- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ( WP:SNOW). NorthAmerica 1000 09:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
St. Ouen F.C.
- St. Ouen F.C. ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not a notable club - has never competed in an FA cup competition (Cup, Trophy, Amateur Cup or Vase) as per [Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Notability this page/many other discussions] Kivo ( talk) 12:32, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 December 6. — cyberbot I NotifyOnline 12:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment While not generally notable in an international setting, the club does participate at the
highest level of the
Jersey Football Association, and has previously participated in the
Le Riche Cup, which is Jersey's equivalent of the FA Cup; this makes the club notable to Jersey.
League Octopus wrote an
essay a couple years ago advocating for a more accurate definition of club notability. While I understand it is not the official position of
WP:FOOTY regarding club notability, there are a number of valid points brought up. Were we to write articles only on clubs that are notable in an international setting, then developing football programs would largely be ignored. Should the consensus be to delete this article, I propose that it be replaced with a redirect to
Jersey Football Association#Affiliated Clubs and that the article could be replaced once the club meets
WP:GNG or such standards as may be set at
WP:FOOTY. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 13:56, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Keep Having done a little more research, I am ready to cast a !vote. I refer to
club notability guidelines, which state "All teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet
WP:N criteria. Teams that are not eligible for national cups must be shown to meet broader
WP:N criteria." (emphasis in article) As St. Ouen plays at the highest level in the Jersey FA and has participated Jersey's national cup, it must be assumed that St. Ouen meets
WP:N, thus the article should not be deleted. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 14:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment In the footballing world, clubs from Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man fall under the jurisdiction of the English FA, meaning notability comes in the form of having played in the FA Cup, Amateur Cup, Trophy or Vase. Jersey's main cup competition is not a national cup but the equivalent of a county senior cup such as the Derbyshire Senior Cup. Therefore the only clubs from the Crown Dependencies to be notable are Guernsey F.C. (Cup, Trophy and Vase), First Tower United F.C. (Vase), St. Martins AC F.C. (Vase), Vale Recreation F.C. (Vase) and Douglas High School Old Boys A.F.C. (Vase) Kivo ( talk) 18:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Keep Having done a little more research, I am ready to cast a !vote. I refer to
club notability guidelines, which state "All teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet
WP:N criteria. Teams that are not eligible for national cups must be shown to meet broader
WP:N criteria." (emphasis in article) As St. Ouen plays at the highest level in the Jersey FA and has participated Jersey's national cup, it must be assumed that St. Ouen meets
WP:N, thus the article should not be deleted. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 14:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 14:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Jersey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per Jkudlick. And also because it fulfills
WP:GNG as it is covered in numerous independent reliable sources (national newspapers, the BBC)
The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 22:00, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Again, Jkudlick is incorrect when he states that the Jersey FA Cup is a notable competition - it isn't. It is a County FA competition that has the same standing as the
Derbyshire Senior Cup or the
Sheffield & Hallamshire Senior Cup.
Kivo (
talk) 23:33, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is only relevant if one is arguing using WP:FOOTYN as rationale for keeping. I am arguing it fulfils WP:GNG through the independent coverage it has received. The C of E God Save the Queen! ( talk) 13:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Again, Jkudlick is incorrect when he states that the Jersey FA Cup is a notable competition - it isn't. It is a County FA competition that has the same standing as the
Derbyshire Senior Cup or the
Sheffield & Hallamshire Senior Cup.
Kivo (
talk) 23:33, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep This is a bit of a grey area due to the Channel Islands' constitutional status – they are in many ways sovereign states (as far as I am aware, the UK government exerts no control over them), and as such, clubs playing in the top division should be considered automatically notable (as should playing in the "national" cup). The fact that a small number of clubs from the Channel Islands have occasionally taken part in English cup competitions doesn't necessarily mean they should be considered English – it's more an issue of convenience and close links with England, much like Liechtenstein clubs playing in the Swiss leagues. But anyway, I think the issue is resolved in this case, as it's fairly obvious that the club passes the WP:GNG. Number 5 7 01:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - Blatantly passes GNG. IJA ( talk) 11:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. Appears to pass GNG. Nice to see an article on a minor football club with content from somewhere other than FCHD or its own website. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 15:24, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - passes GNG. Giant Snowman 13:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:GNG. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep agreed with Struway2. If more articles about smaller clubs were as good we would probably have less strict (and silly) notability standards. Cptnono ( talk) 08:08, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ( WP:SNOW). NorthAmerica 1000 09:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
St. Ouen F.C.
