November 25
Category:Twelve labours of Herakles
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The result of the debate was rename per nom. "Let's at least match the name of the lead article" is the main argument here.
Bencherlite
Talk 01:05, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
Category:Twelve labours of Herakles to
Category:Labours of Hercules
- Nominator's rationale: Rename - to match the lead article
Labours of Hercules. "Herakles" is a redirect to
Heracles.
Otto4711 (
talk) 23:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support. In accordance with what one would normally expect.
Kittybrewster
☎ 23:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Rename per nom.
I think
Hercules was Herakles once, In fact both
Hercules and
Heracles exist, about the same guy in Roman and Greek myth, but the labours should be Hercules regardless in my view.
Johnbod (
talk) 00:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Rename per nom to match main article and per the "best known as" convention of article category naming. Note
46,000 non-WP ghits for "Labours of Hercules" but only
2,680 non-WP ghits for "Labours of Herakles". --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 09:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Delete - The members aren't "labours", they're people and creatures which may have been associated with one or more of the labours. (Compare to
Category:Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove.) The category is also miscategorised under
Category:Cultural lists. If kept, I oppose renaming at this time. I think that this needs to be standardised with a broader discussion. Though I think the main debate is over Hercules vs. Heracles (the two article names), I note that there seem to be a scattering of "names". The main article was
The Twelve Labours (which sidesteps the question), but was renamed per a move request at
Talk:Labours_of_Hercules#Requested_move. There's also a nav template called
Template:Twelve tasks of Hercules, but has a navbar stating: The Twelve Labours of Herakles. What fun. : ) -
jc37 09:57, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- partial support. Rename to Hercules or Heracles per
WP:GREEK, but keep the number.
Septentrionalis
PMAnderson 21:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support it's the common name in English.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 19:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment - Actually, per
WP:GREEK, it should probably be
Heracles. The trouble is that this is actually the example for ambiguity. If the two have separate articles (as they are apparently at least slightly different characters), does anyone know if perhaps we'll get lucky and one of the versions didn't perform the labours? -
jc37 08:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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The result of the debate was No consensus to Merge - Though no prejudice against disussing cleanup options (such as to "culture", noted below) and then renominating. -
jc37 08:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Suggest merging
Category:Chinese thought to
Category:Chinese philosophy
- Nominator's rationale: Merge or just reorganize? At the moment each category is given as a subcat of the other. The text describing the scope of
Category:Chinese thought (which was created first) seems to restrict it to philosophy. On the other hand, there's a case for keeping C. thought & making C. philosophy a subcategory. For comparison's sake, there's a
Category:Indian philosophy but no
Category:Indian thought)
Dsp13 (
talk) 21:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose the nominated merge, as the category contains sub-cats on Chinese science, religion & literature, so "C philosophy" is too narrow. But there is a problem - I understand the intention of the category, but I'm not sure this is actually a helpful sub-grouping under
Category:Chinese culture. I don't think we have other "thought" categories, & I'm leaning to a merge to the culture category.
Johnbod (
talk) 22:02, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose There are clearly articles in here, such as Chinese literature, Chinese martial arts, that fit into this catogory appropriately, but not into philosophy. But perhaps chinese culture would be better.
DGG (
talk) 17:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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The result of the debate was Delete - already split/empty. -
jc37 08:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
-
Category:Articles related to Alice Nine (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Delete, divide between
Category:Alice Nine albums and
Category:Alice Nine songs. --
Prove It
(talk) 17:54, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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The result of the debate was No consensus -
jc37 08:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
-
Category:Deaths from Parkinson's disease (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Propose renaming
Category:Deaths from Parkinson's disease to
Category:Deaths with Parkinson's disease
- Nominator's rationale: Nobody dies from it; some people die from complications arising from it. In any event, those who "died from" need to be addde to "People with" ... -
Kittybrewster
☎ 17:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
-
- Oppose/Keep. Nobody "dies from" a lot of things that we claim they do. Really, it all just depends on how far up or down the chain of causation you go. There are very specific biomedical causes of death, then there are the things that caused the actual biomedical cause, then there are the things that caused that, and so on, and so on. The key in creating a reasonable category is not to go too far up or down the chain of causation. Example: people who die from a heart attack brought on by overexertion. We don't have a category for "Deaths from overexertion" (very far up the chain), nor do we have a category for "Deaths from lack of oxygen to heart tissue" (very far down the chain), but we do have
Category:Deaths by myocardial infarction, which seems like a reasonable point along the chain. To insist on categories like this exactly reflecting biomedical processes far down the chain of causation may seem a bit pedantic to the average reader and editor.
