Category:List of fictional characters who can manipulate wind
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The result of the discussion was:delete, speedy G4.
Kbdank71 13:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shakespeare academia
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This sounds good to me; if other editors agree I will support this proposal. And thanks for drawing my attention to that wonderfully amusing and edifying article on
The Klingon Hamlet! :)
Cgingold (
talk) 02:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support modified proposal:
Category:Shakespearean scholarship. Consistent with related cats, better matches the contents of the cat, and things we need this category for. (several supporters and no apparent dissent -> effectuate?) --
Xover (
talk) 11:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Places associated with Shakespeare
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support New name is consistent with related categories. --
Xover (
talk) 12:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Relations to Shakespeare
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support rename per nom. No delete, unlike the examples given Shakespeare's family tree is a subject of considerable research and would pass Notability test as an article, much less a category. --
Xover (
talk) 12:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:People, places, and things named for ...
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete both per
Wikipedia:OC#Unrelated_subjects_with_shared_names. There is no relationship between the things included in these categories beyond happening to have been named for a particular person. Then delete the parent as empty.
Otto4711 (
talk) 22:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
How is
George Washington Carver related to a
George Washington class submarine? If GW class submarines were called "
Hedda Hopper class submarines," would there be any relationship between them and GWC? If not then the only relationship between them is shared name. For that matter, how are any but the couple of things that Washington himself actually supported even related to Washington, other than by happening to have been named for him?
Otto4711 (
talk) 22:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"Sharing names" (as in the 'Jones' example that motivates
WP:OC#SHAREDNAMES) is not the same thing as a namesake. Of course Hedda Hopper class subs wouldn't be related to GWC, but (again) the relationship that exists among
GW's namesakes is that they are all named after GW. You can't say it's an "unrelated subject" when something gets its name to honor or recognize the namesake. Maybe that relationship belongs in a list instead of a category, but it's not a case of "Unrelated subjects with shared names" like the 'Jones' example.
68.167.253.49 (
talk) 00:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC).reply
Again, please explain the encyclopedic relationship between a scientist famed for studying peanuts and a class of submarines, other than the common source of their name. That people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles and decades or centuries of time happened to name something after the same person is not only not defining, it's barely significant.
Otto4711 (
talk) 03:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete both per Otto. This is listcruft, if anything, but I don't think a category is appropriate.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 22:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Musicians from Pittsburgh
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: as per nomination immediately below
Mayumashu (
talk) 18:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Musicians from Philadelphia
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Space: Above and Beyond episodes
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: None of the pages (apart from Pilot, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't constitute a category) contained have any useful information apart from the main
List of Space: Above and Beyond episodes page. Recommend we get rid of all of them while we're at it.
Octane (
talk) 17:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete since it appears not to be necessary to listify.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep unless all of the articles are deleted or merged, for which CFD is not the appropriate forum.
Tim! (
talk) 17:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Holocaust deniers
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The result of the discussion was:keep.
Kbdank71 13:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Merge, It is a POV category, often used to smear people on wikipedia and applied inconsistently. It lists people who have barely mentioned their views on the
Holocaust and usually involve themselves in other pursuits.
Comradesandalio (
talk) 15:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Holocaust denial is a fairly well-developed viewpoint. It isn't POV, as the folks categorized that way have announced their opinions. There is some gray area when folks dney aspects of the Holocaust, but it isn't a big enough problem to delete the category.
·:· Will Beback·:· 19:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep merging to the main category hardly solves potential problems. In fact the main category seems to contain a number of people who should either be here or removed from either -
Ian Jobling for example.
Johnbod (
talk) 20:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep -- "Deniers" are people. "Denial" is their intellectual position - the false POV that they hold, but some of them are notable by holding it. This is accordingly a valid category.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - I've just written new & improved inclusion criteria for this category, restricting it to individuals who actively promote Holocaust denial. The only remedy required now is to weed out those people who don't truly belong in the category. I also made it a sub-cat of
Category:Activists by issue.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
keep yet again. For all the valid reasons above. I just moved more people from the 'denial' to 'deniers' category where they belong. It would be nice if WP had some method of allowing us to watch what gets placed into categories just like we do with articles so we keep them cleaned up all the time.
