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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Barring some sort of legal or official classification as a "Major City", which I am not aware of, this means of classification can only be done in a POV way or by using arbitrary inclusionary criteria, which if there are any are not defined. Notified creator with {{
subst:cfd-notify}}Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete I doubt if this can be made NPOV (even
Exeter and
Plymouth are there - these are surely middling cities at most).
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 23:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete as undefined and probable NPOV.--
Lenticel(
talk) 00:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete: entirely arbitrary classification, and impossible to keep NPOV. --
RFBailey (
talk) 03:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Grounds for inclusion are far too vague. --
Sakurambo桜ん坊 07:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete no sound logical basis given for inclusion in this group, can't be kept NPOV. On the same basis, I think another category -
Category:Landmarks in Wales should be deleted too.
Avebury (
talk) 10:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete without an 'official' list of major cities in the UK, a few random journalistic opinions (often in a completely different context) do not constitute sufficiently strong or objective sources.
Pondle (
talk) 17:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per nom --
T-
rex 21:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Japanese expatriate footballers
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge both.
Kbdank71 15:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: convention (as it stands) does not have it to categorize people by occupation by continent; suggested merger would fit the largely established rubric
Category:Expatriate footballers by nationalityMayumashu (
talk) 22:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Unusual and unnecessary intersections.
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 00:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Merge: Good suggestion. --
Sakurambo桜ん坊 08:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Arab Air Carriers Organization
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Rename. Clarify what the contents of the category are.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bands with female lead singers
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, this can be especially a case of dispute in groups where there is no set lead singer, such as
Little Big Town -- that group is composed of two women and two men, all of whom rotate lead vocals (sometimes within the same song). And why does it have to be "half" the contributions? Do
Lady Antebellum, for example, split the lead vocals 50/50 between their two lead vocalists (one male, one female)? Et cetera.
Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (
Broken clamshells•
Otter chirps) 19:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - Notable, well-sourced, and valuable for our users interested in music-related subjects. Regarding bands with more than one lead singer, please actually read the text at the category itself, which states: "These are bands who have or have had a female member who contributes at least half of the vocals." There are many fewer bands with female lead singers, thus the need for this category. We have
Category:African-American singers but no
Category:European-American singers for this reason.
Badagnani (
talk) 19:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete. I doubt this is half the notable bands, but it sure is a whole lot of them nonetheless.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 19:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete as overcategorization based on sex.
Otto4711 (
talk) 21:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Overcategorization.
Lugnuts (
talk) 07:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per precident with Category:Mixed-gender musical groups --
T-
rex 21:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:G-Unit Records articles with comments
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - whether an article has comments on its talk page is a trivial basis for categorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - trivial is an over-statement in this case.
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 15:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Joint venture G-Unit Records artists
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:upmerge.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - categorizing artists by the method through which they are signed to a particular record label is overcategorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:15, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:G'$ Up
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - unnecessary eponymous overcategorization for a record label's sub-label.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:13, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Crime Mob
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:M.O.P.
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - completely unnecessary eponymous overcategorization. Part of a walled garden for G-Unit that was previously dismantled but is now back under construction.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Crime by city in the US
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
By prior precedent, most city articles and categories for US cities include the ", state" after the name of the city.
Rename all per nom. I've made a couple of very similar mass-nominations, so I definitely support this one. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 17:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Sports teams by city in the US
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
By prior precedent, most city articles and categories for US cities include the ", state" after the name of the city. All of these categories' parents are of that form (links provided, because I'm such a nice guy). Only the categories relating to cities have been nominated. Categories such as
Category:Sports in the Dallas-Fort Worth area or
Category:Sports in the Quad Cities which sometimes cloud the issue have been left off my list.
Neier (
talk) 13:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose unless the categorization guidelines clearly state that the target categories are not restricted to the city proper. Otherwise a large number of articles will need to be edited to manually remove them.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 19:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I think it's safe to say that the Pistons belong in the Detroit category despite playing in Auburn Hills. They're definitely part of the city.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 01:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
As much a part of the city as the Colts were in Baltimore, the football Cardinals were in St. Louis, and the Raiders were in LA no doubt. It's a business, businesses move to greener pastures, and moving to the 'burbs is moving out of the city - and out of its categories... Just like we don't put the mayors of Auburn Hills in
Category:Mayors of Detroit.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Mayors in Auburn Hills have no effect on Detroit. The Pistons do. They belong in a category about Detroit. And besides, how is the category as currently named not about Detroit? It isn't "Sports within 30 miles of Detroit, give or take." Adding the state affects this perception in no way at all.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 23:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all - per nom by city with state.
Steam5 (
talk) 20:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all per nom. As for Vegaswikian's comment, I think it's safe to say that most editors put all teams or venues in the metropolitan area within each city's category. That's what I've been doing all along. —
Dale Arnett (
talk) 03:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all per nom. I've made a couple of very similar mass-nominations, so I definitely support this one. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 17:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment if these are renamed, they need to be manually pruned per Vegaswikian. Accuracy, verifiability over subjective POV inclusion by how far from town something gets and still is in the category: Golden State Warriors in San Francisco, any one?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
That presumes that the presence or absence of the state in the category name makes any difference to the scope of the category. I didn't see that it made any difference the first time Vegaswikian raised the complaint, and I still do not. And if it makes no difference to the scope of the category, then there is no need to for any effort to clean up the scope of the categories as part of the rename effort. That's not to say that any such clean-up should or should not happen, but I just don't see such a scope cleanup as having anything to do with this rename, as IMHO the rename has nothing to do with the scope of the categories. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 20:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I've never understood how Detroit, Michigan is somehow less accurate or more restrictive than Detroit either. If The Golden State Warriors are located in San Francisco, California is incorrect, then what makes The Golden State Warriors are located in San Francisco acceptable?