- St. Ouen F.C. ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not a notable club - has never competed in an FA cup competition (Cup, Trophy, Amateur Cup or Vase) as per [Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Notability this page/many other discussions] Kivo ( talk) 12:32, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 December 6. — cyberbot I NotifyOnline 12:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment While not generally notable in an international setting, the club does participate at the
highest level of the
Jersey Football Association, and has previously participated in the
Le Riche Cup, which is Jersey's equivalent of the FA Cup; this makes the club notable to Jersey.
League Octopus wrote an
essay a couple years ago advocating for a more accurate definition of club notability. While I understand it is not the official position of
WP:FOOTY regarding club notability, there are a number of valid points brought up. Were we to write articles only on clubs that are notable in an international setting, then developing football programs would largely be ignored. Should the consensus be to delete this article, I propose that it be replaced with a redirect to
Jersey Football Association#Affiliated Clubs and that the article could be replaced once the club meets
WP:GNG or such standards as may be set at
WP:FOOTY. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 13:56, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Keep Having done a little more research, I am ready to cast a !vote. I refer to
club notability guidelines, which state "All teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet
WP:N criteria. Teams that are not eligible for national cups must be shown to meet broader
WP:N criteria." (emphasis in article) As St. Ouen plays at the highest level in the Jersey FA and has participated Jersey's national cup, it must be assumed that St. Ouen meets
WP:N, thus the article should not be deleted. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 14:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment In the footballing world, clubs from Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man fall under the jurisdiction of the English FA, meaning notability comes in the form of having played in the FA Cup, Amateur Cup, Trophy or Vase. Jersey's main cup competition is not a national cup but the equivalent of a county senior cup such as the Derbyshire Senior Cup. Therefore the only clubs from the Crown Dependencies to be notable are Guernsey F.C. (Cup, Trophy and Vase), First Tower United F.C. (Vase), St. Martins AC F.C. (Vase), Vale Recreation F.C. (Vase) and Douglas High School Old Boys A.F.C. (Vase) Kivo ( talk) 18:47, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- (
edit conflict) Keep Having done a little more research, I am ready to cast a !vote. I refer to
club notability guidelines, which state "All teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet
WP:N criteria. Teams that are not eligible for national cups must be shown to meet broader
WP:N criteria." (emphasis in article) As St. Ouen plays at the highest level in the Jersey FA and has participated Jersey's national cup, it must be assumed that St. Ouen meets
WP:N, thus the article should not be deleted. --
Jkudlick
t
c
s 14:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 14:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Jersey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 15:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per Jkudlick. And also because it fulfills
WP:GNG as it is covered in numerous independent reliable sources (national newspapers, the BBC)
The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 22:00, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Again, Jkudlick is incorrect when he states that the Jersey FA Cup is a notable competition - it isn't. It is a County FA competition that has the same standing as the
Derbyshire Senior Cup or the
Sheffield & Hallamshire Senior Cup.
Kivo (
talk) 23:33, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- That is only relevant if one is arguing using WP:FOOTYN as rationale for keeping. I am arguing it fulfils WP:GNG through the independent coverage it has received. The C of E God Save the Queen! ( talk) 13:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Comment Again, Jkudlick is incorrect when he states that the Jersey FA Cup is a notable competition - it isn't. It is a County FA competition that has the same standing as the
Derbyshire Senior Cup or the
Sheffield & Hallamshire Senior Cup.
Kivo (
talk) 23:33, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep This is a bit of a grey area due to the Channel Islands' constitutional status – they are in many ways sovereign states (as far as I am aware, the UK government exerts no control over them), and as such, clubs playing in the top division should be considered automatically notable (as should playing in the "national" cup). The fact that a small number of clubs from the Channel Islands have occasionally taken part in English cup competitions doesn't necessarily mean they should be considered English – it's more an issue of convenience and close links with England, much like Liechtenstein clubs playing in the Swiss leagues. But anyway, I think the issue is resolved in this case, as it's fairly obvious that the club passes the WP:GNG. Number 5 7 01:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - Blatantly passes GNG. IJA ( talk) 11:21, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. Appears to pass GNG. Nice to see an article on a minor football club with content from somewhere other than FCHD or its own website. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 15:24, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep - passes GNG. Giant Snowman 13:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:GNG. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 17:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
- Keep agreed with Struway2. If more articles about smaller clubs were as good we would probably have less strict (and silly) notability standards. Cptnono ( talk) 08:08, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.