Hmains (
talk) 03:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Listify and merge. I truly believe the best way for our encyclopedia to present this information is a well cited list. It avoids any problems with
WP:BLP, and presents the topic in a much more studious fashion. The problem with the current category is that it encourages categorization of people before their articles contain a well cited case that justifies their inclusion. Wikis may provide a wonderful way to grow an article, but categorization is not a wiki process. There is no easy way to track the history,and monitor and revert changes to a category. That is one of the main reasons to avoid controversial categorization. I will admit that this is right on the edge of a gray area, and our policies do not clearly put this category on one side or another. But since it can be problematic and hard to monitor, I ask myself what the disadvantage is of listifying and merging as proposed? On balance I see many advantages. The only disadvantage, is the label of "Holocaust denier" missing in the list of categories. If instead, each article had the label of "Holocaust denial", the articles would be much more likely to contain some discussion of the topic. It seems clear from the discussion so far that the need to police the current categorization can be problematic. If it is problematic, the proposal to merge, along with a cited list preserves all the information and makes the management of the information much less of a chore. I don't think categories should be seen as a badge of honor or mark of infamy. Whenever it feels that way, it is most likely an inappropriate category. I am very interested in discussion that would help clarify the gray area around these categories that might have BLP issues. I think a case can be made that "Conspiracy theorists" mentioned above is also problematic.
Rosie O'Donnell seems to have been labeled as one because she happens to agree with one conspiracy theory. This seems inappropriate to me -- a way to indirectly label someone as a crackpot for holding an unpopular belief. --
☑ SamuelWantman 04:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I'm taking your comments under consideration, Sam. But for now, I would really like to give the new, more restrictive inclusion criteria that I added a chance to prove themselves. I suppose we could also consider renaming the category to explicitly denote the fact that it is only for people who are activists. Is there any support for renaming to
Category:Promoters of Holocaust denial, or some variant thereof?
Cgingold (
talk) 12:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Living Enrichment Center
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Warcraft comics
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The result of the discussion was:delete with recreation permissible if other warcraft comics articles are found or written.
Kbdank71 13:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Has only one article in it, one article doesn't need its own category.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 04:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep there are other Warcraft comics - the big current one being the one from
DC Comics/
Wildstorm[1]. (
Emperor (
talk) 13:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC))reply
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Category:California State University, Fullerton basketball Titans men's basketball coaches
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This is an awkward title. I'd like to make it consistent with other entries in
Category:College men's basketball coaches. Please note that, in an atheltic context, the school is generally known as Cal State Fullerton.
[2]Zagalejo^^^ 03:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:California State University, Fullerton basketball players
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: I'd like to keep the general naming scheme consistent with other categories in
Category:College men's basketball players. Please note that, in an athletic context, the school is normally referred to as Cal State Fullerton:
[3].
Zagalejo^^^ 03:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Categories:Italians of Fooian descent
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The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: as per recent precedent and discussion
Mayumashu (
talk) 02:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)*reply
REname according to much recent precedent.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Albion, Michigan
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The result of the discussion was:keep. Appears to have been further populated since nomination..
Kbdank71 13:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Underpoulated and unnecessary. Only two entries and one subcat which only has two more articles in it.
Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (
Broken clamshells •
Otter chirps •
HELP) 00:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Consistent with other city categories. Only thing needed here is to add some existing articles to the category (and the new
Category:People from Albion, Michigan. Potential is there for more articles to be created.
older ≠
wiser 13:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:The Flatlinerz albums
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: The group only released one album in their career. Additionally the word "The" is not a part of their name. (
Ibaranoff24 (
talk) 00:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC))reply
Rename to remove the The, but there are hundreds of precedents for keeping the category.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 17:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That discussion has no relevance to this nomination that I can see. Please address here my nominating rationale.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 03:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - trivial. Listify if desired but unsuitable for categorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 12:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dragon Ball sagas
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 12:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: All the articles in this category are redirects to the episode list articles, which have their own category.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 00:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That discussion has no relevance to this nomination that I can see. Please address here my nominating rationale.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 03:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Sorry, thought you were pointing to the conversation in both nominations. I wouldn't mind an explanation of it in the above deletion nomination, as I really don't understand it's relevance. At least we are agreed on this one :)
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 06:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:List of fictional characters who can manipulate wind
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The result of the discussion was:delete, speedy G4.
