- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. The nom hasn't even bothered to search....So closing as SK (non-admin closure) – Davey2010 Talk 01:30, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Sydney Cope Morgan
- Sydney Cope Morgan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Four times failed parliamentary candidate. Uhooep ( talk) 03:49, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Vipinhari || talk 06:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Vipinhari || talk 06:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep: Entry in Who's Who (UK). Awarded the MBE. Graemp ( talk) 07:32, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Obituary in The Times = notable. Andrew D. ( talk) 18:16, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete. There is a mention here. He wrote a book. But my open-sweep of news found not much here plus I could not find the obituary (hidden behind a paywall?).-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The Times obituary is not hidden behind a pay wall but freely accessible to anyone with a freely available UK library card, as is also the case with anyone wanting to access Who's Who. Just to clarify for our American friend
Tomwsulcer, he passes
WP:ANYBIO#1 "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor" for being awarded the
MBE. He also passes
WP:LAWYERS "A lawyer who has received an appointment that indicates pre-eminence within the profession, such as Queen's Counsel shall be treated in the same manner as a person who satisfies criteria 1 of WP:ANYBIO" for being appointed as a
Queen's Counsel. Unfortunately, Tomwsulcer's intervention means that we don't have a consensus in this AfD discussion, unless he chooses to withdraw his vote to delete.
Graemp (
talk) 06:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply. Well, supposing there is an obituary notice in The Times, there are still some problems here. One of my tests -- admittedly unofficial -- is pageviews, and usually articles with substantial pageviews, such as 10+ per day, don't get deleted (from my past experience). This article has
1 pageview per day, although I suppose we could account for that because the subject's prime years were in the past century, before the advent of Internet and easily-checkable sources. Next problem: please read the first sentence of the current (16 March 2016) lede paragraph : Sydney Cope Morgan MBE QC (25 October 1887 – 14 October 1967), was a British barrister and Liberal Party politician. Then, the article goes straight into his early years, which (in my view) gives
too much information about his trying to win a seat in Parliament, coming close, but no cigar. So, that's it? What did he do? What is he famous for? What did he accomplish? Or to put it in Wikipedia's terms, What is he
notable for? Is he notable for simply being a barrister? Hmmmmm? The British media chose not to write about him because they didn't consider him notable. If he did in fact receive an award, what did he do to earn that award? That's what I'd like to know. Now, if you can find
sources indicating otherwise, I'll be glad to change my vote, although I think the article needs a rewrite and especially trimming down. And my being 'American' has nothing to do with this, I'll axe or rescue articles based on the subject's notability not their nationality.--11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply: I agree, you being American does have nothing to do with this, but you being unable to check references from key sources is. If I was unable to do this basic thing, I'd probably butt out of any AfD. Check out the logo top left - an incomplete Globe; we don't delete articles for being incomplete, if we did then there would be a heck of a lot of stubs that would need to be deleted. The article defines his notability and is properly sourced with in-line citations. He may not pass
Tomwsulcer notability criteria but fortunately he meets Wikipedia's notability criteria.
Graemp (
talk) 13:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- I can be persuaded if you show sources.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:04, 16 March 2016 (UTC) Also according to the paragraph above ANYBIO it says People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards ... meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:08, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply: I agree, you being American does have nothing to do with this, but you being unable to check references from key sources is. If I was unable to do this basic thing, I'd probably butt out of any AfD. Check out the logo top left - an incomplete Globe; we don't delete articles for being incomplete, if we did then there would be a heck of a lot of stubs that would need to be deleted. The article defines his notability and is properly sourced with in-line citations. He may not pass
Tomwsulcer notability criteria but fortunately he meets Wikipedia's notability criteria.