Neier (
talk) 00:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
That's why we need to clarify how the category name affects the contents. There have been comments about a rename to include the state saying to remove everything not in the city limits. Without the state, there was consensus to include the surrounding areas. I thing I once suggested that these be renamed to metropolitan area to eliminate any confusion but that did not gain support. The comments above about pruning clearly indicate that after a rename like this, there is by clearly confusion as to what the category contains. Personally a rename to metropolitan area would be the least confusing and is probably the best approach. That allows someone to add city specific tags if they desire. If you complete a rename like this, and I wanted to list the articles about sports that are actually in the city of Las Vegas what category name would I use?
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Massacres by Americans
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. It is a different category. It includes massacres done by the Americans around the world. Massacres inside the US are just a part of it.--
Mani1 (
talk) 11:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Agree with Mani1 above; things done by Americans are different from things done in America. Massacres by Americans are notable enough to necessitate a cat. • Freechild'sup? 13:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - Current category reflects articles on an international scale, and I'd bet that there are articles in the Massacres in the United States article that aren't of Massacres by Americans.
Mastrchf (t/c) 14:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment: On the whole I'm afraid this is a poorly conceived category. I have very mixed feelings about it, but I'm leaning towards delete. To begin with, as ably laid out by Dual Freq, the name is just plain wrong. Presumably what the creator really had in mind was
Category:Massacres committed by the United States. But even if it were properly named, there are serious issues that would need to be addressed. First of all, as has been pointed out, it's largely redundant of the existing
Category:Massacres in the United States. Now I would agree that in principle there could well be a valid category of this sort to cover massacres committed outside of US territory, but that raises additional questions.
Regarding the current contents of the category,
Waco Siege is dubious at best, and would certainly be disputed by many editors as to being labeled a "massacre". (It's not even included in
Category:Massacres in the United States.) Virginia Tech has already been addressed, and in any event all of the school massacre articles are already in appropriate categories.
Of the remaining 3 articles, for events outside of the US, only the
My Lai Massacre clearly & unequivocally belongs in this category. While it's true that a large number of civilians were killed during the
First Battle of Fallujah, the word massacre is not used anywhere in the article. The appalling fact is that, historically, great numbers of civilians have been killed in many hundreds of battles that took place in urban areas, but these events are not generally designated as "massacres". I personally would support inclusion of the
Haditha killings, but I'm sure that would be hotly contested. (The article's name was already changed from "Haditha massacre".)
That brings us to the
Iran Air Flight 655 article, which I suspect is what prompted the creation of this category. As horrible as that event was, it isn't properly designated as a "massacre". As the explanatory info for
Category:Airliner shootdowns states, it was "attacked due to misidentification as enemy warplane". (I would argue that it was the result of a reckless policy/posture on the part of the US Navy, but that's another whole issue.)
So we are left with the question, "Is there a good rationale for a
Category:Massacres committed by the United States?" Again, I'm not against this in principle, but given that there is currently only one article about a massacre that took place outside of US territory, I think it's a dubious proposition. In my judgement, we should proceed carefully here. Since there are, at present, no other categories for "Massacres committed by Country Xyz", it would be implicitly very POV to have such a category only for the United States. We could certainly establish an entire category tree along these lines, but I think it would be best to have a full-blown discussion on that issue before proceeding.
Cgingold (
talk) 22:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
In light of the broad scope of this discussion I have posted notice of this CFD at the talk pages for WikiProject Human rights and WikiProject Military history.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Question (to be answered by "Delete" voters) - what substitute category would
My Lai massacre fall under, to illustrate that that massacre was perpetrated by United States individuals? I see none.
Badagnani (
talk) 00:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - I have just added another valid massacre committed by the United States to this category: the
No Gun Ri massacre during the Korean War. There are probably others that can be added, as well.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - Well, there were many massacres by U.S. forces within the U.S., as seen in the cats
Category:Massacres of Native Americans and
Category:Indian massacres. The key is that U.S. forces actually perpetrated the Indian massacres and the Vietnamese massacres; as it stands such massacres perpetrated by states are not categorized as such, but simply by the nation in which they occurred. Thus, someone looking for massacres perpetrated by U.S. forces would need to look through all 100+ "massacres in X country" categories, and read all the articles, in order to find them. That seems a problem. The Virginia Tech massacre was not perpetrated by United States forces, so it's not relevant here.
Badagnani (
talk) 02:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - first, "massacre" is ill-defined. Is it a certain number of individual deaths? Must the killers see the victims, or would air or missile attacks be massacres? Further, I see no NPOV reason to categorize atrocities by nations. If there is a need for understanding a policy for killing, that deserves the level of detail of an article, not merely a category stamp.
Howard C. Berkowitz (
talk) 02:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - This unfortunate posting shows the typical lack of prior reading typical of many "delete page regular" voters. If the term "massacre" were so poorly understood or defined, we wouldn't have an article for it, nor any categories with this term. This is not the issue or question at hand.