Snocrates 20:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment. In reply to Snocrates. It also depends on how tight the chain of causation is. If your heart stops and stays stopped, you will die, pronto. If cancer takes over your body, you will die as some crucial organ ceases to function. But with Parkinson's the chain of causation seem rather loose, so I'm leaning towards a "delete". --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs)
- That is true that the "tightness" would be a factor to consider also.
Snocrates 02:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment Using "I don't like it" is not a valid reason for deletion.
Lugnuts (
talk) 12:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment. In the
Early modern period, these things were much simpler: non-violent and non-accidental deaths were usually described as being from either apoplexy (a sudden death) or gout (a slow decline). Crushing by elephant was not particularly widespread at the time, and decapitation could be avoided a by wise choice of
husband.
But in general, I agree that most of these deaths-from-X categories should go. Even in contemporary obituaries, cause of death is usually described in a manner little changed from the early modern period, commonly using phrases such as "died suddenly", "died after a short illness" or "died after a long illness". When the precise cause of death is so often omitted in obituaries of a few hundred words, it's hard to justify it as a defining attribute. --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 09:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Delete, this seems a nonsensical and/or contentious category: proof is likely to be hard to find, if available at all.
Vizjim (
talk) 10:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose the nomination. Keep the original Category. deaths "with" just reads all wrong in my opinion.
Sting_au
Talk 12:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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The result of the debate was No consensus for rename -
jc37 08:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
Category:Vocal duets to
Category:Vocal duets and collaborations
- Nominator's rationale: I am proposing that this category be re-named so that it can be all-inclusive for all songs featuring multiple artists together, and not just duets (e.g. Tracy Lawrence, Tim McGraw, and Kenny Chesney on "
Find Out Who Your Friends Are").
Ten Pound Hammer • (
Broken clamshells•
Otter chirps) 17:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose. A
duet is a particular form of collaboration, with its own rhythms and traditions, particularly wrt duets between a man and a woman. --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 19:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose per, um, whoever's comment is above mine (no name in sig?) and in the absense of a discussion of the wider
Category:Duets structure.
Otto4711 (
talk) 19:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose per both, although the category is dubious, most entries seem, like
It's All Coming Back to Me Now to be "songs that have been recorded as duets" (or "with dual lead vocals") which is not the same thing at all.
Johnbod (
talk) 00:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Oppose per BrownHairedGirl's rationale; Otto4711 and Johnbod also both have valid points.
InnocuousPseudonym (
talk) 03:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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The result of the debate was merge
Category:Filipino Catholics to
Category:Filipino Roman Catholics.
Angus McLellan
(Talk) 21:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
-
Category:Filipino Catholics (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Merge into
Category:Filipino Roman Catholics, convention of
Category:Roman Catholics by nationality. --
Prove It
(talk) 16:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Eastern Othodox certainly do not identify as Catholic! I expect you are thinking of
Eastern Catholics. These people are categorised as Roman Catholics, so barring the usual mistakes, presumably that is what they are.
Johnbod (
talk) 05:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- FWIW,
Catholic lists quite a few groups that identify with the term that are most decidedly not Roman Catholic—including Eastern Orthodox.
Maralia (
talk) 15:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- That is a theological technicality, to do with the
Four Marks of the Church. The Othodox, unlike some Anglicans, certainly do not use "Catholic" in normal language as a self-descriptor, and it is confusing people to suggest they do.
