The result was no consensus. — Aitias // discussion 01:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC) reply
Non-notable college football player: This is the second AfD, the original closed with only 6 votes and no consensus (2 keep votes were from the article's creators). While I am firmly on the side that WP:ATHLETE should include notable American college football players (not all), this individual has --as of yet-- not done enough to distinguish himself. As of right now, he is a walk-on, non- scholarship player ( see here); his only highlight is a scout team award. He has never started a game, had any significant play-time this season, or had a notable-enough college career at any of his previous stops. The article is long and well-written, but does not at any point describe anything that crosses the threshold of notability for Wikipedia.
Putting this article into the greater context: If Wikipedia were to permit all Division I-FBS (top level) scholarship athletes, we'd have approximately [120 (teams) x 85 (NCAA-allowed scholarship players)] 10,200 new articles (at least). If you include walk-ons, that 10,200 number increases with very little room for any opinion on notability. A line must be drawn, and I think this line can be agreed upon. This article is basically a well-crafted vanity page; this article appears to be the work of either the subject, friend/relative, or PR firm. If it were allowed, any player who successfully walks onto any team would have a free ticket into Wikipedia. I could see an overrun of hopeful punters and kickers with the ability to create a "pretty" but ultimately non-notable page.
Because it came up earlier, I should note that the subject's level of education also isn't significant: the same USC roster includes a former high school Gatorade National Player of the Year and strong NFL prospect Jeff Byers, who is an MBA student. His article lists high school awards, but they are not significant like a national Player of the Year, or even a prestigious regional award.
Again: he has never started for USC or seen any significant playing time, which is a major blow to any notability questions. Because I support the inclusion of notable college football athletes in WP:ATHLETE, I feel this article harms the criteria for notable college football athlete. His USC bio shows nothing notable (in fact, unlike key players, there is no detailed information).
If the subject actually builds a successful, notable career at USC --starting in games, gaining significant playing time (and hopefully getting NFL, CFL or even Arena attention), then we have an existing article that can be quickly restored. The precedent has certainly been set: Clay Matthews III rose from a little-known walk-on to being a scholarship starting LB/DE this season and a solid NFL Draft prospect. Until Gatena reaches that point, Delete. Bobak ( talk) 18:21, 22 December 2008 (UTC) reply
This online encyclopedia was established to document information using a set of unified rules and standards. This article meets those rules and those standards. Why is this case being repetitively disputed by the same wikipedia user using the same arguments? According to this article which does cite various credible sources, Gatena has received many accolades, earned an honorable discharge from the United States Air Force, played for 3 division 1 schools, and has accomplished earning his masters degree all while competing at the highest level of amateur football possible. Gatena's online USC bio was never finished because he was a late transfer not because he is not credible. Comparing Gatena to his teammates is irrelevant. If his teammates meet the standards for WP:ATHLETE then they should have an article.
By comparing Gatena to others you create a variable standard for establishing WP:ATHLETE bio's. One could speculate that if Gatena was still playing for UC Davis he would be the only graduate student on his football team and be a possible All American. Then would he be credible enough? If wikipedia used team comparison as a standard for listing an article many professional and amateur athletes who are second string on championship teams could not be listed on wikipedia. Furthermore, those who are first string on the worst teams would have bio's. This is why wikipedia has established consistent standards for WP:ATHLETE, so there could be a fair, uniformed standard for listing individuals who fall under WP:ATHLETE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99Legend ( talk • contribs) 01:03, 26 December 2008
The result was no consensus. — Aitias // discussion 01:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC) reply
Non-notable college football player: This is the second AfD, the original closed with only 6 votes and no consensus (2 keep votes were from the article's creators). While I am firmly on the side that WP:ATHLETE should include notable American college football players (not all), this individual has --as of yet-- not done enough to distinguish himself. As of right now, he is a walk-on, non- scholarship player ( see here); his only highlight is a scout team award. He has never started a game, had any significant play-time this season, or had a notable-enough college career at any of his previous stops. The article is long and well-written, but does not at any point describe anything that crosses the threshold of notability for Wikipedia.
Putting this article into the greater context: If Wikipedia were to permit all Division I-FBS (top level) scholarship athletes, we'd have approximately [120 (teams) x 85 (NCAA-allowed scholarship players)] 10,200 new articles (at least). If you include walk-ons, that 10,200 number increases with very little room for any opinion on notability. A line must be drawn, and I think this line can be agreed upon. This article is basically a well-crafted vanity page; this article appears to be the work of either the subject, friend/relative, or PR firm. If it were allowed, any player who successfully walks onto any team would have a free ticket into Wikipedia. I could see an overrun of hopeful punters and kickers with the ability to create a "pretty" but ultimately non-notable page.
Because it came up earlier, I should note that the subject's level of education also isn't significant: the same USC roster includes a former high school Gatorade National Player of the Year and strong NFL prospect Jeff Byers, who is an MBA student. His article lists high school awards, but they are not significant like a national Player of the Year, or even a prestigious regional award.
Again: he has never started for USC or seen any significant playing time, which is a major blow to any notability questions. Because I support the inclusion of notable college football athletes in WP:ATHLETE, I feel this article harms the criteria for notable college football athlete. His USC bio shows nothing notable (in fact, unlike key players, there is no detailed information).
If the subject actually builds a successful, notable career at USC --starting in games, gaining significant playing time (and hopefully getting NFL, CFL or even Arena attention), then we have an existing article that can be quickly restored. The precedent has certainly been set: Clay Matthews III rose from a little-known walk-on to being a scholarship starting LB/DE this season and a solid NFL Draft prospect. Until Gatena reaches that point, Delete. Bobak ( talk) 18:21, 22 December 2008 (UTC) reply
This online encyclopedia was established to document information using a set of unified rules and standards. This article meets those rules and those standards. Why is this case being repetitively disputed by the same wikipedia user using the same arguments? According to this article which does cite various credible sources, Gatena has received many accolades, earned an honorable discharge from the United States Air Force, played for 3 division 1 schools, and has accomplished earning his masters degree all while competing at the highest level of amateur football possible. Gatena's online USC bio was never finished because he was a late transfer not because he is not credible. Comparing Gatena to his teammates is irrelevant. If his teammates meet the standards for WP:ATHLETE then they should have an article.
By comparing Gatena to others you create a variable standard for establishing WP:ATHLETE bio's. One could speculate that if Gatena was still playing for UC Davis he would be the only graduate student on his football team and be a possible All American. Then would he be credible enough? If wikipedia used team comparison as a standard for listing an article many professional and amateur athletes who are second string on championship teams could not be listed on wikipedia. Furthermore, those who are first string on the worst teams would have bio's. This is why wikipedia has established consistent standards for WP:ATHLETE, so there could be a fair, uniformed standard for listing individuals who fall under WP:ATHLETE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99Legend ( talk • contribs) 01:03, 26 December 2008