Badagnani (
talk) 02:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Strong delete: This opens categories such as "Massacres by Germans" as opposed to "Massacres by Nazi Germany". I have no issue with recording where a massacre occurred or under whose purported authority. When we get to nationalities or ethnicities of alleged participants, that is a completely different category which presents an invitation for endless recriminations and abuse. We have enough of that without creating new venues for nurturing bad faith among editors. —
PētersV (
talk) 02:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - If you have "no issue with recording where a massacre occurred or under whose purported authority," it's best to simply suggest a different name for the category than simply vote "Strong delete."
Badagnani (
talk) 02:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Response - Categories by nationality (and America being a case which is less strongly aligned with ethnicity, but ethnicity plays here as well) are open to abuse by those having an axe to grind. Perhaps "Bank robberies by Poles"? I find the whole notion of categories of "BAD THING X done by nationality/ethnicity Y" to be intellectually repugnant, not just editorially divisive. Finding a different name for a thing doesn't change the thing itself. And, upon further consideration, I (partially, stricken) withdraw my "I have no issue with" as, in the end, by country/authority is open to the same abuse. If the editorial community has come to a consensus that "Massacre X took place at location Y," that is all we should categorize by. —
PētersV (
talk) 13:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment: With respect to overlap, I would be concerned that this category might be used as a coatrack/fork which would (as commented here elsewhere) mostly duplicate the current
Category:Massacres in the United States. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Vecrumba (PētersV) (
talk •
contribs) 02:49, April 28, 2008
Strong delete: Ambiguous, redundant, and disruptive. As already demonstrated by the responses here, it is unclear whether it broadly applies to massacres committed by U.S. nationals, by any member of any state in the Americas, or narrowly to those by “Native Americans”. Such a category has all-but-total overlap with the existing “Massacres in …” categories, and this category naming approach also conflicts with
Category:Massacres by country, which is the parent category of all of the “Massacres in …” categories. (If normal naming practices are followed, its expansion would require a parent category with the dubious and awkward name of
Category:Massacres by country by country.) The minimal thought given to these complications strongly suggests that “Category:Massacres by Americans” is nothing more than an attempt to
game the system to make a
POV point. This surmise is reinforced by the fact that a simple search for further such categories formulated as “Massacres by [name your least favorite nationality or ethnic group]” turns up no results among twenty of the “usual suspects” (Germans/Nazis, Russians/Soviets, Turks, Iranians, Iraqis, Japanese, etc.) – something I have little doubt will be remedied due to my having
spilled the beans for which I apologize beforehand. (There is a
Category:Massacres by Native Americans and it was clearly designed to be complementary to
Category:Massacres of Native Americans – i.e., to avoid duplication.) Since, contra editor Badagnani, there is no widely accepted definition of what quantity of people or percentage of a group of persons killed constitutes a “massacre”, it’s about as useful – and neutral – a term as “terrorist” for categorization or other encyclopedic use. And never mind the traditional usage of the term to reflect an incident involving the near-total or total killing of a sizable group poorly able or unable to defend itself from such slaughter. Any incident any referable source chooses to describe as a “massacre” can be used to freely load up a category such as this with all the negative propaganda and opprobrium that anyone with an animosity toward that group cares to add. In a word, that is disruptive. Let's not get started down this path.
Askari Mark(Talk) 03:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Not taking a position, but I did point out above that were we to create such a category tree, the sub-cats would be called "Category:Massacres committed by country Xyz".
Cgingold (
talk) 05:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - Comment doesn't make sense at all; indeed, we have articles with "massacre" in the title and those articles refer, by editor consensus, to massacres. It's quite clear. Despite my very clear comment above, the editor just above neglects to point out how an editor looking for massacres committed by agents of the United States may find such, without looking through every subcategory of "massacres committed in X country," and reading every article, to determine which were committed by agents of the United States. Please actually address the comments and questions raise without needlessly introducing confusion where there is none (specifically by presenting hypotheticals about the supposed lack of knowledge on the part of our editors of what the word "massacre" means). We shouldn't be in the business of minimizing or maximizing actual events, simply properly documenting and categorizing all of them. I ask again, if a researcher is using Wikipedia to look for actual massacres, comprising WP articles that have "massacre" in the title of the article by WP consensus, perpetrated by agents of the United States, how would they find those without closely inspecting every such article? As mentioned above, there is no such difficulty in locating massacres of American Indians and massacres by American Indians, so our predecessors designed those categories well.
Badagnani (
talk) 04:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Note: I just moved the remarks by PētersV & Vecrumba from where they had been inserted smack in the middle of my lengthy comment to the proper chronological location. Please people, be more careful where you add your comments (and, oh yes -- sign them, too).
Cgingold (
talk) 05:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete, over categorization and ambiguous scope and membership, is this applicable to native Americans, South Americans or North Americans?
Martintg (
talk) 07:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - We have lots of categories here in which American just means individuals from the United States. American movies can not mean movies from Paraguay. In my opinion the title of this category is clear. The opinions of the delete-voters here can relate to choosing a better title for this category or ommiting or adding one article to it but it does not challenge the existence of the category itself at all.--
Mani1 (
talk) 08:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Could you explain why
you added the
Virginia Tech Massacre to this category? A massacre that appears to have been committed by a South Korean National? You created the category and from the items you added to it, it's not clear what items you think should be added to the category. I don't see any reason that Massacres need to be sub-categorized by nationality, continent, race, religion, ethnicity, or sex. Massacres in country is adequate for sub-categorization. --
Dual Freq (
talk) 11:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep or Rename to
Category:Massacres committed by the United States - "Delete" votes manifest flawed reasoning and none answers the question asked above, how our users may find articles about massacres perpetrated by Americans without actually reading through every article about a massacre (instead, they say they don't really know what "massacre" means, or simply state that they don't like the category without answering this question).
