Photos • Location
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Yampai, Arizona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Renomination of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yampai, Arizona. The basis for describing this as a "populated place" is unclear, as no reliable source has been found that describes it as such. Maps show, and newspaper results confirm, that this was simply a named spot on the railroad. – dlthewave ☎ 18:04, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Arizona. – dlthewave ☎ 18:04, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- delete There are two Delano OWI photos which clearly show this as a rail spot and not a settlement; it was just a passing siding, which is still the case. Mangoe ( talk) 18:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - historical populated location. Lots of mentions from the 1880s through the 1990s: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. Onel5969 TT me 23:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- None of these newspaper clippings describe Yampai as a populated place, much less a legally recognized one as required by GEOLAND. They're just passing mentions that use it as a landmark; there's no in-depth coverage of the place itself that could be used to meet GNG or write an article. – dlthewave ☎ 02:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. According to JSTOR 40169505, "Yampai" was a name used by Antoine Leroux in an 1861 expedition to refer to the Yavapai and Hualapai people (whom he erroneously failed to distinguish). The "mistaken name lives on in Yampai Cliffs, Yampai Divide and Yampai Canyon". There is also Yampai Siding, mentioned elsewhere in the same source. Except for the railway siding these appear to be geographic features, not names of towns. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:19, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. ~ Pog ing Juan 16:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Are these library of congress photos [1] the same place?-- Milowent • has spoken 21:35, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Well its a Keep for me then. Another debate here like in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parma, Colorado. I only chime in on the AfDs that have a decent claim to notability.-- Milowent • has spoken 15:45, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:11, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete No evidence this meets GEOLAND. I do not believe the photographs prove it ever was a populated place. The information about them is not from a reliable source - it was provided by the photographer. I searched and found that the abandoned gas station is located at 35°29′07″N 113°33′46″W / 35.485259°N 113.562815°W which puts it in Truxton, Arizona, around 20 miles west of Yampai. Incredible, the Truxton article has a photograph of the sign when it still had all its letters. Milowent, you should reconsider your position. If you look at a satellite image of the Yampai location, you will see there is nothing there, certainly not the building in those photographs. This is a link to the photo of the sign at the LOC, it was taken about 10 years earlier by the same photographer. She knew the location was Truxton then. MB 05:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Glad you sorted out that the Bell Gas photo is incorrectly labeled. But we do have this one
[2] of the rail station titled "Yampai, Arizona. Going through the town". Maybe
Jack Delano inaccurately described it. As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[3]. At the level of coverage we've found, I am in favor of keeping this one, and realize some editors have a different general view of such entries.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
18:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yampai was a named place along the railroad. The photo shows a sign, the railroad likely stopped there. But rail stations are not inherently notable and there is no evidence this was a populated place that meets GEOLAND either. MB 19:27, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Glad you sorted out that the Bell Gas photo is incorrectly labeled. But we do have this one
[2] of the rail station titled "Yampai, Arizona. Going through the town". Maybe
Jack Delano inaccurately described it. As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[3]. At the level of coverage we've found, I am in favor of keeping this one, and realize some editors have a different general view of such entries.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
18:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:V, since there is no reliable source to support the statement that this is a populated place. Mentions of it as a location by newspapers do not support this assertion. Trying to claim that there was a populated place there on the basis of editors' interpretation of photographs is original research, and the fact that structures like a "railway company tool house" [4] are there does not support the assertion that it's a populated place either. Hut 8.5 09:42, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not interpreting photographs to be clear. I just see those sources I cited calling it a town. Maybe they are big fat liars. Realistically they are probably using the term pretty loosely.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
12:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The only mention of "town" on the page you linked to is the caption of
this photograph.
Jack Delano was a photographer and not a reliable source for this type of information, and it sounds like his train briefly stopped there so it's not like he had much to go on anyway. I am amazed at just how much people are willing to scrape barrels in order to keep articles about dubious "populated places" like this, for any other topic you'd be laughed at for claiming this one photo caption is "a decent claim to notability".
