- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 23:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Woodridge High School Football
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- Woodridge High School Football ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Fails both WP:N and WP:FANCRUFT. High school football teams are generally not notable and this does not appear to be an exception. While article is well-sourced, sources fall under routine coverage, especially for high school football teams. The team has not received coverage outside its immediate area, has 0 state championships, and an overall record well below .500. While a few details of the article could be incorporated into the Woodridge High School article, most of it isn't appropriate for that article either. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 20:18, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment: This is a sports article- an activity I have no desire to participate in or edit. I am basically an inclusionist and this appears to be doing no harm and is keeping a lot of people happy- lets say it is Notable in that it is a sports article that is well written and well referenced. What I will say is that if this were added to
Woodridge High School it would would be massively
WP:UNDUE, and it would have to be culled or spun off as a separate article.
ClemRutter (
talk) 20:58, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment: This article is still important enough to stay, since it is about a highschool football team, and there are so many less important articles. @
BitBytes: put dozens of hours into this article, since he is almost certainly a teacher or student/alumni of the school, and all his work does not deserve to just be deleted. Leave the article be, the school has about 700 students anyways, so there have to be some people from the school who read the article. I think this article needs a lot of work, but it does not deserve to be deleted. Instead of nominating it for deletion, why not help edit out all of the bias and non-neutral adjectives from the article, as well as copyedit it?
Bob Roberts 22:05, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete -
WP:FANCRUFT at its worst. Pretty sure there is a ton of
WP:OR also. Clear violation of
WP:NOT.
John from Idegon (
talk) 22:12, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Also note that I specifically oppose either merge or redirect. There is nothing whatsoever in this article that would be encyclopedic in the school's article and as Jon stated, we do not generally include articles on high school football teams. The very few we have (<10) are schools that are highly successful and have been for a very long time. Every article on high school football programs are about programs that have been the subject of full-length books. John from Idegon ( talk) 22:30, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - reasoning stated above.
Bob Roberts 22:14, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- BobRoberts14, you haven't stated any valid reason to keep above. Please read the instructions. John from Idegon ( talk) 22:23, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Non notable, only local coverage as well as WP:SCHOOLCRUFT. Ajf773 ( talk) 22:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Wow, someone really put some work into this! Unfortunately there's no showing the school's program is anything but locally notable - lots of Akron Beacon Journal sources - and the level of detail is far beyond what we would have for an encyclopaedia article for even a college team. Fails WP:GNG since no non-routine sources exist. SportingFlyer T· C 22:43, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oh dear. I wonder how many sections of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions apply to the arguments given by ClemRutter and BobRoberts14. Here are just a few. WP:HARMLESS, WP:INTERESTING, WP:USEFUL, WP:OTHERSTUFF. None of the reasons given relate at all to Wikipedia policies. If either of those two people wishes to, they are free to propose that the notability guidelines be changed to include such criteria as "it appears to be doing no harm", "it is keeping a lot of people happy", "someone put hours of work into this", "there are so many less important articles", and so on and so on, but this discussion will be closed on the basis of what the guidelines actually say, and NOT ONE of the reasons given for keeping has anything to do with those guidelines. That means that if the person who closes the discussion correctly follows policy they will not take them into account at all. Yhto Plwhm ( talk) 22:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no evidence that this subject satisfies any of the notability guidelines, which is unsurprising, as high school sports teams scarcely ever do. Yhto Plwhm ( talk) 22:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ BobRoberts14: I will be glad to copy the contents of the article and place it in a subpage for BitBytes ( talk · contribs) so that the data isn't lost (he is also free to do such, such as User:BitBytes/Woodridge football), but this isn't a case of the article being proposed for deletion because "it needs lots of work", it's a case of the entire topic failing a number of policies that we use to determine if such an article should even exist. As I said in the nomination, it's pretty well-written and well-sourced; that's not the issue at all. Problem is the overall topic isn't notable, so even paring down some of the details still won't make the article notable. The info in this article would be far better served on the team's own website (and if they don't have one, perhaps a project for BitBytes to create one). -- JonRidinger ( talk) 01:56, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ BobRoberts14: @ JonRidinger: Would it be a reasonable alternative to simply keep the introductory summary and then the tables with the records and awards? 22:38, 16 June 2019 (EST)