Badagnani (
talk) 08:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - as nominator, I really didn't think this would generate much discussion, as I thought it was a pretty simple case of overcategorization, and was actually looking for a potential "speedy". Clearly I was wrong. However, I would like to more strongly state my case, in agreement with several others, to state that this category has been rather arbitrarily (and I believe wrongfully) assigned to several articles which are not referred to as "massacres", that it is ambiguously named (thus if consensus is to keep, it should be renamed to
Category:Massacres committed by the United States), and that if properly named, it would be nearly impossible to find consensus on populating it. Moreover, per
WP:OCAT, this category seems to violate multiple principles, such as "Intersection by location", "Non-notable intersections by ethnicity" and "Narrow intersection".
HokieRNB (
talk) 15:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete or rename to per HokieRNB and exclude the article
Columbine High School massacre (and similar) from this category. This is a nonsense category in which should be categorized all massacres made by inhabitants of
Americas. However, I think that it would be good to have massacres categorized by forces which did that. --
millosh (
talk (meta:)) 18:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete this cat would need to be pruned to make it of any value and it would end up identical to the other one.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Ambiguous, over-categorised and redundant. To Howard C. Berkowitz: A massacre is defined under international human rights law as the the intentional killing of four or more individuals unable to defend themselves at one time and place/during one event. If I recall correctly, the time limit is 24 hours. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Civilaffairs (
talk •
contribs) 20:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - while "massacres in the United States" is acceptable, and "massacres committed by the US government" would be acceptable, the odd intersection of this catagory is not --
T-
rex 21:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
CommentCategory:Massacres committed by Japan and
Category:Massacres committed by the United States have been created since the opening of this CfD. How can a country commit a massacre? Were the massacres officially sanctioned by the government of the countries involved. People commit massacres, and this is another reason that there is not point to create this type of subdivision of the the massacres category. Additionally, I suspect these massacres were related to the
Empire of Japan vice Japan. the
Nanking Massacre article attributes the massacre to the military of Japan. We don't need to create these "committed by country XYZ" sub-categories. --
Dual Freq (
talk) 22:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete: Badly named and poorly conceived. Categorizing massacres where the only connection is the nationality of the perpetrator is a road we don't want to go down. (Where this eventually leads: Crimes in the United States committed by Arabs, Murders in Europe committed by Africans, etc.) And
Category:Massacres committed by the United States is an even worse title than this category. In US history, massacres were usually committed by people acting without governmental authority, and usually (always?) in defiance of US law. If such a category is needed, the correct name would be
Category:Massacres committed by United States military personnel. —
KevinMyers 13:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Agree with Mani above --
Rohan (
talk) 12:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:United Nations Intelligence Taskforce
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
Kbdank71 13:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Merge, This a is follow-up to the page rename of
United Nations Intelligence Taskforce to
UNIT. Although acoronyms are usually avoided in categories, an exception should be made in this case to match the article, and due to the dispute over whether the old or new name of the organisation should be used. See
Talk:UNIT#Requested move for more details.
Tim! (
talk) 07:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose UNIT is a horrible and ambiguous name. Categories should not be named ambiguously regardless of however ambiguously the parent article is named, otherwise it would require excessive patrolling to keep correct. Any
unit might be categorized under UNIT otherwise.
Category:UNIT (Whoniverse) or
Category:UNIT (Doctor Who) would work.
70.55.84.13 (
talk) 10:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose Neither the article nor the category should be named this way per
WP:ACRONYM--
Rtphokie (
talk) 12:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment — actually, for the article at least the use of "UNIT" as title is consistent with
WP:ACRONYM. It's like
NASA — the name "UNIT" is used much more frequently than "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce" or the renaming it got last week as "UNified Intelligence Taskforce". Unless there's something else which uses the acronym UNIT, this is appropriate. And
WP:ACRONYM doesn't say anything definitive about the use of acronyms in categories. —
Josiah Rowe (
talk •
contribs) 21:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose Much too ambiguous, both in the category and the article.
Mastrchf (t/c) 14:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Support - believe it or not, the abbreviation is the less contentious one. Sceptre(
talk) 21:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Support per Sceptre. Neither "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce" nor "Unified Intelligence Taskforce" are uncontroversial names. We don't want to put UNIT in a
battlefield :-)
Percy Snoodle (
talk) 12:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support for forty years UNIT stood for United Nations Intelligence Taskforce. As of this year it's Unified Intelligence Taskforce. The only compromise option is to give primacy to the UNIT name which is also more commonly used than either.
Type 40 (
talk) 14:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support -- I would support
Category:UNIT (Doctor Who) as suggested above, but given the current option, I'd be willing to support just
Category:UNIT. That's the name it's best known by anyway, like NASA and laser.
DonQuixote (
talk) 14:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support per the recent decision to retitle the main article.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 23:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:People from Mission
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This category is propose for renaming, I type the search "Mission", a lot of specific names is named "Mission", then I type the search "Mission, British Columbia" This is the only search to match with the renamed article. This category must be renamed.
Steam5 (
talk) 03:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Also makes the category more specific.
Martarius (
talk) 19:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
comment there are hundreds/thousands of similar categories for/about Canadian cities, towns, etc. Can't they all be done quickly instead of this tiresome one at a time thing?
Hmains (
talk) 02:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Barring some sort of legal or official classification as a "Major City", which I am not aware of, this means of classification can only be done in a POV way or by using arbitrary inclusionary criteria, which if there are any are not defined. Notified creator with {{
subst:cfd-notify}}Good Ol’factory(talk) 23:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete I doubt if this can be made NPOV (even
Exeter and
Plymouth are there - these are surely middling cities at most).
