I oppose this being included. How is a practice among a few Wikipedia users relevant to anything? And "some" wiki communities - which are these, except Wikipedia? Fredrik 14:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC) reply
I've also seen it used (once) on WikiWiki. Other communities have something equivalent, but call it something different. Martin 16:43, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've seen a few barnstars around, and I like the idea very much. A simple 'thank you' can work wonders for a hard-working editor's morale. I hope that the practice catches on more.
As a welcome wagon member, I've run across a few newcomers (I prefer this term over newbie, which has some negative connotations) that show exceptional enthusiasm and skill. While these people don't quite qualify for full-blown barnstars, I think that a small token awarded uniquely to newcomers would be encouraging.
I hope that I'm not being too bold, but for this purpose I propose the official acceptance of the Exceptional Newcomer Award. For lack of a better idea, the form I offer is that of a butterfly, representing the newcomer's metamorphosis into a skilled Wikipedian. (If people like the idea, but not the image, we can poll on a new image, too).
ClockworkTroll 13:17, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
No reason to have a vote! Excellent idea, start handing them out! :-) David Remahl 13:26, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Why was there even a vote? Who would be adversely affected by it?? Bart133 20:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
General Guidelines
|
Creation of an Award
|
Definition of Purpose
|
The Image
|
Guidelines for barnstars only
|
We've been getting some usual (and one vaguely offensive) images and awards added to the main Barnstars page lately. It seems to me about time that we consider agreeing on a few simple guidelines for Barnstars and other awards, so that we can at least define what kind of awards are acceptable, and what are not.
Below, I posted a quick list of possible guidelines that can hopefully function as a starting point for discussion. Remember, it's just a proposal, and just a first draft! – Clockwork Soul
I like this. However, Alkivar, I wish if you could clarify one thing for me. "No award may use or incorporate the image of any medal or commendation awarded by any nation of the world, past or present." What would you consider as "ncorporating the image? Do you mean similar design, similar ribbon, etc?
Zscout370 17:07, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I also support a general guideline to prevent abuses and exaggerations. I believe that "incorporate the image" should stay, but it would have to mean that we may not use the actual image (either a photograph or a drawing of perfect resemblance) of an existing award. In some cases, it would be unrealistic to aim at not having even a general resemblance, not to a specific award, but to a model of award, such as a medal (as in the Barnstar of National Merit) or a pin. I don't see how we could be expected (for instance) not to create medal-like awards (if it's the case) just because some of the real awards in the world are medals, or if the design of the award bears a remote and general resemblance to a type of medal (such as ribbon format or size).
Finally, I think the proposed guidelines should be made more clear as to what may be accepted as "community review and consensus". As we know, not too many Wikipedians participate in discussions aimed at creating new awards (I myself am relatively new to it). At times, a discussion could go on for a month and not have more than 5 or 6 different users participate, but if these people reach an understanding, that should be considered as reviewed and with an established consensus (?). Furthermore, something coming from the above discussion about altering the Prankstar: we should introduce a directive discouraging reviews of awards created after a proper discussion and a consensus – save for clear cases of abuse or "plotting" from a group of users to introduce bogus awards, of course. I know that other awards have been reviewed long after being introduced, and some of the now-existing ones would need reviewing, but once this is done, we should look to eliminate that kind of instability that really taints the perceived "prestige" of a Wiki award. Regards,
Redux 17:31, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Well, first I'd like to clarify that, although part of this discussion does concern the Barnstar of National Merit, the creation of which I was a part of, I'm bringing up the point that I did in as general a way as possible. Although no doubt that this particular award stands as an example of this aspect of the discussion. I find that, in the light of the importance that is placed in not using real awards as wiki awards, out of respect for the real things, it would be imperative to clarify what constitutes "using a real award". I maintain that what we should aim at is that no photographs or perfect-reproduction drawings of real awards may be used to represent a wiki award, but it's just unrealistic to ban remote resemblances, especially with the overwhealming number of awards, prizes and titles that exist worldwide. I suppose US awards are more out there because the majority of the users contributing here are from that country, and are thus best acquainted with such awards, but if we establish this precedent, it would be a question of time until a user comes by demanding that some award be removed or altered because he/she "sees a certain resemblance" to an award given in his or her country. Again, back to the practical example of the Barnstar that Zscout370 and I created. Zscout370 has just pointed out that it resembles the US award known as The Bronze Star. My point is that, although there might be a resemblance, our barnstar is not the Bronze Star, nor does it evoke it in any way, in the sense that we have not used an image or a drawing reproduction of it. It is only a resemblance which was not even intended when the award was created (objective: the Bronze Star is a military award given for bravery in combat – right? – whereas the wiki award is given for outstanding devotion to articles pertaining to any given country. Meaning: the wiki award was not inspired or moulded after the Bronze Star in any way). Regards, Redux 22:59, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I had already noticed that you understood that concept, but some of the other posts on this discussion led me to believe that some of the other users here could still be sort of unclear as to what represents "using a real award". And just as they might have been confused, others who may come by in the future looking to create new awards could get confused, and since the guidelines would aim exactly at removing any sort of misunderstanding, I thought I'd use the example of that particular barnstar to elucidate this aspect. It is my opinion that this distinction that I talked about in my previous comment should go into the guidelines, so as to make it clearer on that aspect, which would prevent that a year or two from now other users get into a discussion over remote resemblances between real awards and wiki awards. Regards, Redux 03:35, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
If the medal thing is settled, is there anybody that objects to accepting the guidelines in their current form? Shall we open it to a vote?