- Unfortunately, this is a case of the topic not being notable. It's not a case of the article simply being too detailed or too big, it's that the WHS football team (and just about every other high school football team) isn't notable, at least according to Wikipedia standards, so having a stand-alone article about it isn't appropriate. Again, I would definitely go ahead and copy the contents of the article into your userspace (you can create a subpage by clicking here) and store the article there. You could also start a website that the team can use or refer to. The info is very interesting for people into high school football, but "being interesting" doesn't mean it belongs on Wikipedia, at least in the article mainspace. I have my own high school football tables, tracking some of the local rivalries on my own userspace (see User:JonRidinger/RidersStatesmen, User:JonRidinger/KentRavenna, and User:JonRidinger/KentStow) -- JonRidinger ( talk) 17:31, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Honestly, I wish this level of effort was put into more notable topics. ― Susmuffin Talk 07:45, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- The author of this article certainly put in a lot of work and created just about as substantial an article as one can for a high school football team. However its definitely a Delete,
but try to merge what is relevant into the high school's article.Best, GPL93 ( talk) 19:01, 17 June 2019 (UTC)-
GPL93, if you review the
school article guidelines you will easily see there's nothing whatsoever here to merge.
John from Idegon (
talk) 19:08, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
John from Idegon Originally I thought maybe a list of its titles but when I dug a little deeper I realized Woodridge's listed championships are for the divisions of its conference, not the conference itself. Best,
GPL93 (
talk) 19:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Conference titles aren't even encyclopedic. For a poorly performing team like this, all we would list is its highest finish in the state tournament and even then, if another sport or activity at the school had a higher finish, we wouldn't even list that. John from Idegon ( talk) 19:22, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
John from Idegon Originally I thought maybe a list of its titles but when I dug a little deeper I realized Woodridge's listed championships are for the divisions of its conference, not the conference itself. Best,
GPL93 (
talk) 19:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
GPL93, if you review the
school article guidelines you will easily see there's nothing whatsoever here to merge.
John from Idegon (
talk) 19:08, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ JonRidinger: Just made a subpage for this content here. 17:04, 17 June 2019 (EST)
- Redirect to Woodridge High School. It's a possible search term, and redirects are WP:CHEAP, anyways. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 01:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete, as per Susmuffin. This is a 700-strong highschool, and Wikipedia really doesn't need to be cluttered with articles about individual sports programs for such schools. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 07:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per above. Can't WP:TROUT the editor who made this, they did a terrific job, but unfortunately this is more WP:FANCRUFT & WP:UNDUE than not. James-the-Charizard ( talk) 16:22, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. My personal opinion, an article on a high school sports team should only be considered if the school has history of being nationally ranked and a history of producing pros in the sport. Even high school teams that have had movies made about them ( T. C. Williams from Remember the Titans, T. L. Hanna from Radio just to name a couple of my personal favorites) don’t have pages.--Rockchalk 7 17 18:46, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Also, as a matter of editorial discretion, we apply greater scrutiny to topics involving athletic competition at the high school level. This practice is memorialized in part at WP:NHSPHSATH. There are approximately 37,000 high schools in the USA, most of which have football programs. IMO, opening the floodgates to Wikipedia articles on each such program is a bad idea. As Rockchalk and others have said, high school teams should only have articles if there is something truly exceptional. Cbl62 ( talk) 09:08, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete as high school football programs are not inherently notable. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 00:45, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- delete I applaud the enthusiasm of the article contributors! And I will admit that it is possible for a high school football team to achieve the level of notability required for inclusion in this encyclopedia. However, this team (with an underwhelming win-loss record) does not seem to be one of them, having failed so many separate notability measures. Try another wiki.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 03:12, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 23:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Woodridge High School Football
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Woodridge High School Football ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails both WP:N and WP:FANCRUFT. High school football teams are generally not notable and this does not appear to be an exception. While article is well-sourced, sources fall under routine coverage, especially for high school football teams. The team has not received coverage outside its immediate area, has 0 state championships, and an overall record well below .500. While a few details of the article could be incorporated into the Woodridge High School article, most of it isn't appropriate for that article either. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 20:18, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment: This is a sports article- an activity I have no desire to participate in or edit. I am basically an inclusionist and this appears to be doing no harm and is keeping a lot of people happy- lets say it is Notable in that it is a sports article that is well written and well referenced. What I will say is that if this were added to
Woodridge High School it would would be massively
WP:UNDUE, and it would have to be culled or spun off as a separate article.
