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The result of the discussion was:Rename as nominated. (It's not cool to move the main article during the discussion, which was done here twice by an editor, and was each time rightfully reversed.)Good Ol’factory(talk)09:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
(after ec)
Foo, Poland is the standard naming articles for towns in Poland, and the categories are named to match. Thus, the article for Police is at
Police, Poland. If it was an article about Poland's police force, for instance, it wouldn't be disambiguated that way - "Police, Poland" is a highly unlikely name for such an article or category. Other places which sthare their names with other objects are standardly disambiguated in this way (e.g.,
Venus, Romania,
Hell, Norway,
Gold, California, and
Banana, Queensland).
Grutness...wha?01:08, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Ottoman Macedonia (Greece/ROM/Bulgaria)
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Comment -- In principle I agree, but the issue is highly political. All three seem to be parts of
Salonika Province, Ottoman Empire, which suggests that the area had not political unity even in 1864-1913 when that province existed. The question that needs to be answered is, "How can we define Macedonia in the Ottoman period?" I have no answer to that.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
12:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment No reason this needs to be highly political. I think all historians from all countries would agree that the current borders were not relevant in the Ottoman period. Perhaps the solution is simply to rename
Category:Ottoman Macedonia to
Category:Salonika Province, Ottoman Empire? As you point out, that province only existed relatively briefly (compared to the Rumeli eyalet), but it does seem to be a meaningful unit in the context of the
Struggle for Macedonia and the Balkan Wars. --
macrakis (
talk)
13:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Post-1864 Ottoman Macedonia (region) is divided in three eyalets
Salonika,
Monastir and
Kosovo. The one categorization does not exclude the other. (Early and Late Ottoman Macedonia) but even in the wiki-articles, there is no mention that this person was born in the Monastir or Salonika Ottoman Province.
Catalographer (
talk)
19:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
So Ottoman Macedonia seems like the appropriate category. I still have seen no rationale for using the modern borders in subcategorizing it. --
macrakis (
talk)
20:36, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
For the simple reason that the one subcategory belongs to the History of the Republic of Macedonia and Ottoman-era Macedonia (Greece) to Category: Ottoman Greece like Ottoman Crete.
Catalographer (
talk)
10:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)reply
Further comment I am commenting again because some one asked me to. I agree that categorisation of ancient entities by modern country is undesirable. The categorisation cited in the case of Toron seems appropriate, since it is located in modern Lebanon, but this is a single place. The issue that I raised over Ottoman Macedonia is of how its limits should be defined, sicne other articles do not appear to indicate what its legal extent was. If some one can provide a robust definition of its extent, I see no reason why there should not be an "Ottoman Macedonia" category, probably parented by multiple "history of ..." categories. However a category picking up the intersection of history + former state + modenr state would be a highly undesirable triple intersection.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)reply
My 2 cents worth: since there was no Ottoman administrative, religious or geographic region called Macedonia, it seems futile to invent one with hindesight. Therefore, I suggest we delete that category.
Politis (
talk)
16:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Serie C1 and Serie C2
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Nominator's rationale: These Italian footbal clubs have been renamed, and thus there are duplicate categories. Since the new name is the Lega Pro Prima and Seconda Divisione, all tagged article should be merged under the new name. --
NickPenguin(
contribs)20:55, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Croix de Guerre (France)
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Nominator's rationale:Merge iot unify these two into a single category which observes naming conventions for 'Recipients' categories. --Xdamrtalk16:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:Opposition to apartheid in Namibia
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I will bring this up again; Namibia has been the internationally recognized name of the country since 1968, despite apartheid not officially ending until 1990.--
TM20:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Military awards recipients
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I take your point, but I don't think that the potential for erroneous use is too significant. There is a prominent link to
Silver Star in the category lead and given its place in the general category hierarchy I think that its purpose is clear. Possibly worth noting that the use of the official medal name, without qualification, is general practice in the 'Recipients' categories, and the main article itself is at
Silver Star. If consensus is that the danger of misuse is an issue then what about
Category:Recipients of the Silver Star (United States)? --Xdamrtalk19:33, 4 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States military honor recipients
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Military awards
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Category:Hard-bop musicians
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Oppose. As a noun "hard bop" is correct. But when used as an adjective, "hard-bop" needs to be hyphenated, so we know that these are musicians who play "hard bop" not "bop musicians" who are "hard".