I want to vote for it, but I still feel that we need to elaborate a little more on the "community review" and "consensus" part (section pertaining to the creation of new awards). Since this talk page is the appropriate forum to discuss awards (creation: purpose, image, etc.), it is my opinion that we should accord that the community review and the consensus should be those happening/reached within this talk page, regardless of how many users happen to participate. That would reduce: 1)That we have to transfer or redo discussions in other forums (such as the Village Pump); 2)That people come to question awards on the grounds that "only" 5, 6 or 7 (or whatever number) users discussed them. The bottom line would be (although we'd not write quite that): one can't complain if the community was oblivious to what was happening here, which is no fault of the users actually involved in discussions about awards. Something along that line. Regards, Redux 19:18, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Seems good enough for me. Thanks ClockworkSoul. Regards, Redux 01:43, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Alrighty then! I'm going to create a page called Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals as a home for the guidelines, and move any new proposals there.
Current standings: (7/0/0) – No end date specified.
Support
Oppose
Neutral
Comment
Throughout the months, there was nothing on the "discussion format" section. Now I'm proposing some by myself. If there's no objection I'll put them onto the project page.
Hope to see more input into my rules! D e ryc k C. 05:43:23, 2005-09-03 (UTC)
Or, do we simply remove the "discussion format" section (per your opinion, that overlapps the guidelines)? D e ryc k C. 09:10, 13 September 2005 (UTC) reply
I oppose this being included. How is a practice among a few Wikipedia users relevant to anything? And "some" wiki communities - which are these, except Wikipedia? Fredrik 14:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC) reply
I've also seen it used (once) on WikiWiki. Other communities have something equivalent, but call it something different. Martin 16:43, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've seen a few barnstars around, and I like the idea very much. A simple 'thank you' can work wonders for a hard-working editor's morale. I hope that the practice catches on more.
As a welcome wagon member, I've run across a few newcomers (I prefer this term over newbie, which has some negative connotations) that show exceptional enthusiasm and skill. While these people don't quite qualify for full-blown barnstars, I think that a small token awarded uniquely to newcomers would be encouraging.
I hope that I'm not being too bold, but for this purpose I propose the official acceptance of the Exceptional Newcomer Award. For lack of a better idea, the form I offer is that of a butterfly, representing the newcomer's metamorphosis into a skilled Wikipedian. (If people like the idea, but not the image, we can poll on a new image, too).
ClockworkTroll 13:17, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
No reason to have a vote! Excellent idea, start handing them out! :-) David Remahl 13:26, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Why was there even a vote? Who would be adversely affected by it?? Bart133 20:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
General Guidelines
|
Creation of an Award
|
Definition of Purpose
|
The Image
|
Guidelines for barnstars only
|
We've been getting some usual (and one vaguely offensive) images and awards added to the main Barnstars page lately. It seems to me about time that we consider agreeing on a few simple guidelines for Barnstars and other awards, so that we can at least define what kind of awards are acceptable, and what are not.
Below, I posted a quick list of possible guidelines that can hopefully function as a starting point for discussion. Remember, it's just a proposal, and just a first draft! – Clockwork Soul
I like this. However, Alkivar, I wish if you could clarify one thing for me. "No award may use or incorporate the image of any medal or commendation awarded by any nation of the world, past or present." What would you consider as "ncorporating the image? Do you mean similar design, similar ribbon, etc?
Zscout370 17:07, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I also support a general guideline to prevent abuses and exaggerations. I believe that "incorporate the image" should stay, but it would have to mean that we may not use the actual image (either a photograph or a drawing of perfect resemblance) of an existing award. In some cases, it would be unrealistic to aim at not having even a general resemblance, not to a specific award, but to a model of award, such as a medal (as in the Barnstar of National Merit) or a pin. I don't see how we could be expected (for instance) not to create medal-like awards (if it's the case) just because some of the real awards in the world are medals, or if the design of the award bears a remote and general resemblance to a type of medal (such as ribbon format or size).