Hut 8.5
12:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- There's at least one other mention of it as a "town", slim though it may be, as I stated above: "As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[5]." All I'm saying is that there are sources calling it a town, and wikipedia editors who say those sources are bad. I'm not losing sleep over it, I don't see a huge benefit to deleting the article. I realize policy may favor it.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
19:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Indubitable proof, the September 24, 1924 comic of Barney Google and Spark Plug is all about the TOWN of Yampai, Arizona, anticipating our back and forth in this AFD, 98 years ago. The short guy wants to check out good old Yampai, and the big guy insists there's nothing there. lol. Image [6]-- Milowent • has spoken 20:51, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Added a reference to the station telegrapher and his wife making "their home" at Yampai in 1918. Case closed!!--
Milowent •
has
spoken
21:05, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The fact a telegrapher lived there doesn't make it a populated place, telegraph stations were placed in the middle of nowhere (especially next to rural train stations because the telegraph often followed the line). The book doesn't explicitly state that Yampai is a town, merely that somebody passed through it. And that comic isn't a reliable source about Arizona geography. Bear in mind that
WP:GEOLAND only gives near-automatic notability to legally recognised populated places, even if Yampai was a populated place without legal recognition it doesn't qualify for this. GEOLAND says that populated places without legal recognition need to pass the GNG, which these sources clearly don't do.
Hut 8.5
08:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- I can't believe you don't accept a 1924 comic as proof of Yampai's notability (yes I'm kidding!). The telegrapher and his wife made "their home" in Yampai. I've proven it was a populated place at one point. I've proven sources say it was a town. But I cannot combat the clear bias of Wikipedians against the glorious past of Yampai!!!! So it goes, I've done some work on railroad line articles where at times this stuff can be better covered, see, e.g.,
San Francisco and San Joaquin Valley Railroad. Interestingly (at least to me), Yampai seems to have been in the news most often due to train derailments and other accidents. It is also a place where train enthusiasts seem to like to see trains go by.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
13:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The fact that somebody and his wife lived there once doesn't make it a populated place, especially since he worked at the station. Hut 8.5 17:59, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- I can't believe you don't accept a 1924 comic as proof of Yampai's notability (yes I'm kidding!). The telegrapher and his wife made "their home" in Yampai. I've proven it was a populated place at one point. I've proven sources say it was a town. But I cannot combat the clear bias of Wikipedians against the glorious past of Yampai!!!! So it goes, I've done some work on railroad line articles where at times this stuff can be better covered, see, e.g.,
San Francisco and San Joaquin Valley Railroad. Interestingly (at least to me), Yampai seems to have been in the news most often due to train derailments and other accidents. It is also a place where train enthusiasts seem to like to see trains go by.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
13:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The fact a telegrapher lived there doesn't make it a populated place, telegraph stations were placed in the middle of nowhere (especially next to rural train stations because the telegraph often followed the line). The book doesn't explicitly state that Yampai is a town, merely that somebody passed through it. And that comic isn't a reliable source about Arizona geography. Bear in mind that
WP:GEOLAND only gives near-automatic notability to legally recognised populated places, even if Yampai was a populated place without legal recognition it doesn't qualify for this. GEOLAND says that populated places without legal recognition need to pass the GNG, which these sources clearly don't do.
Hut 8.5
08:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- There's at least one other mention of it as a "town", slim though it may be, as I stated above: "As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[5]." All I'm saying is that there are sources calling it a town, and wikipedia editors who say those sources are bad. I'm not losing sleep over it, I don't see a huge benefit to deleting the article. I realize policy may favor it.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
19:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The only mention of "town" on the page you linked to is the caption of
this photograph.
Jack Delano was a photographer and not a reliable source for this type of information, and it sounds like his train briefly stopped there so it's not like he had much to go on anyway. I am amazed at just how much people are willing to scrape barrels in order to keep articles about dubious "populated places" like this, for any other topic you'd be laughed at for claiming this one photo caption is "a decent claim to notability".