Kbdank71 13:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Shakespeare academia
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
This sounds good to me; if other editors agree I will support this proposal. And thanks for drawing my attention to that wonderfully amusing and edifying article on
The Klingon Hamlet! :)
Cgingold (
talk) 02:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support modified proposal:
Category:Shakespearean scholarship. Consistent with related cats, better matches the contents of the cat, and things we need this category for. (several supporters and no apparent dissent -> effectuate?) --
Xover (
talk) 11:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Places associated with Shakespeare
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support New name is consistent with related categories. --
Xover (
talk) 12:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Relations to Shakespeare
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Support rename per nom. No delete, unlike the examples given Shakespeare's family tree is a subject of considerable research and would pass Notability test as an article, much less a category. --
Xover (
talk) 12:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:People, places, and things named for ...
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete both per
Wikipedia:OC#Unrelated_subjects_with_shared_names. There is no relationship between the things included in these categories beyond happening to have been named for a particular person. Then delete the parent as empty.
Otto4711 (
talk) 22:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
How is
George Washington Carver related to a
George Washington class submarine? If GW class submarines were called "
Hedda Hopper class submarines," would there be any relationship between them and GWC? If not then the only relationship between them is shared name. For that matter, how are any but the couple of things that Washington himself actually supported even related to Washington, other than by happening to have been named for him?
Otto4711 (
talk) 22:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
"Sharing names" (as in the 'Jones' example that motivates
WP:OC#SHAREDNAMES) is not the same thing as a namesake. Of course Hedda Hopper class subs wouldn't be related to GWC, but (again) the relationship that exists among
GW's namesakes is that they are all named after GW. You can't say it's an "unrelated subject" when something gets its name to honor or recognize the namesake. Maybe that relationship belongs in a list instead of a category, but it's not a case of "Unrelated subjects with shared names" like the 'Jones' example.
68.167.253.49 (
talk) 00:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC).reply
Again, please explain the encyclopedic relationship between a scientist famed for studying peanuts and a class of submarines, other than the common source of their name. That people separated by hundreds or thousands of miles and decades or centuries of time happened to name something after the same person is not only not defining, it's barely significant.
Otto4711 (
talk) 03:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete both per Otto. This is listcruft, if anything, but I don't think a category is appropriate.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 22:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Musicians from Pittsburgh
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: as per nomination immediately below
Mayumashu (
talk) 18:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Musicians from Philadelphia
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Space: Above and Beyond episodes
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: None of the pages (apart from Pilot, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't constitute a category) contained have any useful information apart from the main
List of Space: Above and Beyond episodes page. Recommend we get rid of all of them while we're at it.
Octane (
talk) 17:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete since it appears not to be necessary to listify.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep unless all of the articles are deleted or merged, for which CFD is not the appropriate forum.
Tim! (
talk) 17:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Holocaust deniers
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:keep.
Kbdank71 13:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Merge, It is a POV category, often used to smear people on wikipedia and applied inconsistently. It lists people who have barely mentioned their views on the
Holocaust and usually involve themselves in other pursuits.
Comradesandalio (
talk) 15:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Holocaust denial is a fairly well-developed viewpoint. It isn't POV, as the folks categorized that way have announced their opinions. There is some gray area when folks dney aspects of the Holocaust, but it isn't a big enough problem to delete the category.
·:· Will Beback·:· 19:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep merging to the main category hardly solves potential problems. In fact the main category seems to contain a number of people who should either be here or removed from either -
Ian Jobling for example.
Johnbod (
talk) 20:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep -- "Deniers" are people. "Denial" is their intellectual position - the false POV that they hold, but some of them are notable by holding it. This is accordingly a valid category.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - I've just written new & improved inclusion criteria for this category, restricting it to individuals who actively promote Holocaust denial. The only remedy required now is to weed out those people who don't truly belong in the category. I also made it a sub-cat of
Category:Activists by issue.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
keep yet again. For all the valid reasons above. I just moved more people from the 'denial' to 'deniers' category where they belong. It would be nice if WP had some method of allowing us to watch what gets placed into categories just like we do with articles so we keep them cleaned up all the time.