ClemRutter (
talk) 20:58, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Comment: This article is still important enough to stay, since it is about a highschool football team, and there are so many less important articles. @
BitBytes: put dozens of hours into this article, since he is almost certainly a teacher or student/alumni of the school, and all his work does not deserve to just be deleted. Leave the article be, the school has about 700 students anyways, so there have to be some people from the school who read the article. I think this article needs a lot of work, but it does not deserve to be deleted. Instead of nominating it for deletion, why not help edit out all of the bias and non-neutral adjectives from the article, as well as copyedit it?
Bob Roberts 22:05, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete -
WP:FANCRUFT at its worst. Pretty sure there is a ton of
WP:OR also. Clear violation of
WP:NOT.
John from Idegon (
talk) 22:12, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Also note that I specifically oppose either merge or redirect. There is nothing whatsoever in this article that would be encyclopedic in the school's article and as Jon stated, we do not generally include articles on high school football teams. The very few we have (<10) are schools that are highly successful and have been for a very long time. Every article on high school football programs are about programs that have been the subject of full-length books. John from Idegon ( talk) 22:30, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - reasoning stated above.
Bob Roberts 22:14, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- BobRoberts14, you haven't stated any valid reason to keep above. Please read the instructions. John from Idegon ( talk) 22:23, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. Non notable, only local coverage as well as WP:SCHOOLCRUFT. Ajf773 ( talk) 22:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Wow, someone really put some work into this! Unfortunately there's no showing the school's program is anything but locally notable - lots of Akron Beacon Journal sources - and the level of detail is far beyond what we would have for an encyclopaedia article for even a college team. Fails WP:GNG since no non-routine sources exist. SportingFlyer T· C 22:43, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oh dear. I wonder how many sections of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions apply to the arguments given by ClemRutter and BobRoberts14. Here are just a few. WP:HARMLESS, WP:INTERESTING, WP:USEFUL, WP:OTHERSTUFF. None of the reasons given relate at all to Wikipedia policies. If either of those two people wishes to, they are free to propose that the notability guidelines be changed to include such criteria as "it appears to be doing no harm", "it is keeping a lot of people happy", "someone put hours of work into this", "there are so many less important articles", and so on and so on, but this discussion will be closed on the basis of what the guidelines actually say, and NOT ONE of the reasons given for keeping has anything to do with those guidelines. That means that if the person who closes the discussion correctly follows policy they will not take them into account at all. Yhto Plwhm ( talk) 22:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no evidence that this subject satisfies any of the notability guidelines, which is unsurprising, as high school sports teams scarcely ever do. Yhto Plwhm ( talk) 22:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ BobRoberts14: I will be glad to copy the contents of the article and place it in a subpage for BitBytes ( talk · contribs) so that the data isn't lost (he is also free to do such, such as User:BitBytes/Woodridge football), but this isn't a case of the article being proposed for deletion because "it needs lots of work", it's a case of the entire topic failing a number of policies that we use to determine if such an article should even exist. As I said in the nomination, it's pretty well-written and well-sourced; that's not the issue at all. Problem is the overall topic isn't notable, so even paring down some of the details still won't make the article notable. The info in this article would be far better served on the team's own website (and if they don't have one, perhaps a project for BitBytes to create one). -- JonRidinger ( talk) 01:56, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ BobRoberts14: @ JonRidinger: Would it be a reasonable alternative to simply keep the introductory summary and then the tables with the records and awards? 22:38, 16 June 2019 (EST)