Graemp (
talk) 13:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply. Well, supposing there is an obituary notice in The Times, there are still some problems here. One of my tests -- admittedly unofficial -- is pageviews, and usually articles with substantial pageviews, such as 10+ per day, don't get deleted (from my past experience). This article has
1 pageview per day, although I suppose we could account for that because the subject's prime years were in the past century, before the advent of Internet and easily-checkable sources. Next problem: please read the first sentence of the current (16 March 2016) lede paragraph : Sydney Cope Morgan MBE QC (25 October 1887 – 14 October 1967), was a British barrister and Liberal Party politician. Then, the article goes straight into his early years, which (in my view) gives
too much information about his trying to win a seat in Parliament, coming close, but no cigar. So, that's it? What did he do? What is he famous for? What did he accomplish? Or to put it in Wikipedia's terms, What is he
notable for? Is he notable for simply being a barrister? Hmmmmm? The British media chose not to write about him because they didn't consider him notable. If he did in fact receive an award, what did he do to earn that award? That's what I'd like to know. Now, if you can find
sources indicating otherwise, I'll be glad to change my vote, although I think the article needs a rewrite and especially trimming down. And my being 'American' has nothing to do with this, I'll axe or rescue articles based on the subject's notability not their nationality.--11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The Times obituary is not hidden behind a pay wall but freely accessible to anyone with a freely available UK library card, as is also the case with anyone wanting to access Who's Who. Just to clarify for our American friend
Tomwsulcer, he passes
WP:ANYBIO#1 "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor" for being awarded the
MBE. He also passes
WP:LAWYERS "A lawyer who has received an appointment that indicates pre-eminence within the profession, such as Queen's Counsel shall be treated in the same manner as a person who satisfies criteria 1 of WP:ANYBIO" for being appointed as a
Queen's Counsel. Unfortunately, Tomwsulcer's intervention means that we don't have a consensus in this AfD discussion, unless he chooses to withdraw his vote to delete.
Graemp (
talk) 06:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep per long consensus that an obituary in The Times proves notability. Although note that consensus is also that an MBE doesn't qualify under WP:ANYBIO #1. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 16:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment Agree consensus that MBE doesn't automatically qualify, but entry in Who's Who suggests notability and taken together should satisfy ANYBIO#1. Not all recipients of the MBE make the Who's Who cut. Graemp ( talk) 16:55, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. The nom hasn't even bothered to search....So closing as SK (non-admin closure) – Davey2010 Talk 01:30, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Sydney Cope Morgan
- Sydney Cope Morgan ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Four times failed parliamentary candidate. Uhooep ( talk) 03:49, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Vipinhari || talk 06:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Vipinhari || talk 06:33, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep: Entry in Who's Who (UK). Awarded the MBE. Graemp ( talk) 07:32, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep Obituary in The Times = notable. Andrew D. ( talk) 18:16, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
- Delete. There is a mention here. He wrote a book. But my open-sweep of news found not much here plus I could not find the obituary (hidden behind a paywall?).-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 23:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The Times obituary is not hidden behind a pay wall but freely accessible to anyone with a freely available UK library card, as is also the case with anyone wanting to access Who's Who. Just to clarify for our American friend
Tomwsulcer, he passes
WP:ANYBIO#1 "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor" for being awarded the
MBE. He also passes
WP:LAWYERS "A lawyer who has received an appointment that indicates pre-eminence within the profession, such as Queen's Counsel shall be treated in the same manner as a person who satisfies criteria 1 of WP:ANYBIO" for being appointed as a
Queen's Counsel. Unfortunately, Tomwsulcer's intervention means that we don't have a consensus in this AfD discussion, unless he chooses to withdraw his vote to delete.