Good Ol’factory(talk)22:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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LGBT-related films by sports
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Keep It's true that the number of movies in each sport category created is admittedly small, but having the individual categories creates access from the particular sports page. For example when one is checking the general
Category:Basketball films, there is a direct access from that page to lead to
Category:Basketball LGBT-related films. Although better populated categories are more useful as suggested above, by creating one single global category
Category:LGBT-related sports films, this important link let's say between all basketball movies (straight and gay) will be lost. Plus that there was never a minimum number of entries set and there are so many categories that are populated with just one or two items.
werldwayd (
talk)
11:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete - as nom notes, far too narrow an intersection. Also
small categories with little or no growth potential. Are there even any films that would fit into the baseball or basketball categories, and are there any other "Diving LGBT-related films"?
Otto4711 (
talk)
16:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete as nominated; no upmerging is needed, as each film is already categorised by sport and as LGBT-related by country. A new article,
List of LGBT-related sports films in
Category:Lists of LGBT-related films, might be a better idea, as it could contain more information e.g. country and year. It could also include films where LGBT was a notable theme but not the central one; categorising them would be
WP:OCAT but the list could state the context. -
Fayenatic(talk)21:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete. These are not really defining intersections, and having the films in two categories (one for the sport, one for LGBT) seems sufficient. Agree with Fayenatic's suggestion.
Jafeluv (
talk)
00:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete Subcats and rename parent to
Catgeory:LGBT-related sports films The subcats are either empty or severely underpopulated. The parent would effectively serve until additional films are released. The proposed alternate name better describes the category of the content, but reliable and verifiable sources must be provided that characterize the films with the rather vague description of "LGBT-related" (or a close variant thereof) to justify their inclusion.
Alansohn (
talk)
22:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:Software comparisons for mathematics-related software
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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was:Rename as nominated. (It's not cool to move the main article during the discussion, which was done here twice by an editor, and was each time rightfully reversed.)Good Ol’factory(talk)09:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
(after ec)
Foo, Poland is the standard naming articles for towns in Poland, and the categories are named to match. Thus, the article for Police is at
Police, Poland. If it was an article about Poland's police force, for instance, it wouldn't be disambiguated that way - "Police, Poland" is a highly unlikely name for such an article or category. Other places which sthare their names with other objects are standardly disambiguated in this way (e.g.,
Venus, Romania,
Hell, Norway,
Gold, California, and
Banana, Queensland).
Grutness...wha?01:08, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Ottoman Macedonia (Greece/ROM/Bulgaria)
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Comment -- In principle I agree, but the issue is highly political. All three seem to be parts of
Salonika Province, Ottoman Empire, which suggests that the area had not political unity even in 1864-1913 when that province existed. The question that needs to be answered is, "How can we define Macedonia in the Ottoman period?" I have no answer to that.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
12:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Comment No reason this needs to be highly political. I think all historians from all countries would agree that the current borders were not relevant in the Ottoman period. Perhaps the solution is simply to rename
Category:Ottoman Macedonia to
Category:Salonika Province, Ottoman Empire? As you point out, that province only existed relatively briefly (compared to the Rumeli eyalet), but it does seem to be a meaningful unit in the context of the
Struggle for Macedonia and the Balkan Wars. --
macrakis (
talk)
13:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Post-1864 Ottoman Macedonia (region) is divided in three eyalets
Salonika,
Monastir and
Kosovo. The one categorization does not exclude the other. (Early and Late Ottoman Macedonia) but even in the wiki-articles, there is no mention that this person was born in the Monastir or Salonika Ottoman Province.
Catalographer (
talk)
19:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
So Ottoman Macedonia seems like the appropriate category. I still have seen no rationale for using the modern borders in subcategorizing it. --
macrakis (
talk)
20:36, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
For the simple reason that the one subcategory belongs to the History of the Republic of Macedonia and Ottoman-era Macedonia (Greece) to Category: Ottoman Greece like Ottoman Crete.
