- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus to keep per WP:NPLACE. Article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion ( WP:HEY). (non-admin closure) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 02:56, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
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- Villieria ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of notability under GNG or SNG. Clearly fails GNG. Regarding SNG, there is no evidence (including in a search I made) that it meets the SNG. Appears to be just a census tract and is actually Pretoria North8000 ( talk) 14:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- When you said "is actually Pretoria", I think you meant to say "is actually a suburb of Pretoria".
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
17:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- If I could find anything that says that it is a suburb of Pretoria (I.E. is actually a village/town etc. ) I would not have nominated. I meant that it appears to be IN/ a part of Pretoria, not a suburb of it. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
17:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- A "suburb" is a section of a town/city here. It is not a town itself. Saying "it is a suburb of Pretoria" & "it is a part of Pretoria" is the same thing here. Sincerely,
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
19:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe we are using different meanings of "suburb". I meant "suburb" in the typical USA context, which is a separate town/village with it's own government and which is not legally a part of the city which it is a suburb to. And to say that from the research I did, it appears that Villieria is not that....that it is legally a part of the city of Pretoria. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The article Suburb#Australia, New_Zealand,_and South_Africa covers the meaning of the term in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and suburbs would generally meet the criteria in WP:NPLACE in each of those countries. Park3r ( talk) 10:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe we are using different meanings of "suburb". I meant "suburb" in the typical USA context, which is a separate town/village with it's own government and which is not legally a part of the city which it is a suburb to. And to say that from the research I did, it appears that Villieria is not that....that it is legally a part of the city of Pretoria. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- A "suburb" is a section of a town/city here. It is not a town itself. Saying "it is a suburb of Pretoria" & "it is a part of Pretoria" is the same thing here. Sincerely,
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
19:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- If I could find anything that says that it is a suburb of Pretoria (I.E. is actually a village/town etc. ) I would not have nominated. I meant that it appears to be IN/ a part of Pretoria, not a suburb of it. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
17:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- delete It's a neighborhood in NE Pretoria, if you believe GMaps (the coords in the article go to dead center Pretoria). I couldn't find anything except real estate ads and clickbait, or routine listings. Mangoe ( talk) 18:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Keep per WP:NPLACE. It is a a populated, legally recognized place, and a suburb of Pretoria as described in multiple WP:RS [1] [2] [3] [4], with a population of 14,000 people in the 2011 census [5]. Lots of references on Google Books, it has a primary school called Laerskool Villieria (Villieria Primary School) [6]. It has a police station called the Villieria Police Station [7] [8] Google Maps clearly shows the place exists with defined boundaries, doesn't point to the "dead Centre Pretoria", and Google Street View shows the school in the suburb [9]. There are a numerous references to the place in legal (Government Gazette) and other publications in Google Books. I'm quite surprised that a WP:BEFORE didn't turn any of this up. Here's a street sign that shows the entrance to the suburb on Google Street View [10] Park3r ( talk) 10:03, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - In South Africa, a "suburb" is a section of a town or city (it is not a town or city itself) & since this is a South African Article, this is the definition we use here, as stated in my above reply to the nominator. As Park3r has stated above, Villieria is indeed one of the many suburbs that make up the city of Pretoria & it is a legally recognized place. I see the article has also been improved a lot since this AFD was announced & taking that into account, I vote for it to stay on Wikipedia.
- Keep appears to have been significnatly WP:HEYed since this AfD was started, easily passes GNG, nice work by Uncle G. SportingFlyer T· C 19:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Wow, what a lot of good work! With that amount of great sourced content, I'm in favor of keep whether it be via wp:IAR or practical edge case or GNG or ngeo or whatever. I'm not withdrawing the nomination, I would still like this to be decided. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:06, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- You can't withdraw it since there's still a delete !vote, but why wouldn't you if you had the chance? SportingFlyer T· C 22:28, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus to keep per WP:NPLACE. Article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion ( WP:HEY). (non-admin closure) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 02:56, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Villieria ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of notability under GNG or SNG. Clearly fails GNG. Regarding SNG, there is no evidence (including in a search I made) that it meets the SNG. Appears to be just a census tract and is actually Pretoria North8000 ( talk) 14:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- When you said "is actually Pretoria", I think you meant to say "is actually a suburb of Pretoria".
