- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. ( non-admin closure) Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:46, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
- Susan E. King ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Fails WP:BASIC. Unable to locate any independent, secondary sources to support notability. This comes close, but is in fact an advertisement for a presentation by the author.
- Fails WP:ANYBIO. While this author received a National Museum of Women in the Arts book fellowship, this award does not appear to be a "well-known and significant award or honor", per WP:ANYBIO. In fact, the National Museum of Women in the Arts website does not mention either this award or this author.
- Fails WP:AUTHOR. While this author's works have been reviewed in various publishers' journals, such as this, the only significant review I was able to locate was this one sentence in the Los Angeles Times. Thus, this author does not appear to be "an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors", per WP:AUTHOR. Magnolia677 ( talk) 12:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC) Magnolia677 ( talk) 12:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Withdrawn by nominatior Magnolia677 ( talk) 17:14, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Yes, the NMWA does mention Susan. In fact, one of the existing citations is to the website of the NWMA. -- Zanimum ( talk) 13:28, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note,
about the program itself, as told by the NWMA itself: "The Library Fellows Program was established in 1989 to encourage and support the creation of artists' books and to benefit the NMWA Library and Research Center (LRC)... From 1990–2013, 21 artists’ books were published." It's an inactive program, thus why the Fellowship has a diminished profile on their website. --
Zanimum (
talk) 13:51, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - It's a non-notable award, and none of the links you provided are secondary sources which could establish notability. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:00, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. She is a very well-known book artist whose work is collected in many museum and library collections. She is featured in Johanna Drucker's book, The Century of Artists Books, a major work by one of the major scholars in the field.-- Tornadox ( talk) 18:59, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Has her biography been written in any reliable secondary sources, or could you list any notable and significant awards she has won?
Magnolia677 (
talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- I listed the awards from the NMWA. She has also received 2 awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, and has served as a grant panelist for the NEA. Those are big deals.
- Has her biography been written in any reliable secondary sources, or could you list any notable and significant awards she has won?
Magnolia677 (
talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep this artist is in numerous collections of major institutions, and has a significant track record of exhibitions, teaching, and contributions to the women's art movement. She has received a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, and has had major press coverage. Netherzone ( talk) 23:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- This was the only source I could find regarding a grant from the NEA, and it was not awarded to King, but to a team she was on. Furthermore, the NEA has awarded 128,000 grants. You're not suggesting this should contribute to the notability of this article? Magnolia677 ( talk) 02:36, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Even if it doesn't contribute to the notability, does it detract from the notability? --
Zanimum (
talk) 06:37, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - this visual artist is an example of one who works in the genre of the Artist's book - which is not the same as a writer or author of a book, nor is it the same as a graphic novelist. The Artist's book is a genre in and of itself, beginning in the early 20th C. avant garde movements, and flourishing during Conceptual art in the 1970's to the present. This artists work (in the form of a book - not a book about art - but rather a book that is intended as an artwork itself, to further clarify) is held in several of the top museum collections: the Brooklyn Museum, the Victoria and Albert Museum, the Museum of Modern Art New York, the Getty Research Institute which is the scholarly arm of the Getty Museum, Harvard University and other permanent collections. As to the grants, here is an analogy: it is not at all unusual for teams of scientists to apply for and receive a NSF grant for a project. The collectivity of the team does not diminish the credibility of the team members, nor the NSF. Same in the arts: if an artist team applies for a collective grant from the NEA, their collaboration does not diminish their importance as individual artists, nor does it diminish the National Endowment for the Arts. The argument that the NEA has awarded 128,000 grants is proof of its resiliency of support to the arts in the United States since its founding in 1965, but it is being used in the argument above to dilute its prestige. The number of grants an institution gives does not diminish it's prestige. Furthermore, being in the collection of the National Museum of Women in the Arts is about the highest honor a woman artist can have. Museums collect tens of thousands of objects, and not all of them are going to make it onto their website. Grants from the Women's Studio Workshop and the Visual Studies Workshop may not be those that you personally have heard of, but in the U.S. art world, these are prestigious and highly competitive awards. She has received numerous reviews (secondary sources) for her work, and is a well respected educator. She has exhibited her work, and although I have not had time to research other exhibitions, I hope the creator of this page, Maberry might have time to do so. This article has 32 citations - the press coverage has been significant. There is no question in my mind that this woman artist is notable, I say that with no hesitation whatsoever. It is difficult to understand the unreasonable level of scrutiny to which her collections and awards prove that notability are being examined. Netherzone ( talk) 14:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep A thoroughly sourced biographical article that supports the claim of notability with ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn ( talk) 16:18, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. ( non-admin closure) Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:46, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
- Susan E. King ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Fails WP:BASIC. Unable to locate any independent, secondary sources to support notability. This comes close, but is in fact an advertisement for a presentation by the author.