Hut 8.5
12:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not interpreting photographs to be clear. I just see those sources I cited calling it a town. Maybe they are big fat liars. Realistically they are probably using the term pretty loosely.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
12:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete as per nom Idunnox3 ( talk) 23:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Yampai, Arizona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Renomination of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yampai, Arizona. The basis for describing this as a "populated place" is unclear, as no reliable source has been found that describes it as such. Maps show, and newspaper results confirm, that this was simply a named spot on the railroad. – dlthewave ☎ 18:04, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Arizona. – dlthewave ☎ 18:04, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- delete There are two Delano OWI photos which clearly show this as a rail spot and not a settlement; it was just a passing siding, which is still the case. Mangoe ( talk) 18:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - historical populated location. Lots of mentions from the 1880s through the 1990s: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this. Onel5969 TT me 23:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
- None of these newspaper clippings describe Yampai as a populated place, much less a legally recognized one as required by GEOLAND. They're just passing mentions that use it as a landmark; there's no in-depth coverage of the place itself that could be used to meet GNG or write an article. – dlthewave ☎ 02:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. According to JSTOR 40169505, "Yampai" was a name used by Antoine Leroux in an 1861 expedition to refer to the Yavapai and Hualapai people (whom he erroneously failed to distinguish). The "mistaken name lives on in Yampai Cliffs, Yampai Divide and Yampai Canyon". There is also Yampai Siding, mentioned elsewhere in the same source. Except for the railway siding these appear to be geographic features, not names of towns. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:19, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. ~ Pog ing Juan 16:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Are these library of congress photos [1] the same place?-- Milowent • has spoken 21:35, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Well its a Keep for me then. Another debate here like in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parma, Colorado. I only chime in on the AfDs that have a decent claim to notability.-- Milowent • has spoken 15:45, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:11, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete No evidence this meets GEOLAND. I do not believe the photographs prove it ever was a populated place. The information about them is not from a reliable source - it was provided by the photographer. I searched and found that the abandoned gas station is located at 35°29′07″N 113°33′46″W / 35.485259°N 113.562815°W which puts it in Truxton, Arizona, around 20 miles west of Yampai. Incredible, the Truxton article has a photograph of the sign when it still had all its letters. Milowent, you should reconsider your position. If you look at a satellite image of the Yampai location, you will see there is nothing there, certainly not the building in those photographs. This is a link to the photo of the sign at the LOC, it was taken about 10 years earlier by the same photographer. She knew the location was Truxton then. MB 05:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Glad you sorted out that the Bell Gas photo is incorrectly labeled. But we do have this one
[2] of the rail station titled "Yampai, Arizona. Going through the town". Maybe
Jack Delano inaccurately described it. As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[3]. At the level of coverage we've found, I am in favor of keeping this one, and realize some editors have a different general view of such entries.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
18:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Yampai was a named place along the railroad. The photo shows a sign, the railroad likely stopped there. But rail stations are not inherently notable and there is no evidence this was a populated place that meets GEOLAND either. MB 19:27, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Glad you sorted out that the Bell Gas photo is incorrectly labeled. But we do have this one
[2] of the rail station titled "Yampai, Arizona. Going through the town". Maybe
Jack Delano inaccurately described it. As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[3]. At the level of coverage we've found, I am in favor of keeping this one, and realize some editors have a different general view of such entries.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
18:18, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:V, since there is no reliable source to support the statement that this is a populated place. Mentions of it as a location by newspapers do not support this assertion. Trying to claim that there was a populated place there on the basis of editors' interpretation of photographs is original research, and the fact that structures like a "railway company tool house" [4] are there does not support the assertion that it's a populated place either. Hut 8.5 09:42, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not interpreting photographs to be clear. I just see those sources I cited calling it a town. Maybe they are big fat liars. Realistically they are probably using the term pretty loosely.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
12:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The only mention of "town" on the page you linked to is the caption of
this photograph.
Jack Delano was a photographer and not a reliable source for this type of information, and it sounds like his train briefly stopped there so it's not like he had much to go on anyway. I am amazed at just how much people are willing to scrape barrels in order to keep articles about dubious "populated places" like this, for any other topic you'd be laughed at for claiming this one photo caption is "a decent claim to notability".