Johnbod (
talk) 15:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- I merely saw a slew of articles categorized as 'x' proposed for recat as 'x + qualifier' and thought "hm, is that wise without further evaluation?". I don't consider myself an expert on the distinction between Catholic and Roman Catholic, so I visited
Catholic and saw many other presumably valid applications of the term. The one I mentioned above was given as an example to demonstrate this. I don't wish to argue technicalities of the appellations used by various churches; I merely point out that the article
Catholic outlines much broader use of the term, so it may be fallacious to assume that a Catholic is a Roman Catholic. I have no eggs in this basket, and I'm certainly not trying to 'confuse people'.
Maralia (
talk) 16:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- This should not be a worry in the Philippines; it might be in
Ukraine. The Papal coat-of-arms on the category page suggests so.
Johnbod (
talk) 16:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Merge per nom.
Johnbod (
talk) 16:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Delete both as unnecessary. These "Roman Catholic" or "Catholic" categories aren't very meaningful religious categories, what do these people really have in common? They consider themselves (Roman) Catholic? They were baptized and didn't file the paper work to quit the church? Is this really distinguishing in countries like the Philippines that are overwhelmingly Roman Catholic? no.
Carlossuarez46 (
talk) 20:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Merge - They are necessary, considering that 10% of the Phillipenes is Muslim and because, as long as its done under
WP:BLP noting a person's religion is a-ok.
Baka
man 02:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Merge per nom. --
Soman (
talk) 11:01, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Merge per nom, for consistency. I see that
category:Fijian Catholics and
category:Korean Catholics need to follow suit; can they be nominated as speedy renames, referring to this discussion? -
Fayenatic
(talk) 20:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Tri-City Valleycats alumni
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was rename (already done).--
Mike Selinker 15:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
Category:Tri-City Valleycats alumni to
Category:Tri-City ValleyCats alumni
- Nominator's rationale: Rename: Mispelled team name.
JB
82
c 15:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Delete as empty and express confusion as to why baseball players are being categorized as "alumni" rather than as "players."
Otto4711 (
talk) 19:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Delete per Otto. --
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs) 23:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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Category:Charmed characters
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The result of the debate was Rename
Category:Charmed characters to
Category:Charmed (TV series) characters. -
jc37 08:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
Category:Charmed characters to
Category:Charmed (TV series) characters
- Nominator's rationale: Rename - name is ambiguous. Clarfying that it refers to characters from the TV show and not fictional characters who have themselves been charmed.
Otto4711 (
talk) 14:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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Disney characters by medium
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was No consensus - It looks like this nom has expanded to several subcategories. (Which themselves aren't tagged for discussion.) Please feel free to relist/renominate based on the discussion below. -
jc37 08:46, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
- Nominator's rationale: These categories were created some time ago to help keep the parent category,
Category:Disney characters free of clutter. Unfortunately this does not seem to have worked, and the categories remain largely unused. I suggest a rename in order to expand the scope of the categories, in order to properly partition the parent cat. In particular, I suggest renaming to keep in line with the more popular
Category:Disney comics characters, although a simple omission of the word "originating" in each case would also be acceptable. --
Supermorff (
talk) 13:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Looking at the entire group... I'm tempted to say upmerge television, film, and comics up and distribute to the various "family", franchise, and project subs. As they stand there is a lot of miss steps:
- Donald Duck in the base, comics, and Donald Duck universe/family cats. Similar for for other keynote characters.
- Various characters not getting removed from the parent when they exist in one of the subs.
- Licensed characters getting tagged in.
- Beyond that, the "originating in" does seem to be there for a purpose. The cats seem to be limited to characters that first appeared in either film or television, not every character to appear that way. -
J Greb (
talk) 20:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- But the cats aren't limited to those characters first appearing in film and television (see
Baloo and
King Louie as a subcat of
Category:TaleSpin characters for example, or have a look at
Category:Disney's Aladdin characters in which most of the articles are about characters from the TV series but not the films). I admit that I don't know if my suggestion is the best solution, but clearly the system isn't working properly at present. --
Supermorff (
talk) 12:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- True... and that brings up a whole 'nother can-o-worms with the Disney cats: Disney has had a track record of characters "jumping" shows/films.