- Fails WP:ANYBIO. While this author received a National Museum of Women in the Arts book fellowship, this award does not appear to be a "well-known and significant award or honor", per WP:ANYBIO. In fact, the National Museum of Women in the Arts website does not mention either this award or this author.
- Fails WP:AUTHOR. While this author's works have been reviewed in various publishers' journals, such as this, the only significant review I was able to locate was this one sentence in the Los Angeles Times. Thus, this author does not appear to be "an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors", per WP:AUTHOR. Magnolia677 ( talk) 12:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC) Magnolia677 ( talk) 12:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Withdrawn by nominatior Magnolia677 ( talk) 17:14, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Yes, the NMWA does mention Susan. In fact, one of the existing citations is to the website of the NWMA. -- Zanimum ( talk) 13:28, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note,
about the program itself, as told by the NWMA itself: "The Library Fellows Program was established in 1989 to encourage and support the creation of artists' books and to benefit the NMWA Library and Research Center (LRC)... From 1990–2013, 21 artists’ books were published." It's an inactive program, thus why the Fellowship has a diminished profile on their website. --
Zanimum (
talk) 13:51, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - It's a non-notable award, and none of the links you provided are secondary sources which could establish notability. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:00, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 15:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. She is a very well-known book artist whose work is collected in many museum and library collections. She is featured in Johanna Drucker's book, The Century of Artists Books, a major work by one of the major scholars in the field.-- Tornadox ( talk) 18:59, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Has her biography been written in any reliable secondary sources, or could you list any notable and significant awards she has won?
Magnolia677 (
talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- I listed the awards from the NMWA. She has also received 2 awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, and has served as a grant panelist for the NEA. Those are big deals.
- Has her biography been written in any reliable secondary sources, or could you list any notable and significant awards she has won?
Magnolia677 (
talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep this artist is in numerous collections of major institutions, and has a significant track record of exhibitions, teaching, and contributions to the women's art movement. She has received a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, and has had major press coverage. Netherzone ( talk) 23:42, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
- This was the only source I could find regarding a grant from the NEA, and it was not awarded to King, but to a team she was on. Furthermore, the NEA has awarded 128,000 grants. You're not suggesting this should contribute to the notability of this article? Magnolia677 ( talk) 02:36, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Even if it doesn't contribute to the notability, does it detract from the notability? --
Zanimum (
talk) 06:37, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Comment - this visual artist is an example of one who works in the genre of the Artist's book - which is not the same as a writer or author of a book, nor is it the same as a graphic novelist. The Artist's book is a genre in and of itself, beginning in the early 20th C. avant garde movements, and flourishing during Conceptual art in the 1970's to the present. This artists work (in the form of a book - not a book about art - but rather a book that is intended as an artwork itself, to further clarify) is held in several of the top museum collections: the Brooklyn Museum, the Victoria and Albert Museum, the Museum of Modern Art New York, the Getty Research Institute which is the scholarly arm of the Getty Museum, Harvard University and other permanent collections. As to the grants, here is an analogy: it is not at all unusual for teams of scientists to apply for and receive a NSF grant for a project. The collectivity of the team does not diminish the credibility of the team members, nor the NSF. Same in the arts: if an artist team applies for a collective grant from the NEA, their collaboration does not diminish their importance as individual artists, nor does it diminish the National Endowment for the Arts. The argument that the NEA has awarded 128,000 grants is proof of its resiliency of support to the arts in the United States since its founding in 1965, but it is being used in the argument above to dilute its prestige. The number of grants an institution gives does not diminish it's prestige. Furthermore, being in the collection of the National Museum of Women in the Arts is about the highest honor a woman artist can have. Museums collect tens of thousands of objects, and not all of them are going to make it onto their website. Grants from the Women's Studio Workshop and the Visual Studies Workshop may not be those that you personally have heard of, but in the U.S. art world, these are prestigious and highly competitive awards. She has received numerous reviews (secondary sources) for her work, and is a well respected educator. She has exhibited her work, and although I have not had time to research other exhibitions, I hope the creator of this page, Maberry might have time to do so. This article has 32 citations - the press coverage has been significant. There is no question in my mind that this woman artist is notable, I say that with no hesitation whatsoever. It is difficult to understand the unreasonable level of scrutiny to which her collections and awards prove that notability are being examined. Netherzone ( talk) 14:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep A thoroughly sourced biographical article that supports the claim of notability with ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn ( talk) 16:18, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.