- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Apparent hoax. The creator's other articles should be scrutinized as well. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 14:02, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Thatcher Keats
- Thatcher Keats ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
fails WP:ARTIST, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED from his father. I don't believe his book passes helps him pass WP:ARTIST either. Not seeing reliable source coverage for this subject, just his own website, some blogs, etc. And yes, one picture that he took appeared in the New York Times, but it does not seem that he is a regular contributor. Rusf10 ( talk) 23:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Mysterious. The article mentions Rosalind Solomon; and as her work interests me, this was the first (minor) aspect of the article that I examined. What I found, or didn't, surprised me. The article currently tells us: For several years in the mid 1980s, he assisted Rosalind Solomon with film development and printing. He also helped Solomon with her gear as she photographed in Washington Square Park and photographed people with AIDS. It presents as a reference "{{cite web|url=http://www.rosalindsolomon.com/biography.htm |title=Rosalind Solomon Bio |publisher=Rosalindsolomon.com |accessdate=January 21, 2012}}". Here is that web page as archived by the Wayback Machine just eight days earlier (13 January 2012). Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention within it of "thatcher" or of "keats". This factoid goes back to the very first version of the article (2 December 2010), which told readers: In 1983 he also worked with Arthur Tress, assisting him on his Hospital series,[reference] and for several years in the mid 80's with Rosalind Solomon on her work about AIDS, a relationship that continues today. The reference for the second half of that was "[http://www.rosalindsolomon.com/biography.htm Rosalind Solomon Bio]". I haven't examined the reference for the first half of that sentence and don't propose to do so (life's too short); but here and here are the web page of the second reference, as archived by the Wayback Machine on 21 July 2010 and 15 July 2011 respectively. Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention of "thatcher" or of "keats" in either of these archived versions. The assertion that Keats helped Solomon may be true, but the "reference" for it -- both as supplied by Jgrahame (first version of the article) and as confirmed ( here) by Ohconfucius -- appears to be fictional. (Or have I misunderstood something? I'd be most interested in comments on this by Jgrahame and Ohconfucius.) -- Hoary ( talk) 09:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- More weirdness. I find that this article exerts a horrible fascination. OK, I give in: let's continue, and consider Keats' relationship with Arthur Tress, as mentioned above. The reader is told: In 1983 he also worked with Arthur Tress, assisting him on his Hospital series; and this cites as a source {{cite web|url=http://www.corcoran.org/exhibitions/previous_results.asp?Exhib_ID=44 |title=Corcoran Gallery of Art |publisher=Corcoran.org |accessdate=January 21, 2012}}. Another page that's now dead, but it lives on at the Wayback Machine. On 21 January 2012, Ohconfucius stated that it was retrieved on 21 January 2012. Here is what Wayback retrieved on 7 December 2011. Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention within it of "thatcher" or of "keats". ¶ Perhaps Jgrahame's idea of sourcing is (1) to find something on the web that mentions at least one entity of the proposition that's being sourced, and (2) to add this in order to impart a certain aura of dignity to the paragraph in question. But in what sense Ohconfucius could have confirmed all this, I don't know. ¶ Regardless of what they actually say, a lot of the "references" are to the biographee. Among the others, neither of the two I checked says what it's presented as saying. I therefore can't trust any of this stuff. Therefore, delete. (Pity, because the cover of one of his books looks interesting.) -- Hoary ( talk) 12:51, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Hoary: You certainly raise a lot of legitimate issues with the article. There is only two possibilities, either the information is false or it is original research. And I agree that a number of the sources are completely irrelevant as if they were added to the article to make it look like there was more sourcing than actually exists.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 02:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Rusf10:, I've a hunch that the "references" provided for the same article creator's
Rose Marasco (
first edit),
Cey Adams (
first edit),
Marissa Roth (
first edit),
Lori Nix (
first edit),
John G. Zimmerman (
first edit),
Janette Beckman (
first edit) and
Michael Putland (
first edit) should also be scrutinized. --
Hoary (
talk) 04:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @ Hoary:- I went ahead and nominated Marissa Roth for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marissa Roth. The others seem to pass the notability guidelines for one reason or another, but need a ton of cleanup.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Rusf10:, I've a hunch that the "references" provided for the same article creator's
Rose Marasco (
first edit),
Cey Adams (
first edit),
Marissa Roth (
first edit),
Lori Nix (
first edit),
John G. Zimmerman (
first edit),
Janette Beckman (
first edit) and
Michael Putland (
first edit) should also be scrutinized. --
Hoary (
talk) 04:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Hoary: You certainly raise a lot of legitimate issues with the article. There is only two possibilities, either the information is false or it is original research. And I agree that a number of the sources are completely irrelevant as if they were added to the article to make it look like there was more sourcing than actually exists.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 02:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Apparent hoax. The creator's other articles should be scrutinized as well. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 14:02, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Thatcher Keats