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 23:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete as undefined and probable NPOV.--
Lenticel(
talk) 00:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete: entirely arbitrary classification, and impossible to keep NPOV. --
RFBailey (
talk) 03:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Grounds for inclusion are far too vague. --
Sakurambo桜ん坊 07:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete no sound logical basis given for inclusion in this group, can't be kept NPOV. On the same basis, I think another category -
Category:Landmarks in Wales should be deleted too.
Avebury (
talk) 10:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete without an 'official' list of major cities in the UK, a few random journalistic opinions (often in a completely different context) do not constitute sufficiently strong or objective sources.
Pondle (
talk) 17:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per nom --
T-
rex 21:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Japanese expatriate footballers
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge both.
Kbdank71 15:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: convention (as it stands) does not have it to categorize people by occupation by continent; suggested merger would fit the largely established rubric
Category:Expatriate footballers by nationalityMayumashu (
talk) 22:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. Unusual and unnecessary intersections.
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 00:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Merge: Good suggestion. --
Sakurambo桜ん坊 08:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Arab Air Carriers Organization
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Rename. Clarify what the contents of the category are.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Bands with female lead singers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Furthermore, this can be especially a case of dispute in groups where there is no set lead singer, such as
Little Big Town -- that group is composed of two women and two men, all of whom rotate lead vocals (sometimes within the same song). And why does it have to be "half" the contributions? Do
Lady Antebellum, for example, split the lead vocals 50/50 between their two lead vocalists (one male, one female)? Et cetera.
Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (
Broken clamshells•
Otter chirps) 19:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - Notable, well-sourced, and valuable for our users interested in music-related subjects. Regarding bands with more than one lead singer, please actually read the text at the category itself, which states: "These are bands who have or have had a female member who contributes at least half of the vocals." There are many fewer bands with female lead singers, thus the need for this category. We have
Category:African-American singers but no
Category:European-American singers for this reason.
Badagnani (
talk) 19:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete. I doubt this is half the notable bands, but it sure is a whole lot of them nonetheless.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 19:35, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete as overcategorization based on sex.
Otto4711 (
talk) 21:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Overcategorization.
Lugnuts (
talk) 07:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - per precident with Category:Mixed-gender musical groups --
T-
rex 21:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:G-Unit Records articles with comments
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - whether an article has comments on its talk page is a trivial basis for categorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - trivial is an over-statement in this case.
-- roundhouse0 (
talk) 15:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Joint venture G-Unit Records artists
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:upmerge.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - categorizing artists by the method through which they are signed to a particular record label is overcategorization.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:15, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:G'$ Up
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - unnecessary eponymous overcategorization for a record label's sub-label.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:13, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Crime Mob
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:M.O.P.
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The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Delete - completely unnecessary eponymous overcategorization. Part of a walled garden for G-Unit that was previously dismantled but is now back under construction.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Crime by city in the US
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
By prior precedent, most city articles and categories for US cities include the ", state" after the name of the city.
Rename all per nom. I've made a couple of very similar mass-nominations, so I definitely support this one. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 17:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Sports teams by city in the US
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename all.
Kbdank71 13:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
By prior precedent, most city articles and categories for US cities include the ", state" after the name of the city. All of these categories' parents are of that form (links provided, because I'm such a nice guy). Only the categories relating to cities have been nominated. Categories such as
Category:Sports in the Dallas-Fort Worth area or
Category:Sports in the Quad Cities which sometimes cloud the issue have been left off my list.
Neier (
talk) 13:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose unless the categorization guidelines clearly state that the target categories are not restricted to the city proper. Otherwise a large number of articles will need to be edited to manually remove them.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 19:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I think it's safe to say that the Pistons belong in the Detroit category despite playing in Auburn Hills. They're definitely part of the city.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 01:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
As much a part of the city as the Colts were in Baltimore, the football Cardinals were in St. Louis, and the Raiders were in LA no doubt. It's a business, businesses move to greener pastures, and moving to the 'burbs is moving out of the city - and out of its categories... Just like we don't put the mayors of Auburn Hills in
Category:Mayors of Detroit.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Mayors in Auburn Hills have no effect on Detroit. The Pistons do. They belong in a category about Detroit. And besides, how is the category as currently named not about Detroit? It isn't "Sports within 30 miles of Detroit, give or take." Adding the state affects this perception in no way at all.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 23:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all - per nom by city with state.
Steam5 (
talk) 20:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all per nom. As for Vegaswikian's comment, I think it's safe to say that most editors put all teams or venues in the metropolitan area within each city's category. That's what I've been doing all along. —
Dale Arnett (
talk) 03:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename all per nom. I've made a couple of very similar mass-nominations, so I definitely support this one. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 17:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment if these are renamed, they need to be manually pruned per Vegaswikian. Accuracy, verifiability over subjective POV inclusion by how far from town something gets and still is in the category: Golden State Warriors in San Francisco, any one?
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
That presumes that the presence or absence of the state in the category name makes any difference to the scope of the category. I didn't see that it made any difference the first time Vegaswikian raised the complaint, and I still do not. And if it makes no difference to the scope of the category, then there is no need to for any effort to clean up the scope of the categories as part of the rename effort. That's not to say that any such clean-up should or should not happen, but I just don't see such a scope cleanup as having anything to do with this rename, as IMHO the rename has nothing to do with the scope of the categories. -
TexasAndroid (
talk) 20:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
I've never understood how Detroit, Michigan is somehow less accurate or more restrictive than Detroit either. If The Golden State Warriors are located in San Francisco, California is incorrect, then what makes The Golden State Warriors are located in San Francisco acceptable?
