- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Clear consensus. (non-admin closure) GeoffreyT2000 ( talk, contribs) 00:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha Tres ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable segment of a wrestling show. Was returned from a redirect with the comment, "as notable as Uno and Dos". Which I actually agree with. However, NONE of them are notable in and of themselves. Give me 5 minutes, and all 3 will be included in this AfD. While the show is notable, breaking these three out is completely unnecessary. All 3 fail WP:GNG, and all sourcing is more focused on the series, rather than these episodes. Onel5969 TT me 02:21, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha Dos ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Onel5969 TT me 02:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha 1 ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Onel5969 TT me 02:23, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 04:39, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. Mark the train Discuss 06:06, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep there are plenty of independent third party reliable sources covering these episodes, they may not be greatly refrenced but notability is not about sources presented but coverage that is out there. This is no different than an article on an episode of the Simpsons or another show where specific episodes are broken out. If it was not the Ultima Lucha season finale shows I would agree with deleting them. MPJ -DK 14:35, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Delete: I am not accusing MPJ-DK of lying, however the burden of proof lies with the editor including content for verifiability purposes. The argument that if the subjects weren't part of a particular series isn't too good either as notability isn't inherited. I'm just not seeing the sources, either via the article or my own searches. DrStrauss talk 17:03, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Well at least you are not accusing me of lying so that is a good thing. There is plenty of coverage by sources that are listed as reliable undet the pro wrestling project WP:PW so i disagree with your assessment of the available sources, without prejudice for said assessments of course. I agree with reliable sources not currently being well used in the articles though, but that is not a deletion argument. Not sure what you are trying to imply I said beyond that. I said there are some LU episodes I don't think are that notable and should not have stand alone articles - these aren't, so i don't get the "not inherited" comment at all?? MPJ -DK 18:30, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Side note - you provided a link to "prove it" in regards to notability. But that relates to Verifiabiliy. In other words "prove that the content is true", which is a different argument and not really supporting the "notability" issue that lead to this AFD. MPJ -DK 18:33, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Can you show me the sources? DrStrauss talk 20:58, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 04:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 04:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ask and ye shall receive 4280 Google "Ultima Lucha" hits on sites deemed reliable sources by the pro wrestling project, you can check it against the project's Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Sources page. MPJ -DK 18:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Received. Still sparse on
independent, in-depth coverage by reliable sources. Ghits aren't everything.
DrStrauss
talk
22:04, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- So now that we have moved thr point of "well I could not find any" the point becomes "they are not in depth"? I am not about to trawl through all the hits to find the number of articles that are ONLY about the various Ultima Luchas, wouldn't change your mind so I am just going to agree to disagree with you that this does not fall under the definition of "significant", i believe it does. MPJ -DK 16:50, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
- Received. Still sparse on
independent, in-depth coverage by reliable sources. Ghits aren't everything.
DrStrauss
talk
22:04, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Similar to MPJ, Ultima Lucha is the most important event of Lucha Underground. Also, there is a lot of reliable sources covering the subject. -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 08:39, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 03:24, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 03:24, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep MPJ-DK's link above is enough to prove this is received continually coverage over time, enough to pass WP:GNG. LM2000 ( talk) 08:31, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Clear consensus. (non-admin closure) GeoffreyT2000 ( talk, contribs) 00:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha Tres ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable segment of a wrestling show. Was returned from a redirect with the comment, "as notable as Uno and Dos". Which I actually agree with. However, NONE of them are notable in and of themselves. Give me 5 minutes, and all 3 will be included in this AfD. While the show is notable, breaking these three out is completely unnecessary. All 3 fail WP:GNG, and all sourcing is more focused on the series, rather than these episodes. Onel5969 TT me 02:21, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha Dos ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Onel5969 TT me 02:22, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ultima Lucha 1 ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Onel5969 TT me 02:23, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. -- Cameron11598 (Talk) 04:39, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. Mark the train Discuss 06:06, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep there are plenty of independent third party reliable sources covering these episodes, they may not be greatly refrenced but notability is not about sources presented but coverage that is out there. This is no different than an article on an episode of the Simpsons or another show where specific episodes are broken out. If it was not the Ultima Lucha season finale shows I would agree with deleting them. MPJ -DK 14:35, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Delete: I am not accusing MPJ-DK of lying, however the burden of proof lies with the editor including content for verifiability purposes. The argument that if the subjects weren't part of a particular series isn't too good either as notability isn't inherited. I'm just not seeing the sources, either via the article or my own searches. DrStrauss talk 17:03, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Well at least you are not accusing me of lying so that is a good thing. There is plenty of coverage by sources that are listed as reliable undet the pro wrestling project WP:PW so i disagree with your assessment of the available sources, without prejudice for said assessments of course. I agree with reliable sources not currently being well used in the articles though, but that is not a deletion argument. Not sure what you are trying to imply I said beyond that. I said there are some LU episodes I don't think are that notable and should not have stand alone articles - these aren't, so i don't get the "not inherited" comment at all?? MPJ -DK 18:30, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Side note - you provided a link to "prove it" in regards to notability. But that relates to Verifiabiliy. In other words "prove that the content is true", which is a different argument and not really supporting the "notability" issue that lead to this AFD. MPJ -DK 18:33, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Can you show me the sources? DrStrauss talk 20:58, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 04:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 04:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Ask and ye shall receive 4280 Google "Ultima Lucha" hits on sites deemed reliable sources by the pro wrestling project, you can check it against the project's Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Sources page. MPJ -DK 18:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Received. Still sparse on
independent, in-depth coverage by reliable sources. Ghits aren't everything.
DrStrauss
talk
22:04, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- So now that we have moved thr point of "well I could not find any" the point becomes "they are not in depth"? I am not about to trawl through all the hits to find the number of articles that are ONLY about the various Ultima Luchas, wouldn't change your mind so I am just going to agree to disagree with you that this does not fall under the definition of "significant", i believe it does. MPJ -DK 16:50, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
- Received. Still sparse on
independent, in-depth coverage by reliable sources. Ghits aren't everything.
DrStrauss
talk
22:04, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Similar to MPJ, Ultima Lucha is the most important event of Lucha Underground. Also, there is a lot of reliable sources covering the subject. -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 08:39, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 03:24, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c ) ( m) 03:24, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
- Keep MPJ-DK's link above is enough to prove this is received continually coverage over time, enough to pass WP:GNG. LM2000 ( talk) 08:31, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.