- Thatcher Keats ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
fails WP:ARTIST, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED from his father. I don't believe his book passes helps him pass WP:ARTIST either. Not seeing reliable source coverage for this subject, just his own website, some blogs, etc. And yes, one picture that he took appeared in the New York Times, but it does not seem that he is a regular contributor. Rusf10 ( talk) 23:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga ( talk • mail) 02:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- Mysterious. The article mentions Rosalind Solomon; and as her work interests me, this was the first (minor) aspect of the article that I examined. What I found, or didn't, surprised me. The article currently tells us: For several years in the mid 1980s, he assisted Rosalind Solomon with film development and printing. He also helped Solomon with her gear as she photographed in Washington Square Park and photographed people with AIDS. It presents as a reference "{{cite web|url=http://www.rosalindsolomon.com/biography.htm |title=Rosalind Solomon Bio |publisher=Rosalindsolomon.com |accessdate=January 21, 2012}}". Here is that web page as archived by the Wayback Machine just eight days earlier (13 January 2012). Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention within it of "thatcher" or of "keats". This factoid goes back to the very first version of the article (2 December 2010), which told readers: In 1983 he also worked with Arthur Tress, assisting him on his Hospital series,[reference] and for several years in the mid 80's with Rosalind Solomon on her work about AIDS, a relationship that continues today. The reference for the second half of that was "[http://www.rosalindsolomon.com/biography.htm Rosalind Solomon Bio]". I haven't examined the reference for the first half of that sentence and don't propose to do so (life's too short); but here and here are the web page of the second reference, as archived by the Wayback Machine on 21 July 2010 and 15 July 2011 respectively. Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention of "thatcher" or of "keats" in either of these archived versions. The assertion that Keats helped Solomon may be true, but the "reference" for it -- both as supplied by Jgrahame (first version of the article) and as confirmed ( here) by Ohconfucius -- appears to be fictional. (Or have I misunderstood something? I'd be most interested in comments on this by Jgrahame and Ohconfucius.) -- Hoary ( talk) 09:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- More weirdness. I find that this article exerts a horrible fascination. OK, I give in: let's continue, and consider Keats' relationship with Arthur Tress, as mentioned above. The reader is told: In 1983 he also worked with Arthur Tress, assisting him on his Hospital series; and this cites as a source {{cite web|url=http://www.corcoran.org/exhibitions/previous_results.asp?Exhib_ID=44 |title=Corcoran Gallery of Art |publisher=Corcoran.org |accessdate=January 21, 2012}}. Another page that's now dead, but it lives on at the Wayback Machine. On 21 January 2012, Ohconfucius stated that it was retrieved on 21 January 2012. Here is what Wayback retrieved on 7 December 2011. Ctrl-F in my browser shows no mention within it of "thatcher" or of "keats". ¶ Perhaps Jgrahame's idea of sourcing is (1) to find something on the web that mentions at least one entity of the proposition that's being sourced, and (2) to add this in order to impart a certain aura of dignity to the paragraph in question. But in what sense Ohconfucius could have confirmed all this, I don't know. ¶ Regardless of what they actually say, a lot of the "references" are to the biographee. Among the others, neither of the two I checked says what it's presented as saying. I therefore can't trust any of this stuff. Therefore, delete. (Pity, because the cover of one of his books looks interesting.) -- Hoary ( talk) 12:51, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Hoary: You certainly raise a lot of legitimate issues with the article. There is only two possibilities, either the information is false or it is original research. And I agree that a number of the sources are completely irrelevant as if they were added to the article to make it look like there was more sourcing than actually exists.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 02:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Rusf10:, I've a hunch that the "references" provided for the same article creator's
Rose Marasco (
first edit),
Cey Adams (
first edit),
Marissa Roth (
first edit),
Lori Nix (
first edit),
John G. Zimmerman (
first edit),
Janette Beckman (
first edit) and
Michael Putland (
first edit) should also be scrutinized. --
Hoary (
talk) 04:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @ Hoary:- I went ahead and nominated Marissa Roth for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marissa Roth. The others seem to pass the notability guidelines for one reason or another, but need a ton of cleanup.-- Rusf10 ( talk) 05:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Rusf10:, I've a hunch that the "references" provided for the same article creator's
Rose Marasco (
first edit),
Cey Adams (
first edit),
Marissa Roth (
first edit),
Lori Nix (
first edit),
John G. Zimmerman (
first edit),
Janette Beckman (
first edit) and
Michael Putland (
first edit) should also be scrutinized. --
Hoary (
talk) 04:12, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- @
Hoary: You certainly raise a lot of legitimate issues with the article. There is only two possibilities, either the information is false or it is original research. And I agree that a number of the sources are completely irrelevant as if they were added to the article to make it look like there was more sourcing than actually exists.--
Rusf10 (
talk) 02:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.