- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Islamic State. My role as an administrator is primarily to determine whether or not to delete, and in this case there is clear consensus against outright deletion, but no consensus for keeping a separate article either.
However, the requested edits to merge the article are something I would do in my capacity as a regular editor. It appears the most popular option here is to merge and redirect to the caliphate article. While considering how to do this however, I struggled to fit it in neatly. The contemporary dreams of a worldwide caliphate are an extreme WP:FRINGE view, whose primary adherents are the Islamic State. The caliphate article is mostly about the historical caliphates, leaving the content here feel out of place. While there is a section on the views of IS in the caliphate article, it also guides readers to the "main article" on the Islamic State. In that article, the organization's ambitions for a worldwide caliphate is well covered, and that article is therefore a more appropriate redirect target.
In my capacity as a regular editor, I will therefore redirect this page to Islamic State. Since the topic already appears to be well covered in that article, I am not merging anything from this article at this point, but the article history remains in case someone thinks otherwise. My decision as a regular editor may of course be amended by any editor who feels they have good cause to do so. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:14, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
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- Worldwide caliphate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Page doesn't falls under WP:NOTE and content would be better suited to belong under another page, e.g., the Islamic State page as most of the content in this page references said page content. - NHPluto ( talk) 10:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Islam-related deletion discussions.
Shellwood (
talk)
10:36, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete: Agreed, all of this material will either belong under Caliphate or Islamic State - the Islamic State concept of a caliphate is not obviously any different from the conventional conceptual framework, while the phrase 'worldwide caliphate' is not obviously supported by sources and seems overwrought. Iskandar323 ( talk) 10:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Merge to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as a key part of his ideology.-- Jahaza ( talk) 21:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or merge?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 12:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Don't all caliphates claim to be "worldwide"? If the article is deleted, a simple merge would not be the right way to go. instead, the material would need to be disbursed to a lot of different places: the articles on the individual quoted proponents (not just Baghdadi),
caliphate, and
pan-Islamism
Furius (
talk)
12:03, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a wholly redundant/tautologous concept - a caliphate, by definition, is a presumptive epicenter of global Islamic statehood - and again, the sourced do not support 'worldwide caliphate' as a set phrase - they mention both words in sentences, but as a title, it's somewhat synth-like. Iskandar323 ( talk) 13:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. This google search is probably more helpful for finding sources as the one linked in the template above returns mounds of ISIS-related sources and sorting through them is rather painful. But Worldwide caliphate does seem to be distinct concept from Caliphate in that it is specific to jihadist movements of the 21st century and is wider than just the activities of ISIS. Some sources covering this:
- The caliphate question: The British government and Islamic governance
- Tyrants - section titled "A Worldwide Caliphate: Jihadism's Utopian Vision"
- Radical Islam in Central Asia: Between Pen and Rifle - discussing the organization of a proposed "worldwide Caliphate".
- Europe, Globalisation and the coming Universal Caliphate
- This is hardly exhaustive. There are plenty of sources for it - both predating ISIS and discussing the concept as an outgrowth of jihadism more generally than ISIS.
GoldenRing (
talk)
14:07, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Most of these mentions are trivial or primarily titular, without the phrase or concept of a "worldwide caliphate" being discussed at length. Google counts a mere seven mentions across those three books (six excluding the section title in the second) - none of which signifies particularly significant coverage. Iskandar323 ( talk) 15:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Merge to Caliphate. The term is certainly one that has been used and Caliphate is the most useful redirect, as it covers the different calls for a worldwide caliphate with room for expansion for others not covered. Jahaza ( talk) 03:27, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Merge and then Redirect to Caliphate looks the best option here. ─ The Aafī (talk) 14:11, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Merge to Caliphate#Worldwide caliphate (2006-present) - simple. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 06:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Islamic State. My role as an administrator is primarily to determine whether or not to delete, and in this case there is clear consensus against outright deletion, but no consensus for keeping a separate article either.
However, the requested edits to merge the article are something I would do in my capacity as a regular editor. It appears the most popular option here is to merge and redirect to the caliphate article. While considering how to do this however, I struggled to fit it in neatly. The contemporary dreams of a worldwide caliphate are an extreme WP:FRINGE view, whose primary adherents are the Islamic State. The caliphate article is mostly about the historical caliphates, leaving the content here feel out of place. While there is a section on the views of IS in the caliphate article, it also guides readers to the "main article" on the Islamic State. In that article, the organization's ambitions for a worldwide caliphate is well covered, and that article is therefore a more appropriate redirect target.
In my capacity as a regular editor, I will therefore redirect this page to Islamic State. Since the topic already appears to be well covered in that article, I am not merging anything from this article at this point, but the article history remains in case someone thinks otherwise. My decision as a regular editor may of course be amended by any editor who feels they have good cause to do so. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:14, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Worldwide caliphate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Page doesn't falls under WP:NOTE and content would be better suited to belong under another page, e.g., the Islamic State page as most of the content in this page references said page content. - NHPluto ( talk) 10:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Islam-related deletion discussions.
Shellwood (
talk)
10:36, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete: Agreed, all of this material will either belong under Caliphate or Islamic State - the Islamic State concept of a caliphate is not obviously any different from the conventional conceptual framework, while the phrase 'worldwide caliphate' is not obviously supported by sources and seems overwrought. Iskandar323 ( talk) 10:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Merge to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as a key part of his ideology.-- Jahaza ( talk) 21:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or merge?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 12:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Don't all caliphates claim to be "worldwide"? If the article is deleted, a simple merge would not be the right way to go. instead, the material would need to be disbursed to a lot of different places: the articles on the individual quoted proponents (not just Baghdadi),
caliphate, and
pan-Islamism
Furius (
talk)
12:03, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a wholly redundant/tautologous concept - a caliphate, by definition, is a presumptive epicenter of global Islamic statehood - and again, the sourced do not support 'worldwide caliphate' as a set phrase - they mention both words in sentences, but as a title, it's somewhat synth-like. Iskandar323 ( talk) 13:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. This google search is probably more helpful for finding sources as the one linked in the template above returns mounds of ISIS-related sources and sorting through them is rather painful. But Worldwide caliphate does seem to be distinct concept from Caliphate in that it is specific to jihadist movements of the 21st century and is wider than just the activities of ISIS. Some sources covering this:
- The caliphate question: The British government and Islamic governance
- Tyrants - section titled "A Worldwide Caliphate: Jihadism's Utopian Vision"
- Radical Islam in Central Asia: Between Pen and Rifle - discussing the organization of a proposed "worldwide Caliphate".
- Europe, Globalisation and the coming Universal Caliphate
- This is hardly exhaustive. There are plenty of sources for it - both predating ISIS and discussing the concept as an outgrowth of jihadism more generally than ISIS.
GoldenRing (
talk)
14:07, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Most of these mentions are trivial or primarily titular, without the phrase or concept of a "worldwide caliphate" being discussed at length. Google counts a mere seven mentions across those three books (six excluding the section title in the second) - none of which signifies particularly significant coverage. Iskandar323 ( talk) 15:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
- Merge to Caliphate. The term is certainly one that has been used and Caliphate is the most useful redirect, as it covers the different calls for a worldwide caliphate with room for expansion for others not covered. Jahaza ( talk) 03:27, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- Merge and then Redirect to Caliphate looks the best option here. ─ The Aafī (talk) 14:11, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
- Merge to Caliphate#Worldwide caliphate (2006-present) - simple. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 06:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)