Hmains (
talk) 03:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Listify and merge. I truly believe the best way for our encyclopedia to present this information is a well cited list. It avoids any problems with
WP:BLP, and presents the topic in a much more studious fashion. The problem with the current category is that it encourages categorization of people before their articles contain a well cited case that justifies their inclusion. Wikis may provide a wonderful way to grow an article, but categorization is not a wiki process. There is no easy way to track the history,and monitor and revert changes to a category. That is one of the main reasons to avoid controversial categorization. I will admit that this is right on the edge of a gray area, and our policies do not clearly put this category on one side or another. But since it can be problematic and hard to monitor, I ask myself what the disadvantage is of listifying and merging as proposed? On balance I see many advantages. The only disadvantage, is the label of "Holocaust denier" missing in the list of categories. If instead, each article had the label of "Holocaust denial", the articles would be much more likely to contain some discussion of the topic. It seems clear from the discussion so far that the need to police the current categorization can be problematic. If it is problematic, the proposal to merge, along with a cited list preserves all the information and makes the management of the information much less of a chore. I don't think categories should be seen as a badge of honor or mark of infamy. Whenever it feels that way, it is most likely an inappropriate category. I am very interested in discussion that would help clarify the gray area around these categories that might have BLP issues. I think a case can be made that "Conspiracy theorists" mentioned above is also problematic.
Rosie O'Donnell seems to have been labeled as one because she happens to agree with one conspiracy theory. This seems inappropriate to me -- a way to indirectly label someone as a crackpot for holding an unpopular belief. --
☑ SamuelWantman 04:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
I'm taking your comments under consideration, Sam. But for now, I would really like to give the new, more restrictive inclusion criteria that I added a chance to prove themselves. I suppose we could also consider renaming the category to explicitly denote the fact that it is only for people who are activists. Is there any support for renaming to
Category:Promoters of Holocaust denial, or some variant thereof?
Cgingold (
talk) 12:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Living Enrichment Center
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Warcraft comics
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete with recreation permissible if other warcraft comics articles are found or written.
Kbdank71 13:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Has only one article in it, one article doesn't need its own category.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 04:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep there are other Warcraft comics - the big current one being the one from
DC Comics/
Wildstorm[1]. (
Emperor (
talk) 13:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC))reply
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Category:California State University, Fullerton basketball Titans men's basketball coaches
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This is an awkward title. I'd like to make it consistent with other entries in
Category:College men's basketball coaches. Please note that, in an atheltic context, the school is generally known as Cal State Fullerton.
[2]Zagalejo^^^ 03:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:California State University, Fullerton basketball players
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: I'd like to keep the general naming scheme consistent with other categories in
Category:College men's basketball players. Please note that, in an athletic context, the school is normally referred to as Cal State Fullerton:
[3].
Zagalejo^^^ 03:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Categories:Italians of Fooian descent
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The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: as per recent precedent and discussion
Mayumashu (
talk) 02:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)*reply
REname according to much recent precedent.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 00:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Albion, Michigan
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The result of the discussion was:keep. Appears to have been further populated since nomination..
Kbdank71 13:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Underpoulated and unnecessary. Only two entries and one subcat which only has two more articles in it.
Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (
Broken clamshells •
Otter chirps •
HELP) 00:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Consistent with other city categories. Only thing needed here is to add some existing articles to the category (and the new
Category:People from Albion, Michigan. Potential is there for more articles to be created.
older ≠
wiser 13:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:The Flatlinerz albums
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: The group only released one album in their career. Additionally the word "The" is not a part of their name. (
Ibaranoff24 (
talk) 00:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC))reply
Rename to remove the The, but there are hundreds of precedents for keeping the category.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 17:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That discussion has no relevance to this nomination that I can see. Please address here my nominating rationale.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 03:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - trivial. Listify if desired but unsuitable for categorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 12:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Dragon Ball sagas
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 12:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: All the articles in this category are redirects to the episode list articles, which have their own category.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 00:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
That discussion has no relevance to this nomination that I can see. Please address here my nominating rationale.
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 03:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)reply
Sorry, thought you were pointing to the conversation in both nominations. I wouldn't mind an explanation of it in the above deletion nomination, as I really don't understand it's relevance. At least we are agreed on this one :)
Judgesurreal777 (
talk) 06:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)reply
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