Neier (
talk) 00:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
That's why we need to clarify how the category name affects the contents. There have been comments about a rename to include the state saying to remove everything not in the city limits. Without the state, there was consensus to include the surrounding areas. I thing I once suggested that these be renamed to metropolitan area to eliminate any confusion but that did not gain support. The comments above about pruning clearly indicate that after a rename like this, there is by clearly confusion as to what the category contains. Personally a rename to metropolitan area would be the least confusing and is probably the best approach. That allows someone to add city specific tags if they desire. If you complete a rename like this, and I wanted to list the articles about sports that are actually in the city of Las Vegas what category name would I use?
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
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Category:Massacres by Americans
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete.
Kbdank71 13:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. It is a different category. It includes massacres done by the Americans around the world. Massacres inside the US are just a part of it.--
Mani1 (
talk) 11:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Agree with Mani1 above; things done by Americans are different from things done in America. Massacres by Americans are notable enough to necessitate a cat. • Freechild'sup? 13:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep - Current category reflects articles on an international scale, and I'd bet that there are articles in the Massacres in the United States article that aren't of Massacres by Americans.
Mastrchf (t/c) 14:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment: On the whole I'm afraid this is a poorly conceived category. I have very mixed feelings about it, but I'm leaning towards delete. To begin with, as ably laid out by Dual Freq, the name is just plain wrong. Presumably what the creator really had in mind was
Category:Massacres committed by the United States. But even if it were properly named, there are serious issues that would need to be addressed. First of all, as has been pointed out, it's largely redundant of the existing
Category:Massacres in the United States. Now I would agree that in principle there could well be a valid category of this sort to cover massacres committed outside of US territory, but that raises additional questions.
Regarding the current contents of the category,
Waco Siege is dubious at best, and would certainly be disputed by many editors as to being labeled a "massacre". (It's not even included in
Category:Massacres in the United States.) Virginia Tech has already been addressed, and in any event all of the school massacre articles are already in appropriate categories.
Of the remaining 3 articles, for events outside of the US, only the
My Lai Massacre clearly & unequivocally belongs in this category. While it's true that a large number of civilians were killed during the
First Battle of Fallujah, the word massacre is not used anywhere in the article. The appalling fact is that, historically, great numbers of civilians have been killed in many hundreds of battles that took place in urban areas, but these events are not generally designated as "massacres". I personally would support inclusion of the
Haditha killings, but I'm sure that would be hotly contested. (The article's name was already changed from "Haditha massacre".)
That brings us to the
Iran Air Flight 655 article, which I suspect is what prompted the creation of this category. As horrible as that event was, it isn't properly designated as a "massacre". As the explanatory info for
Category:Airliner shootdowns states, it was "attacked due to misidentification as enemy warplane". (I would argue that it was the result of a reckless policy/posture on the part of the US Navy, but that's another whole issue.)
So we are left with the question, "Is there a good rationale for a
Category:Massacres committed by the United States?" Again, I'm not against this in principle, but given that there is currently only one article about a massacre that took place outside of US territory, I think it's a dubious proposition. In my judgement, we should proceed carefully here. Since there are, at present, no other categories for "Massacres committed by Country Xyz", it would be implicitly very POV to have such a category only for the United States. We could certainly establish an entire category tree along these lines, but I think it would be best to have a full-blown discussion on that issue before proceeding.
Cgingold (
talk) 22:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
In light of the broad scope of this discussion I have posted notice of this CFD at the talk pages for WikiProject Human rights and WikiProject Military history.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Question (to be answered by "Delete" voters) - what substitute category would
My Lai massacre fall under, to illustrate that that massacre was perpetrated by United States individuals? I see none.
Badagnani (
talk) 00:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - I have just added another valid massacre committed by the United States to this category: the
No Gun Ri massacre during the Korean War. There are probably others that can be added, as well.
Cgingold (
talk) 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - Well, there were many massacres by U.S. forces within the U.S., as seen in the cats
Category:Massacres of Native Americans and
Category:Indian massacres. The key is that U.S. forces actually perpetrated the Indian massacres and the Vietnamese massacres; as it stands such massacres perpetrated by states are not categorized as such, but simply by the nation in which they occurred. Thus, someone looking for massacres perpetrated by U.S. forces would need to look through all 100+ "massacres in X country" categories, and read all the articles, in order to find them. That seems a problem. The Virginia Tech massacre was not perpetrated by United States forces, so it's not relevant here.
Badagnani (
talk) 02:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - first, "massacre" is ill-defined. Is it a certain number of individual deaths? Must the killers see the victims, or would air or missile attacks be massacres? Further, I see no NPOV reason to categorize atrocities by nations. If there is a need for understanding a policy for killing, that deserves the level of detail of an article, not merely a category stamp.
Howard C. Berkowitz (
talk) 02:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - This unfortunate posting shows the typical lack of prior reading typical of many "delete page regular" voters. If the term "massacre" were so poorly understood or defined, we wouldn't have an article for it, nor any categories with this term. This is not the issue or question at hand.