Catalographer (
talk)
10:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)reply
Further comment I am commenting again because some one asked me to. I agree that categorisation of ancient entities by modern country is undesirable. The categorisation cited in the case of Toron seems appropriate, since it is located in modern Lebanon, but this is a single place. The issue that I raised over Ottoman Macedonia is of how its limits should be defined, sicne other articles do not appear to indicate what its legal extent was. If some one can provide a robust definition of its extent, I see no reason why there should not be an "Ottoman Macedonia" category, probably parented by multiple "history of ..." categories. However a category picking up the intersection of history + former state + modenr state would be a highly undesirable triple intersection.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)reply
My 2 cents worth: since there was no Ottoman administrative, religious or geographic region called Macedonia, it seems futile to invent one with hindesight. Therefore, I suggest we delete that category.
Politis (
talk)
16:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Serie C1 and Serie C2
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
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Nominator's rationale: These Italian footbal clubs have been renamed, and thus there are duplicate categories. Since the new name is the Lega Pro Prima and Seconda Divisione, all tagged article should be merged under the new name. --
NickPenguin(
contribs)20:55, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Croix de Guerre (France)
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Nominator's rationale:Merge iot unify these two into a single category which observes naming conventions for 'Recipients' categories. --Xdamrtalk16:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:Opposition to apartheid in Namibia
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I will bring this up again; Namibia has been the internationally recognized name of the country since 1968, despite apartheid not officially ending until 1990.--
TM20:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Military awards recipients
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I take your point, but I don't think that the potential for erroneous use is too significant. There is a prominent link to
Silver Star in the category lead and given its place in the general category hierarchy I think that its purpose is clear. Possibly worth noting that the use of the official medal name, without qualification, is general practice in the 'Recipients' categories, and the main article itself is at
Silver Star. If consensus is that the danger of misuse is an issue then what about
Category:Recipients of the Silver Star (United States)? --Xdamrtalk19:33, 4 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:United States military honor recipients
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Military awards
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Category:Hard-bop musicians
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Oppose. As a noun "hard bop" is correct. But when used as an adjective, "hard-bop" needs to be hyphenated, so we know that these are musicians who play "hard bop" not "bop musicians" who are "hard".
Good Ol’factory(talk)22:13, 7 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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LGBT-related films by sports
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Keep It's true that the number of movies in each sport category created is admittedly small, but having the individual categories creates access from the particular sports page. For example when one is checking the general
Category:Basketball films, there is a direct access from that page to lead to
Category:Basketball LGBT-related films. Although better populated categories are more useful as suggested above, by creating one single global category
Category:LGBT-related sports films, this important link let's say between all basketball movies (straight and gay) will be lost. Plus that there was never a minimum number of entries set and there are so many categories that are populated with just one or two items.
werldwayd (
talk)
11:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete - as nom notes, far too narrow an intersection. Also
small categories with little or no growth potential. Are there even any films that would fit into the baseball or basketball categories, and are there any other "Diving LGBT-related films"?
Otto4711 (
talk)
16:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete as nominated; no upmerging is needed, as each film is already categorised by sport and as LGBT-related by country. A new article,
List of LGBT-related sports films in
Category:Lists of LGBT-related films, might be a better idea, as it could contain more information e.g. country and year. It could also include films where LGBT was a notable theme but not the central one; categorising them would be
WP:OCAT but the list could state the context. -
Fayenatic(talk)21:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete. These are not really defining intersections, and having the films in two categories (one for the sport, one for LGBT) seems sufficient. Agree with Fayenatic's suggestion.
Jafeluv (
talk)
00:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Delete Subcats and rename parent to
Catgeory:LGBT-related sports films The subcats are either empty or severely underpopulated. The parent would effectively serve until additional films are released. The proposed alternate name better describes the category of the content, but reliable and verifiable sources must be provided that characterize the films with the rather vague description of "LGBT-related" (or a close variant thereof) to justify their inclusion.
Alansohn (
talk)
22:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)reply
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Category:Software comparisons for mathematics-related software
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