Hut 8.5
12:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- There's at least one other mention of it as a "town", slim though it may be, as I stated above: "As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[5]." All I'm saying is that there are sources calling it a town, and wikipedia editors who say those sources are bad. I'm not losing sleep over it, I don't see a huge benefit to deleting the article. I realize policy may favor it.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
19:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Indubitable proof, the September 24, 1924 comic of Barney Google and Spark Plug is all about the TOWN of Yampai, Arizona, anticipating our back and forth in this AFD, 98 years ago. The short guy wants to check out good old Yampai, and the big guy insists there's nothing there. lol. Image [6]-- Milowent • has spoken 20:51, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Added a reference to the station telegrapher and his wife making "their home" at Yampai in 1918. Case closed!!--
Milowent •
has
spoken
21:05, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The fact a telegrapher lived there doesn't make it a populated place, telegraph stations were placed in the middle of nowhere (especially next to rural train stations because the telegraph often followed the line). The book doesn't explicitly state that Yampai is a town, merely that somebody passed through it. And that comic isn't a reliable source about Arizona geography. Bear in mind that
WP:GEOLAND only gives near-automatic notability to legally recognised populated places, even if Yampai was a populated place without legal recognition it doesn't qualify for this. GEOLAND says that populated places without legal recognition need to pass the GNG, which these sources clearly don't do.
Hut 8.5
08:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- I can't believe you don't accept a 1924 comic as proof of Yampai's notability (yes I'm kidding!). The telegrapher and his wife made "their home" in Yampai. I've proven it was a populated place at one point. I've proven sources say it was a town. But I cannot combat the clear bias of Wikipedians against the glorious past of Yampai!!!! So it goes, I've done some work on railroad line articles where at times this stuff can be better covered, see, e.g.,
San Francisco and San Joaquin Valley Railroad. Interestingly (at least to me), Yampai seems to have been in the news most often due to train derailments and other accidents. It is also a place where train enthusiasts seem to like to see trains go by.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
13:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The fact that somebody and his wife lived there once doesn't make it a populated place, especially since he worked at the station. Hut 8.5 17:59, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- I can't believe you don't accept a 1924 comic as proof of Yampai's notability (yes I'm kidding!). The telegrapher and his wife made "their home" in Yampai. I've proven it was a populated place at one point. I've proven sources say it was a town. But I cannot combat the clear bias of Wikipedians against the glorious past of Yampai!!!! So it goes, I've done some work on railroad line articles where at times this stuff can be better covered, see, e.g.,
San Francisco and San Joaquin Valley Railroad. Interestingly (at least to me), Yampai seems to have been in the news most often due to train derailments and other accidents. It is also a place where train enthusiasts seem to like to see trains go by.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
13:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- The fact a telegrapher lived there doesn't make it a populated place, telegraph stations were placed in the middle of nowhere (especially next to rural train stations because the telegraph often followed the line). The book doesn't explicitly state that Yampai is a town, merely that somebody passed through it. And that comic isn't a reliable source about Arizona geography. Bear in mind that
WP:GEOLAND only gives near-automatic notability to legally recognised populated places, even if Yampai was a populated place without legal recognition it doesn't qualify for this. GEOLAND says that populated places without legal recognition need to pass the GNG, which these sources clearly don't do.
Hut 8.5
08:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
- There's at least one other mention of it as a "town", slim though it may be, as I stated above: "As has this book "We'd passed from one small town to another: Ashfork to Seligman, on through Yampai, Truxton, Peach Springs, Valentine ...."
[5]." All I'm saying is that there are sources calling it a town, and wikipedia editors who say those sources are bad. I'm not losing sleep over it, I don't see a huge benefit to deleting the article. I realize policy may favor it.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
19:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- The only mention of "town" on the page you linked to is the caption of
this photograph.
Jack Delano was a photographer and not a reliable source for this type of information, and it sounds like his train briefly stopped there so it's not like he had much to go on anyway. I am amazed at just how much people are willing to scrape barrels in order to keep articles about dubious "populated places" like this, for any other topic you'd be laughed at for claiming this one photo caption is "a decent claim to notability".
Hut 8.5
12:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not interpreting photographs to be clear. I just see those sources I cited calling it a town. Maybe they are big fat liars. Realistically they are probably using the term pretty loosely.--
Milowent •
has
spoken
12:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete as per nom Idunnox3 ( talk) 23:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.