Badagnani (
talk) 02:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Strong delete: This opens categories such as "Massacres by Germans" as opposed to "Massacres by Nazi Germany". I have no issue with recording where a massacre occurred or under whose purported authority. When we get to nationalities or ethnicities of alleged participants, that is a completely different category which presents an invitation for endless recriminations and abuse. We have enough of that without creating new venues for nurturing bad faith among editors. —
PētersV (
talk) 02:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - If you have "no issue with recording where a massacre occurred or under whose purported authority," it's best to simply suggest a different name for the category than simply vote "Strong delete."
Badagnani (
talk) 02:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Response - Categories by nationality (and America being a case which is less strongly aligned with ethnicity, but ethnicity plays here as well) are open to abuse by those having an axe to grind. Perhaps "Bank robberies by Poles"? I find the whole notion of categories of "BAD THING X done by nationality/ethnicity Y" to be intellectually repugnant, not just editorially divisive. Finding a different name for a thing doesn't change the thing itself. And, upon further consideration, I (partially, stricken) withdraw my "I have no issue with" as, in the end, by country/authority is open to the same abuse. If the editorial community has come to a consensus that "Massacre X took place at location Y," that is all we should categorize by. —
PētersV (
talk) 13:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment: With respect to overlap, I would be concerned that this category might be used as a coatrack/fork which would (as commented here elsewhere) mostly duplicate the current
Category:Massacres in the United States. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Vecrumba (PētersV) (
talk •
contribs) 02:49, April 28, 2008
Strong delete: Ambiguous, redundant, and disruptive. As already demonstrated by the responses here, it is unclear whether it broadly applies to massacres committed by U.S. nationals, by any member of any state in the Americas, or narrowly to those by “Native Americans”. Such a category has all-but-total overlap with the existing “Massacres in …” categories, and this category naming approach also conflicts with
Category:Massacres by country, which is the parent category of all of the “Massacres in …” categories. (If normal naming practices are followed, its expansion would require a parent category with the dubious and awkward name of
Category:Massacres by country by country.) The minimal thought given to these complications strongly suggests that “Category:Massacres by Americans” is nothing more than an attempt to
game the system to make a
POV point. This surmise is reinforced by the fact that a simple search for further such categories formulated as “Massacres by [name your least favorite nationality or ethnic group]” turns up no results among twenty of the “usual suspects” (Germans/Nazis, Russians/Soviets, Turks, Iranians, Iraqis, Japanese, etc.) – something I have little doubt will be remedied due to my having
spilled the beans for which I apologize beforehand. (There is a
Category:Massacres by Native Americans and it was clearly designed to be complementary to
Category:Massacres of Native Americans – i.e., to avoid duplication.) Since, contra editor Badagnani, there is no widely accepted definition of what quantity of people or percentage of a group of persons killed constitutes a “massacre”, it’s about as useful – and neutral – a term as “terrorist” for categorization or other encyclopedic use. And never mind the traditional usage of the term to reflect an incident involving the near-total or total killing of a sizable group poorly able or unable to defend itself from such slaughter. Any incident any referable source chooses to describe as a “massacre” can be used to freely load up a category such as this with all the negative propaganda and opprobrium that anyone with an animosity toward that group cares to add. In a word, that is disruptive. Let's not get started down this path.
Askari Mark(Talk) 03:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Not taking a position, but I did point out above that were we to create such a category tree, the sub-cats would be called "Category:Massacres committed by country Xyz".
Cgingold (
talk) 05:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - Comment doesn't make sense at all; indeed, we have articles with "massacre" in the title and those articles refer, by editor consensus, to massacres. It's quite clear. Despite my very clear comment above, the editor just above neglects to point out how an editor looking for massacres committed by agents of the United States may find such, without looking through every subcategory of "massacres committed in X country," and reading every article, to determine which were committed by agents of the United States. Please actually address the comments and questions raise without needlessly introducing confusion where there is none (specifically by presenting hypotheticals about the supposed lack of knowledge on the part of our editors of what the word "massacre" means). We shouldn't be in the business of minimizing or maximizing actual events, simply properly documenting and categorizing all of them. I ask again, if a researcher is using Wikipedia to look for actual massacres, comprising WP articles that have "massacre" in the title of the article by WP consensus, perpetrated by agents of the United States, how would they find those without closely inspecting every such article? As mentioned above, there is no such difficulty in locating massacres of American Indians and massacres by American Indians, so our predecessors designed those categories well.
Badagnani (
talk) 04:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Note: I just moved the remarks by PētersV & Vecrumba from where they had been inserted smack in the middle of my lengthy comment to the proper chronological location. Please people, be more careful where you add your comments (and, oh yes -- sign them, too).
Cgingold (
talk) 05:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete, over categorization and ambiguous scope and membership, is this applicable to native Americans, South Americans or North Americans?
Martintg (
talk) 07:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment - We have lots of categories here in which American just means individuals from the United States. American movies can not mean movies from Paraguay. In my opinion the title of this category is clear. The opinions of the delete-voters here can relate to choosing a better title for this category or ommiting or adding one article to it but it does not challenge the existence of the category itself at all.--
Mani1 (
talk) 08:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Could you explain why
you added the
Virginia Tech Massacre to this category? A massacre that appears to have been committed by a South Korean National? You created the category and from the items you added to it, it's not clear what items you think should be added to the category. I don't see any reason that Massacres need to be sub-categorized by nationality, continent, race, religion, ethnicity, or sex. Massacres in country is adequate for sub-categorization. --
Dual Freq (
talk) 11:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep or Rename to
Category:Massacres committed by the United States - "Delete" votes manifest flawed reasoning and none answers the question asked above, how our users may find articles about massacres perpetrated by Americans without actually reading through every article about a massacre (instead, they say they don't really know what "massacre" means, or simply state that they don't like the category without answering this question).