Graemp (
talk) 06:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply. Well, supposing there is an obituary notice in The Times, there are still some problems here. One of my tests -- admittedly unofficial -- is pageviews, and usually articles with substantial pageviews, such as 10+ per day, don't get deleted (from my past experience). This article has
1 pageview per day, although I suppose we could account for that because the subject's prime years were in the past century, before the advent of Internet and easily-checkable sources. Next problem: please read the first sentence of the current (16 March 2016) lede paragraph : Sydney Cope Morgan MBE QC (25 October 1887 – 14 October 1967), was a British barrister and Liberal Party politician. Then, the article goes straight into his early years, which (in my view) gives
too much information about his trying to win a seat in Parliament, coming close, but no cigar. So, that's it? What did he do? What is he famous for? What did he accomplish? Or to put it in Wikipedia's terms, What is he
notable for? Is he notable for simply being a barrister? Hmmmmm? The British media chose not to write about him because they didn't consider him notable. If he did in fact receive an award, what did he do to earn that award? That's what I'd like to know. Now, if you can find
sources indicating otherwise, I'll be glad to change my vote, although I think the article needs a rewrite and especially trimming down. And my being 'American' has nothing to do with this, I'll axe or rescue articles based on the subject's notability not their nationality.--11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply: I agree, you being American does have nothing to do with this, but you being unable to check references from key sources is. If I was unable to do this basic thing, I'd probably butt out of any AfD. Check out the logo top left - an incomplete Globe; we don't delete articles for being incomplete, if we did then there would be a heck of a lot of stubs that would need to be deleted. The article defines his notability and is properly sourced with in-line citations. He may not pass
Tomwsulcer notability criteria but fortunately he meets Wikipedia's notability criteria.
Graemp (
talk) 13:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- I can be persuaded if you show sources.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:04, 16 March 2016 (UTC) Also according to the paragraph above ANYBIO it says People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards ... meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 15:08, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply: I agree, you being American does have nothing to do with this, but you being unable to check references from key sources is. If I was unable to do this basic thing, I'd probably butt out of any AfD. Check out the logo top left - an incomplete Globe; we don't delete articles for being incomplete, if we did then there would be a heck of a lot of stubs that would need to be deleted. The article defines his notability and is properly sourced with in-line citations. He may not pass
Tomwsulcer notability criteria but fortunately he meets Wikipedia's notability criteria.
Graemp (
talk) 13:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reply. Well, supposing there is an obituary notice in The Times, there are still some problems here. One of my tests -- admittedly unofficial -- is pageviews, and usually articles with substantial pageviews, such as 10+ per day, don't get deleted (from my past experience). This article has
1 pageview per day, although I suppose we could account for that because the subject's prime years were in the past century, before the advent of Internet and easily-checkable sources. Next problem: please read the first sentence of the current (16 March 2016) lede paragraph : Sydney Cope Morgan MBE QC (25 October 1887 – 14 October 1967), was a British barrister and Liberal Party politician. Then, the article goes straight into his early years, which (in my view) gives
too much information about his trying to win a seat in Parliament, coming close, but no cigar. So, that's it? What did he do? What is he famous for? What did he accomplish? Or to put it in Wikipedia's terms, What is he
notable for? Is he notable for simply being a barrister? Hmmmmm? The British media chose not to write about him because they didn't consider him notable. If he did in fact receive an award, what did he do to earn that award? That's what I'd like to know. Now, if you can find
sources indicating otherwise, I'll be glad to change my vote, although I think the article needs a rewrite and especially trimming down. And my being 'American' has nothing to do with this, I'll axe or rescue articles based on the subject's notability not their nationality.--11:32, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The Times obituary is not hidden behind a pay wall but freely accessible to anyone with a freely available UK library card, as is also the case with anyone wanting to access Who's Who. Just to clarify for our American friend
Tomwsulcer, he passes
WP:ANYBIO#1 "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor" for being awarded the
MBE. He also passes
WP:LAWYERS "A lawyer who has received an appointment that indicates pre-eminence within the profession, such as Queen's Counsel shall be treated in the same manner as a person who satisfies criteria 1 of WP:ANYBIO" for being appointed as a
Queen's Counsel. Unfortunately, Tomwsulcer's intervention means that we don't have a consensus in this AfD discussion, unless he chooses to withdraw his vote to delete.
Graemp (
talk) 06:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Keep per long consensus that an obituary in The Times proves notability. Although note that consensus is also that an MBE doesn't qualify under WP:ANYBIO #1. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 16:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- Comment Agree consensus that MBE doesn't automatically qualify, but entry in Who's Who suggests notability and taken together should satisfy ANYBIO#1. Not all recipients of the MBE make the Who's Who cut. Graemp ( talk) 16:55, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.