Finally, I think the proposed guidelines should be made more clear as to what may be accepted as "community review and consensus". As we know, not too many Wikipedians participate in discussions aimed at creating new awards (I myself am relatively new to it). At times, a discussion could go on for a month and not have more than 5 or 6 different users participate, but if these people reach an understanding, that should be considered as reviewed and with an established consensus (?). Furthermore, something coming from the above discussion about altering the Prankstar: we should introduce a directive discouraging reviews of awards created after a proper discussion and a consensus – save for clear cases of abuse or "plotting" from a group of users to introduce bogus awards, of course. I know that other awards have been reviewed long after being introduced, and some of the now-existing ones would need reviewing, but once this is done, we should look to eliminate that kind of instability that really taints the perceived "prestige" of a Wiki award. Regards,
Redux 17:31, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Well, first I'd like to clarify that, although part of this discussion does concern the Barnstar of National Merit, the creation of which I was a part of, I'm bringing up the point that I did in as general a way as possible. Although no doubt that this particular award stands as an example of this aspect of the discussion. I find that, in the light of the importance that is placed in not using real awards as wiki awards, out of respect for the real things, it would be imperative to clarify what constitutes "using a real award". I maintain that what we should aim at is that no photographs or perfect-reproduction drawings of real awards may be used to represent a wiki award, but it's just unrealistic to ban remote resemblances, especially with the overwhealming number of awards, prizes and titles that exist worldwide. I suppose US awards are more out there because the majority of the users contributing here are from that country, and are thus best acquainted with such awards, but if we establish this precedent, it would be a question of time until a user comes by demanding that some award be removed or altered because he/she "sees a certain resemblance" to an award given in his or her country. Again, back to the practical example of the Barnstar that Zscout370 and I created. Zscout370 has just pointed out that it resembles the US award known as The Bronze Star. My point is that, although there might be a resemblance, our barnstar is not the Bronze Star, nor does it evoke it in any way, in the sense that we have not used an image or a drawing reproduction of it. It is only a resemblance which was not even intended when the award was created (objective: the Bronze Star is a military award given for bravery in combat – right? – whereas the wiki award is given for outstanding devotion to articles pertaining to any given country. Meaning: the wiki award was not inspired or moulded after the Bronze Star in any way). Regards, Redux 22:59, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I had already noticed that you understood that concept, but some of the other posts on this discussion led me to believe that some of the other users here could still be sort of unclear as to what represents "using a real award". And just as they might have been confused, others who may come by in the future looking to create new awards could get confused, and since the guidelines would aim exactly at removing any sort of misunderstanding, I thought I'd use the example of that particular barnstar to elucidate this aspect. It is my opinion that this distinction that I talked about in my previous comment should go into the guidelines, so as to make it clearer on that aspect, which would prevent that a year or two from now other users get into a discussion over remote resemblances between real awards and wiki awards. Regards, Redux 03:35, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
If the medal thing is settled, is there anybody that objects to accepting the guidelines in their current form? Shall we open it to a vote?
I want to vote for it, but I still feel that we need to elaborate a little more on the "community review" and "consensus" part (section pertaining to the creation of new awards). Since this talk page is the appropriate forum to discuss awards (creation: purpose, image, etc.), it is my opinion that we should accord that the community review and the consensus should be those happening/reached within this talk page, regardless of how many users happen to participate. That would reduce: 1)That we have to transfer or redo discussions in other forums (such as the Village Pump); 2)That people come to question awards on the grounds that "only" 5, 6 or 7 (or whatever number) users discussed them. The bottom line would be (although we'd not write quite that): one can't complain if the community was oblivious to what was happening here, which is no fault of the users actually involved in discussions about awards. Something along that line. Regards, Redux 19:18, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Seems good enough for me. Thanks ClockworkSoul. Regards, Redux 01:43, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Alrighty then! I'm going to create a page called Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals as a home for the guidelines, and move any new proposals there.
Current standings: (7/0/0) – No end date specified.
Support
Oppose
Neutral
Comment
Throughout the months, there was nothing on the "discussion format" section. Now I'm proposing some by myself. If there's no objection I'll put them onto the project page.
Hope to see more input into my rules! D e ryc k C. 05:43:23, 2005-09-03 (UTC)
Or, do we simply remove the "discussion format" section (per your opinion, that overlapps the guidelines)? D e ryc k C. 09:10, 13 September 2005 (UTC) reply