The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was No consensus. There is no consensus for any particular solution after extended time for discussion, and a reasonable argument for the subject having at some point been a distinct geographical location.
BD2412T04:00, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
No evidence of notability. Cited only to "Ordnance Survey get-a-map SW4073635469" but WP:NGEO says "This guideline specifically excludes maps and census tables from consideration when establishing topic notability, because these sources often establish little except the existence of the subject." Apparently you can
stay there on vacation but that's not notable.
Reywas92Talk17:41, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
As Rusf10 notes, hamlet is a vague term that can just be a synonym for a homestead or farm, home to just a landowner and workers. "Legal recognition" is also vague but this isn't a town or village as geoland implies – I think a good
WP:PRESERVE would be a merge to the civil parish of
Morvah that it's in.
Reywas92Talk19:48, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
DeleteFarms certainly do not auto-pass
WP:GEOLAND. Even if it was a hamlet as claimed, this does not change anything as it would fall under "Populated places without legal recognition" which do not get auto-notability either. Also according to
Hamlet (place), a hamlet in the UK could be nothing more than a house.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
18:24, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Morvah. It's mentioned
as a hamlet back in 1745. As such, I wouldn't classify this as a populated place under GEOLAND#1, but an informal populated place under GEOLAND#2. As such, there is not enough known info to meet GNG or develop and article. It should be mentioned in the article on the recognized populated place in which it is located.
MB02:22, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Examples of "Populated places without legal recognition" are given as "subdivisions, business parks, housing developments, informal regions of a state, unofficial neighborhoods", which clearly is not intended to encompass discrete named settlements with hundreds of years of history of occupation.----
Pontificalibus07:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I equate "hamlet" with "informal region"; legally recognized means some formal legal standing, like having a local administration (government). A village usually has a governing body. But a hamlet is just a small grouping of houses.
MB20:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That's an unusual interpretation of "legally recognized". Normally it means "recognized in law", the test being a notional court case where a judge is asked whether this is a populated place in its own right, or merely a part of some other place. If the GEOLAND guidelines intended that notability required a local administration then they would state that (I would note that with the advent of
unitary authorities of England there are even large cities in England that lack their own administration). Hamlets have long been recognised in
common law as populated places in their own right, for example
here where unlike villages they are not required to repair highways.---
Pontificalibus07:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep - It was and is an actual and distinctive population population center and as such this falls under GEOLAND. That it's since been technically absorbed into the modern municipality of Movrah doesn't negate that.
Oakshade (
talk)
02:37, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep Seems pretty clear from the sources and a quick search on Google Books that this is a place that is distinct from Morvah. Iffy on a merge, but absolutely not a delete.
SportingFlyerT·C13:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The OS classifies it as a settlement but the consensus appears that being an OS settlement isn't enough so if its not deemed notable then redirecting to Morvah seems reasonable as its CP. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
11:00, 10 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Morvah. What I'm working with is in
WP:GEOLAND: "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low." Key word being legally recognized. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a case for legal recognition, which means it falls under
WP:GNG - and I'm afraid I'm not seeing enough to allow the article to stand on its own, but the content seems to be mergable into the root article for Morvah. --
Dennis The Tiger (
Rawr and
stuff)
21:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was No consensus. There is no consensus for any particular solution after extended time for discussion, and a reasonable argument for the subject having at some point been a distinct geographical location.
BD2412T04:00, 25 January 2020 (UTC)reply
No evidence of notability. Cited only to "Ordnance Survey get-a-map SW4073635469" but WP:NGEO says "This guideline specifically excludes maps and census tables from consideration when establishing topic notability, because these sources often establish little except the existence of the subject." Apparently you can
stay there on vacation but that's not notable.
Reywas92Talk17:41, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
As Rusf10 notes, hamlet is a vague term that can just be a synonym for a homestead or farm, home to just a landowner and workers. "Legal recognition" is also vague but this isn't a town or village as geoland implies – I think a good
WP:PRESERVE would be a merge to the civil parish of
Morvah that it's in.
Reywas92Talk19:48, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
DeleteFarms certainly do not auto-pass
WP:GEOLAND. Even if it was a hamlet as claimed, this does not change anything as it would fall under "Populated places without legal recognition" which do not get auto-notability either. Also according to
Hamlet (place), a hamlet in the UK could be nothing more than a house.--
Rusf10 (
talk)
18:24, 3 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge to
Morvah. It's mentioned
as a hamlet back in 1745. As such, I wouldn't classify this as a populated place under GEOLAND#1, but an informal populated place under GEOLAND#2. As such, there is not enough known info to meet GNG or develop and article. It should be mentioned in the article on the recognized populated place in which it is located.
MB02:22, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Examples of "Populated places without legal recognition" are given as "subdivisions, business parks, housing developments, informal regions of a state, unofficial neighborhoods", which clearly is not intended to encompass discrete named settlements with hundreds of years of history of occupation.----
Pontificalibus07:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
I equate "hamlet" with "informal region"; legally recognized means some formal legal standing, like having a local administration (government). A village usually has a governing body. But a hamlet is just a small grouping of houses.
MB20:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)reply
That's an unusual interpretation of "legally recognized". Normally it means "recognized in law", the test being a notional court case where a judge is asked whether this is a populated place in its own right, or merely a part of some other place. If the GEOLAND guidelines intended that notability required a local administration then they would state that (I would note that with the advent of
unitary authorities of England there are even large cities in England that lack their own administration). Hamlets have long been recognised in
common law as populated places in their own right, for example
here where unlike villages they are not required to repair highways.---
Pontificalibus07:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep - It was and is an actual and distinctive population population center and as such this falls under GEOLAND. That it's since been technically absorbed into the modern municipality of Movrah doesn't negate that.
Oakshade (
talk)
02:37, 5 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep Seems pretty clear from the sources and a quick search on Google Books that this is a place that is distinct from Morvah. Iffy on a merge, but absolutely not a delete.
SportingFlyerT·C13:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The OS classifies it as a settlement but the consensus appears that being an OS settlement isn't enough so if its not deemed notable then redirecting to Morvah seems reasonable as its CP. Crouch, Swale (
talk)
11:00, 10 January 2020 (UTC)reply
Merge and redirect to
Morvah. What I'm working with is in
WP:GEOLAND: "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low." Key word being legally recognized. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a case for legal recognition, which means it falls under
WP:GNG - and I'm afraid I'm not seeing enough to allow the article to stand on its own, but the content seems to be mergable into the root article for Morvah. --
Dennis The Tiger (
Rawr and
stuff)
21:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.