Badagnani (
talk) 08:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - as nominator, I really didn't think this would generate much discussion, as I thought it was a pretty simple case of overcategorization, and was actually looking for a potential "speedy". Clearly I was wrong. However, I would like to more strongly state my case, in agreement with several others, to state that this category has been rather arbitrarily (and I believe wrongfully) assigned to several articles which are not referred to as "massacres", that it is ambiguously named (thus if consensus is to keep, it should be renamed to
Category:Massacres committed by the United States), and that if properly named, it would be nearly impossible to find consensus on populating it. Moreover, per
WP:OCAT, this category seems to violate multiple principles, such as "Intersection by location", "Non-notable intersections by ethnicity" and "Narrow intersection".
HokieRNB (
talk) 15:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete or rename to per HokieRNB and exclude the article
Columbine High School massacre (and similar) from this category. This is a nonsense category in which should be categorized all massacres made by inhabitants of
Americas. However, I think that it would be good to have massacres categorized by forces which did that. --
millosh (
talk (meta:)) 18:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete this cat would need to be pruned to make it of any value and it would end up identical to the other one.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete Ambiguous, over-categorised and redundant. To Howard C. Berkowitz: A massacre is defined under international human rights law as the the intentional killing of four or more individuals unable to defend themselves at one time and place/during one event. If I recall correctly, the time limit is 24 hours. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Civilaffairs (
talk •
contribs) 20:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete - while "massacres in the United States" is acceptable, and "massacres committed by the US government" would be acceptable, the odd intersection of this catagory is not --
T-
rex 21:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
CommentCategory:Massacres committed by Japan and
Category:Massacres committed by the United States have been created since the opening of this CfD. How can a country commit a massacre? Were the massacres officially sanctioned by the government of the countries involved. People commit massacres, and this is another reason that there is not point to create this type of subdivision of the the massacres category. Additionally, I suspect these massacres were related to the
Empire of Japan vice Japan. the
Nanking Massacre article attributes the massacre to the military of Japan. We don't need to create these "committed by country XYZ" sub-categories. --
Dual Freq (
talk) 22:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Delete: Badly named and poorly conceived. Categorizing massacres where the only connection is the nationality of the perpetrator is a road we don't want to go down. (Where this eventually leads: Crimes in the United States committed by Arabs, Murders in Europe committed by Africans, etc.) And
Category:Massacres committed by the United States is an even worse title than this category. In US history, massacres were usually committed by people acting without governmental authority, and usually (always?) in defiance of US law. If such a category is needed, the correct name would be
Category:Massacres committed by United States military personnel. —
KevinMyers 13:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Keep. Agree with Mani above --
Rohan (
talk) 12:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:United Nations Intelligence Taskforce
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
Kbdank71 13:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:Merge, This a is follow-up to the page rename of
United Nations Intelligence Taskforce to
UNIT. Although acoronyms are usually avoided in categories, an exception should be made in this case to match the article, and due to the dispute over whether the old or new name of the organisation should be used. See
Talk:UNIT#Requested move for more details.
Tim! (
talk) 07:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose UNIT is a horrible and ambiguous name. Categories should not be named ambiguously regardless of however ambiguously the parent article is named, otherwise it would require excessive patrolling to keep correct. Any
unit might be categorized under UNIT otherwise.
Category:UNIT (Whoniverse) or
Category:UNIT (Doctor Who) would work.
70.55.84.13 (
talk) 10:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose Neither the article nor the category should be named this way per
WP:ACRONYM--
Rtphokie (
talk) 12:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Comment — actually, for the article at least the use of "UNIT" as title is consistent with
WP:ACRONYM. It's like
NASA — the name "UNIT" is used much more frequently than "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce" or the renaming it got last week as "UNified Intelligence Taskforce". Unless there's something else which uses the acronym UNIT, this is appropriate. And
WP:ACRONYM doesn't say anything definitive about the use of acronyms in categories. —
Josiah Rowe (
talk •
contribs) 21:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Oppose Much too ambiguous, both in the category and the article.
Mastrchf (t/c) 14:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Support - believe it or not, the abbreviation is the less contentious one. Sceptre(
talk) 21:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Support per Sceptre. Neither "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce" nor "Unified Intelligence Taskforce" are uncontroversial names. We don't want to put UNIT in a
battlefield :-)
Percy Snoodle (
talk) 12:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support for forty years UNIT stood for United Nations Intelligence Taskforce. As of this year it's Unified Intelligence Taskforce. The only compromise option is to give primacy to the UNIT name which is also more commonly used than either.
Type 40 (
talk) 14:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support -- I would support
Category:UNIT (Doctor Who) as suggested above, but given the current option, I'd be willing to support just
Category:UNIT. That's the name it's best known by anyway, like NASA and laser.
DonQuixote (
talk) 14:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Support per the recent decision to retitle the main article.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 23:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:People from Mission
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename.
Kbdank71 13:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: This category is propose for renaming, I type the search "Mission", a lot of specific names is named "Mission", then I type the search "Mission, British Columbia" This is the only search to match with the renamed article. This category must be renamed.
Steam5 (
talk) 03:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. Also makes the category more specific.
Martarius (
talk) 19:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
comment there are hundreds/thousands of similar categories for/about Canadian cities, towns, etc. Can't they all be done quickly instead of this tiresome one at a time thing?
Hmains (
talk) 02:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.