It may be that the entire schema needs to be re-worked from the ground up. Maybe the "Characters from show/film/franchise" being moved to direct subs of
Category:Disney characters and eliminating a character from the parent if it resides in one of more of the subs. Eliminate the intermediary steps entirely. -
J Greb (
talk) 23:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Episode articles not asserting notability
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was delete. –
Black Falcon (
Talk) 23:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
-
Category:Episode articles not asserting notability (
|
talk |
history |
links |
watch |
logs)
- Nominator's rationale: This category was created to serve a now failed proposal on how to deal with episode articles. The template that was used to populate this article no longer exists. In addition, the category is not really useful for entire articles on an entire season (how episode articles should be dealt with), because they are only listed by the name of the episode, with no reference to the show from which it is from.
I
(talk) 04:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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Category:Domain-specific languages
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was merge.--
Mike Selinker 06:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Suggest merging
Category:Domain-specific languages to
Category:Domain-specific programming languages
- Nominator's rationale: The distinction between the two categories is unclear at best. The defining statement at
Category:Domain-specific languages even mentions specifically that it is for "programming". –
Henning Makholm 03:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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Category:Anti-Islam
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deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was rename. However, this is not precedential toward
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment, which is about actions taken against those of Muslim faith. As Itaqallah notes below, there's a reasonable difference between criticism and prejudice.--
Mike Selinker 06:21, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Propose renaming
Category:Anti-Islam to
Category:Criticism of Islam
- Nominator's rationale: Labeleling something or someone as "anti-Islam" is completely POV; calling
living individuals such may in fact be libelous. The proposed new name is in line with the category's parent cat, Criticism of religion, and even fits the subcategories better (such as "Critics of Islam" etc.)
VanTucky
talk 02:18, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- I would think that that particular cat would be ripe for merging with Criticism of Islam, if the renmae goes through.
VanTucky
talk 02:33, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- a rename of Category:Anti-Islam sentiment may not be appropriate. not all negative expressions against Islam can be termed "criticism" (e.g.
Jerry Klein’s 2006 Radio Experiment). many of the organisations listed in Category:Anti-Islam sentiment which have wrote on Islamophobia and prejudice/discrimination againtst Islam and Muslims (
Runnymede Trust,
EUMC) simply would not fit in Category:Criticism of Islam.
ITAQALLAH 18:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support renaming Current name is definately in conflict with our NOR and NPOV policies.
Kyaa the Catlord (
talk) 03:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support, as per nom. --
Matt57 (
talk•
contribs) 05:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support, per nom
152.30.5.1
- Support, but not for the reasons stated. This one seems to be trying to be a subset of
Category:Criticism of religion so should just be criticism for sensibility sake. However "Anti" categories are not disallowed in themselves as of yet. See
Category:Anti-communism,
Category:Anti-Gnosticism, and
Category:Anti-Hinduism. And by the same token, yes,
Category:Anti-Islam sentiment. I get that Islam is "different" and that they're "all crazy" or whatever. However I think some of us are policing that category enough that living people are rarely in it and when they are they're often just researchers of the issue. (Or in a few cases people imprisoned for violent
hate crimes on Muslims)--
T. Anthony (
talk) 11:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment The idea that the cat has been policed enough seems false to me. I just removed
Sam Harris from it as I made this nomination.
VanTucky
talk 02:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- He must have been on for like a minute because I check it regularly.--
T. Anthony (
talk) 04:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Comment - Category:Anti-Islam appears to be redundant in the light of Category:Anti-Islam sentiment. as said above, not all Anti-Islam views can be classed as criticism, so any entries within the renamed category would require re-examining.
ITAQALLAH 18:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
- Support - deletion would be better but failing that a more NPOV name should be used.--
Boreas 21:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
reply
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