- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. This isn't the place for a merge discussion, and even those supporting a merge suggest that the substance in the articles is reasonable. There's no support for deleting from anyone besides the nominator. There are also procedural issues here in that two pages are listed but one of them has no AfD notice. As such, I'm closing this as keep, and recommending that any merge proposals be taken to the talk page. Vanamonde ( talk) 06:22, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
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- Ybor Stadium ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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I just realized there are currently article for two Rays ballparks that don't exist: the Rays' St. Pete waterfront proposal from 2007 and the Ybor Stadium that was proposed last week. Neither deserves an article at this time, imo, as the first proposal was dropped several years ago and the second is far from being a done deal. Both articles should be deleted and merged into a paragraph or two in Tampa Bay Rays and/or Tropicana Field, at least until ground is broken in Ybor. Zeng8r ( talk) 05:22, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD cannot be processed correctly because of an issue with the header. Please make sure the header has only 1 article, and doesn't have any HTML encoded characters.— cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 05:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: A merge would probably be better in this scenario rather than being in AfD. There's articles on here about "future" projects or proposed projects that never made it past design phase and if it might not be a done deal than that could be explained in the article as a legit criticism. (Kind of curious on how it can't be a done deal unless you meant in parallel with the Rays Ballpark.) – TheGridExe ( talk) 12:55, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- comment Merge-delete is my preference as well. Perhaps I started this discussion in the wrong venue?... Zeng8r ( talk) 16:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, no merge. These are two separate stadium proposals, and it seems the Ybor proposal is happening. Even if it doesn't, proposed stadiums can be notable with sourcing. See the 22 items in Category:Unbuilt stadiums in the United States. – Muboshgu ( talk) 13:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC):
- comment I tend to be a Wiki-inclusionst, but your argument opens the door for dozens and dozens of articles about unbuilt stadiums all over the world. Do you realize how often ballpark / stadium ideas have been introduced over the years - with artists' renditions and all - across just the major sports leagues? Let's just focus on baseball in the Tampa Bay area. Before the Rays, there were at least a half dozen press conferences announcing serious plans to build a ballpark in various locations around Tampa or St. Pete. My favorite was a dome remarkably like Tropicana Field that was supposed to be built right down the street from where I lived, where Raymond James Stadium now stands. Should every one of those unbuilt proposals get an article? I don't think so. Venues-that-never-were should get a mention in an article about a related sports team or sports venue, IF they're still deemed important enough for that. Only very, very few are notable enough for their own article.
- The Ray's St. Pete waterfront proposal probably should've never gotten an independent article, and it definitely should be culled now. I personally love the Ybor ballpark idea, but it's FAR from a done deal at this point. If the financing somehow comes together and bulldozers start rumbling, the current article text could be restored from the redirect. Zeng8r ( talk)
- Keep. Wikipedia already has dozens and dozens of articles about proposed stadiums, so the slippery slope doesn't really work here. If there are enough sources to indicate notability, which I'm confident is the case with Ybor Stadium, proposed or unfinished ballparks getting articles is normal. No opinion on Rays Ballpark. Blackguard 17:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Merge – Rays Ballpark and Ybor Stadium should be merged. SportsFan007 ( talk) 17:21, 17 July 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
- IDEA! I still don't think that these two stadium ideas have enough notability for an article, even combined. How about this - a new section at Baseball in the Tampa Bay area discussion the many stadium proposals over the years, including these two? (I honestly thought I'd already written a section like that years ago, but it's not there, so maybe it slipped off my to-do list.) The current two articles could be redirected to that section. Thoughts? Zeng8r ( talk) 21:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Keep, no merge. Clearly notable per WP:GNG, even if it's never built. - BilCat ( talk) 02:39, 18 July 2018 (UTC)- I'm withdrawing my input. Running a
merge discussion and an AFD at the same time? No thanks, just keep me out of it. -
BilCat (
talk)
00:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- Don't understand the problem. As per usual in my 11 years editing Wikipedia, I'm trying to get as much input from as many interested parties as possible to come up with a reasonable consensus. Guess I should start deleting/moving/whatever without asking if anyone else has an opinion... Zeng8r ( talk) 01:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- I'm withdrawing my input. Running a
merge discussion and an AFD at the same time? No thanks, just keep me out of it. -
BilCat (
talk)
00:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think it's more that an AfD calls for a more immediate action versus a merge with no solid time restriction. The AfD is most likely going to become a 'no consensus' or keep based on that action. – TheGridExe ( talk) 19:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep both per Bilcat. I have been cynical about Ybor since I heard that was their preferred location. I've been telling anyone who has asked me about it in the last week that "I'll believe this when there are shovels in the ground" after having been teased enough about stadiums in the last 10 years. Having said that, if the proposals for Al Lang and Carillon didn't exist, there would be no reason not to have an Ybor article so soon. Tampabay721 ( talk) 03:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Merge to Tampa Bay Rays. This is not even a firm proposal. Even if this stadium gets built, it's unlikely to retain the name. Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball that can predict what's going to happen, this should be just a section within the Rays article until (if!) some decisions are made and an accurate name can be provided. Jacona ( talk) 14:02, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep at least the 2007 proposal as that clearly passes WP:GNG. The Ybor ballpark seems a bit more speculative to me but will be notable even if it fails. Neither should be merged. SportingFlyer talk 21:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Is Rays Ballpark a part of this AfD or not? Because it was added after the fact into this discussion, but the page doesn't have an AfD notice. – Muboshgu ( talk) 01:28, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. This isn't the place for a merge discussion, and even those supporting a merge suggest that the substance in the articles is reasonable. There's no support for deleting from anyone besides the nominator. There are also procedural issues here in that two pages are listed but one of them has no AfD notice. As such, I'm closing this as keep, and recommending that any merge proposals be taken to the talk page. Vanamonde ( talk) 06:22, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ybor Stadium ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Rays Ballpark ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I just realized there are currently article for two Rays ballparks that don't exist: the Rays' St. Pete waterfront proposal from 2007 and the Ybor Stadium that was proposed last week. Neither deserves an article at this time, imo, as the first proposal was dropped several years ago and the second is far from being a done deal. Both articles should be deleted and merged into a paragraph or two in Tampa Bay Rays and/or Tropicana Field, at least until ground is broken in Ybor. Zeng8r ( talk) 05:22, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD cannot be processed correctly because of an issue with the header. Please make sure the header has only 1 article, and doesn't have any HTML encoded characters.— cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 05:33, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: A merge would probably be better in this scenario rather than being in AfD. There's articles on here about "future" projects or proposed projects that never made it past design phase and if it might not be a done deal than that could be explained in the article as a legit criticism. (Kind of curious on how it can't be a done deal unless you meant in parallel with the Rays Ballpark.) – TheGridExe ( talk) 12:55, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- comment Merge-delete is my preference as well. Perhaps I started this discussion in the wrong venue?... Zeng8r ( talk) 16:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, no merge. These are two separate stadium proposals, and it seems the Ybor proposal is happening. Even if it doesn't, proposed stadiums can be notable with sourcing. See the 22 items in Category:Unbuilt stadiums in the United States. – Muboshgu ( talk) 13:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC):
- comment I tend to be a Wiki-inclusionst, but your argument opens the door for dozens and dozens of articles about unbuilt stadiums all over the world. Do you realize how often ballpark / stadium ideas have been introduced over the years - with artists' renditions and all - across just the major sports leagues? Let's just focus on baseball in the Tampa Bay area. Before the Rays, there were at least a half dozen press conferences announcing serious plans to build a ballpark in various locations around Tampa or St. Pete. My favorite was a dome remarkably like Tropicana Field that was supposed to be built right down the street from where I lived, where Raymond James Stadium now stands. Should every one of those unbuilt proposals get an article? I don't think so. Venues-that-never-were should get a mention in an article about a related sports team or sports venue, IF they're still deemed important enough for that. Only very, very few are notable enough for their own article.
- The Ray's St. Pete waterfront proposal probably should've never gotten an independent article, and it definitely should be culled now. I personally love the Ybor ballpark idea, but it's FAR from a done deal at this point. If the financing somehow comes together and bulldozers start rumbling, the current article text could be restored from the redirect. Zeng8r ( talk)
- Keep. Wikipedia already has dozens and dozens of articles about proposed stadiums, so the slippery slope doesn't really work here. If there are enough sources to indicate notability, which I'm confident is the case with Ybor Stadium, proposed or unfinished ballparks getting articles is normal. No opinion on Rays Ballpark. Blackguard 17:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
- Merge – Rays Ballpark and Ybor Stadium should be merged. SportsFan007 ( talk) 17:21, 17 July 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
- IDEA! I still don't think that these two stadium ideas have enough notability for an article, even combined. How about this - a new section at Baseball in the Tampa Bay area discussion the many stadium proposals over the years, including these two? (I honestly thought I'd already written a section like that years ago, but it's not there, so maybe it slipped off my to-do list.) The current two articles could be redirected to that section. Thoughts? Zeng8r ( talk) 21:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Keep, no merge. Clearly notable per WP:GNG, even if it's never built. - BilCat ( talk) 02:39, 18 July 2018 (UTC)- I'm withdrawing my input. Running a
merge discussion and an AFD at the same time? No thanks, just keep me out of it. -
BilCat (
talk)
00:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- Don't understand the problem. As per usual in my 11 years editing Wikipedia, I'm trying to get as much input from as many interested parties as possible to come up with a reasonable consensus. Guess I should start deleting/moving/whatever without asking if anyone else has an opinion... Zeng8r ( talk) 01:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- I'm withdrawing my input. Running a
merge discussion and an AFD at the same time? No thanks, just keep me out of it. -
BilCat (
talk)
00:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think it's more that an AfD calls for a more immediate action versus a merge with no solid time restriction. The AfD is most likely going to become a 'no consensus' or keep based on that action. – TheGridExe ( talk) 19:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep both per Bilcat. I have been cynical about Ybor since I heard that was their preferred location. I've been telling anyone who has asked me about it in the last week that "I'll believe this when there are shovels in the ground" after having been teased enough about stadiums in the last 10 years. Having said that, if the proposals for Al Lang and Carillon didn't exist, there would be no reason not to have an Ybor article so soon. Tampabay721 ( talk) 03:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 03:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Merge to Tampa Bay Rays. This is not even a firm proposal. Even if this stadium gets built, it's unlikely to retain the name. Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball that can predict what's going to happen, this should be just a section within the Rays article until (if!) some decisions are made and an accurate name can be provided. Jacona ( talk) 14:02, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep at least the 2007 proposal as that clearly passes WP:GNG. The Ybor ballpark seems a bit more speculative to me but will be notable even if it fails. Neither should be merged. SportingFlyer talk 21:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
- Is Rays Ballpark a part of this AfD or not? Because it was added after the fact into this discussion, but the page doesn't have an AfD notice. – Muboshgu ( talk) 01:28, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.