- Unfortunately, this is a case of the topic not being notable. It's not a case of the article simply being too detailed or too big, it's that the WHS football team (and just about every other high school football team) isn't notable, at least according to Wikipedia standards, so having a stand-alone article about it isn't appropriate. Again, I would definitely go ahead and copy the contents of the article into your userspace (you can create a subpage by clicking here) and store the article there. You could also start a website that the team can use or refer to. The info is very interesting for people into high school football, but "being interesting" doesn't mean it belongs on Wikipedia, at least in the article mainspace. I have my own high school football tables, tracking some of the local rivalries on my own userspace (see User:JonRidinger/RidersStatesmen, User:JonRidinger/KentRavenna, and User:JonRidinger/KentStow) -- JonRidinger ( talk) 17:31, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Honestly, I wish this level of effort was put into more notable topics. ― Susmuffin Talk 07:45, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- The author of this article certainly put in a lot of work and created just about as substantial an article as one can for a high school football team. However its definitely a Delete,
but try to merge what is relevant into the high school's article.Best, GPL93 ( talk) 19:01, 17 June 2019 (UTC)-
GPL93, if you review the
school article guidelines you will easily see there's nothing whatsoever here to merge.
John from Idegon (
talk) 19:08, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
John from Idegon Originally I thought maybe a list of its titles but when I dug a little deeper I realized Woodridge's listed championships are for the divisions of its conference, not the conference itself. Best,
GPL93 (
talk) 19:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Conference titles aren't even encyclopedic. For a poorly performing team like this, all we would list is its highest finish in the state tournament and even then, if another sport or activity at the school had a higher finish, we wouldn't even list that. John from Idegon ( talk) 19:22, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
John from Idegon Originally I thought maybe a list of its titles but when I dug a little deeper I realized Woodridge's listed championships are for the divisions of its conference, not the conference itself. Best,
GPL93 (
talk) 19:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
-
GPL93, if you review the
school article guidelines you will easily see there's nothing whatsoever here to merge.
John from Idegon (
talk) 19:08, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Comment @ JonRidinger: Just made a subpage for this content here. 17:04, 17 June 2019 (EST)
- Redirect to Woodridge High School. It's a possible search term, and redirects are WP:CHEAP, anyways. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 01:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete, as per Susmuffin. This is a 700-strong highschool, and Wikipedia really doesn't need to be cluttered with articles about individual sports programs for such schools. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 07:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per above. Can't WP:TROUT the editor who made this, they did a terrific job, but unfortunately this is more WP:FANCRUFT & WP:UNDUE than not. James-the-Charizard ( talk) 16:22, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. My personal opinion, an article on a high school sports team should only be considered if the school has history of being nationally ranked and a history of producing pros in the sport. Even high school teams that have had movies made about them ( T. C. Williams from Remember the Titans, T. L. Hanna from Radio just to name a couple of my personal favorites) don’t have pages.--Rockchalk 7 17 18:46, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Also, as a matter of editorial discretion, we apply greater scrutiny to topics involving athletic competition at the high school level. This practice is memorialized in part at WP:NHSPHSATH. There are approximately 37,000 high schools in the USA, most of which have football programs. IMO, opening the floodgates to Wikipedia articles on each such program is a bad idea. As Rockchalk and others have said, high school teams should only have articles if there is something truly exceptional. Cbl62 ( talk) 09:08, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete as high school football programs are not inherently notable. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 00:45, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- delete I applaud the enthusiasm of the article contributors! And I will admit that it is possible for a high school football team to achieve the level of notability required for inclusion in this encyclopedia. However, this team (with an underwhelming win-loss record) does not seem to be one of them, having failed so many separate notability measures. Try another wiki.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 03:12, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.