, I actually didn't know you couldn't do Wikipedians by Videogames categories. I pretty much copied the XChat userbutton and modified it, and since the encyclopedic value of knowing users who use XChat is pretty much no more than knowing who plays a Video Game I figured it wasn't a big deal. Sorry.
On the other hand, does this mean that the Wikipedians who use XChat page should be nominated for deletion as well?
Nmn (
talk)
04:57, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I fully agree that the XChat category should be deleted, and in fact I have a nomination already written up for it. Unfortunately there is a user here that I anticipate will fight tooth and nail to keep it (they threatened to report me to ArbCom the last time I enacted a CFD closure related to an IRC category they wanted kept), so I've put it off for the time being.
VegaDark (
talk)
16:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:User:AndrewGNF/SWL/PPI
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:Delete - Individual user categories, which have a unanimous precedent for deletion (see
here). Users should use the prefix index for finding pages in their userspace, not categories.
VegaDark (
talk)
01:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Ohio Appalachia categories
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.