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
17:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- If I could find anything that says that it is a suburb of Pretoria (I.E. is actually a village/town etc. ) I would not have nominated. I meant that it appears to be IN/ a part of Pretoria, not a suburb of it. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
17:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- A "suburb" is a section of a town/city here. It is not a town itself. Saying "it is a suburb of Pretoria" & "it is a part of Pretoria" is the same thing here. Sincerely,
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
19:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe we are using different meanings of "suburb". I meant "suburb" in the typical USA context, which is a separate town/village with it's own government and which is not legally a part of the city which it is a suburb to. And to say that from the research I did, it appears that Villieria is not that....that it is legally a part of the city of Pretoria. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The article Suburb#Australia, New_Zealand,_and South_Africa covers the meaning of the term in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and suburbs would generally meet the criteria in WP:NPLACE in each of those countries. Park3r ( talk) 10:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe we are using different meanings of "suburb". I meant "suburb" in the typical USA context, which is a separate town/village with it's own government and which is not legally a part of the city which it is a suburb to. And to say that from the research I did, it appears that Villieria is not that....that it is legally a part of the city of Pretoria. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- A "suburb" is a section of a town/city here. It is not a town itself. Saying "it is a suburb of Pretoria" & "it is a part of Pretoria" is the same thing here. Sincerely,
GeographicAccountant (
talk)
19:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- If I could find anything that says that it is a suburb of Pretoria (I.E. is actually a village/town etc. ) I would not have nominated. I meant that it appears to be IN/ a part of Pretoria, not a suburb of it. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
17:44, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- delete It's a neighborhood in NE Pretoria, if you believe GMaps (the coords in the article go to dead center Pretoria). I couldn't find anything except real estate ads and clickbait, or routine listings. Mangoe ( talk) 18:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Keep per WP:NPLACE. It is a a populated, legally recognized place, and a suburb of Pretoria as described in multiple WP:RS [1] [2] [3] [4], with a population of 14,000 people in the 2011 census [5]. Lots of references on Google Books, it has a primary school called Laerskool Villieria (Villieria Primary School) [6]. It has a police station called the Villieria Police Station [7] [8] Google Maps clearly shows the place exists with defined boundaries, doesn't point to the "dead Centre Pretoria", and Google Street View shows the school in the suburb [9]. There are a numerous references to the place in legal (Government Gazette) and other publications in Google Books. I'm quite surprised that a WP:BEFORE didn't turn any of this up. Here's a street sign that shows the entrance to the suburb on Google Street View [10] Park3r ( talk) 10:03, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - In South Africa, a "suburb" is a section of a town or city (it is not a town or city itself) & since this is a South African Article, this is the definition we use here, as stated in my above reply to the nominator. As Park3r has stated above, Villieria is indeed one of the many suburbs that make up the city of Pretoria & it is a legally recognized place. I see the article has also been improved a lot since this AFD was announced & taking that into account, I vote for it to stay on Wikipedia.
- Keep appears to have been significnatly WP:HEYed since this AfD was started, easily passes GNG, nice work by Uncle G. SportingFlyer T· C 19:32, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Wow, what a lot of good work! With that amount of great sourced content, I'm in favor of keep whether it be via wp:IAR or practical edge case or GNG or ngeo or whatever. I'm not withdrawing the nomination, I would still like this to be decided. Sincerely, North8000 (
talk)
21:06, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- You can't withdraw it since there's still a delete !vote, but why wouldn't you if you had the chance? SportingFlyer T· C 22:28, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.