- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep, as improved. BD2412 T 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- Shea Heights ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) –( Viewlog · [1]):(Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not a notable neighbourhood; not in any sense encyclopedically relevant.-- NL19931993 ( talk) 21:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:33, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:34, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- Comment, just wondering if the nominator considered a "redirect/merge" to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador (may need to make a "Neighbourhoods" section?), anyway, found this - "This was the second way that expansion took place – nearby communities were folded into the City of St. John's. Blackhead Road (later renamed Shea Heights), a community settled mostly during the 1930s by St. John's residents who could not find or afford housing within city limits, was one such area. It had a reputation for unemployment and poor housing, but a 1963 federal-provincial Urban Renewal Project improved conditions and services, and Shea Heights was added to the St. John's Metropolitan Area (a census area defined by Statistics Canada as an urban area, having a population of at least 100,000, consisting of the urban core and surrounding urban fringe) the same year. However, it did not officially become part of St. John's until 1984, and still retains its identity as a distinct community.", so feeling a bit keepish about this. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:59, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep or redirect on the basis that we generally take a highly inclusionist approach to populated areas of any type and size, per WP:GEOLAND, and this appears to be a populated and recognised area, although I'm a little unclear on whether it is legally recognised, or what would be required to demonstrate that. Like Coolabahapple I'd argue for a redirect/merge to the larger settlement if there was a consensus against keeping the standalone article. Hug syrup 14:00, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador - per WP:GEOLAND we have low bar for inclusion, however this area must be a legally recognized area, and it is not. For neighborhoods like Shea Heights, we need to pass GNG, and we do not have RS for that. Lightburst ( talk) 22:56, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Searching on "Blackhead Road" in a few seconds I find Williamson, T. Morgan (1971) Blackhead Road: a community study in urban renewal. Masters thesis, Memorial University of Newfoundland., which looks like substantial reliable source coverage of the community, the result of major study by Williamson. Its bibliography includes numerous materials about community development and urban renewal, some which may be largely about Blackhead. Some are general national level works, some are more local / primary sources. A few are (sorry for some garbling in copy-pasting, partly but not wholly fixed by me):
- Iverson, Noel and l-1atthews, D. Ralph 1968 Communities in Decline: An Examination of Household Resettlement in Newfoundland. St. John's, Nfld.: Institute o£ Social and Economic Research Memorial University of Newfoundland.
- Works by Project Planning Associates, Ltd. (
- 1961 City of St. John's Newfoundland Urban Renewal Stu • Prepared for the Municipa Counoil. oronto.
- 1965 An Interim Report on Urban Renewal at Blackhead.
- 1966 "Residential Standards and Rehabilitation". In Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Part I, Toronto (July).
- 1966 "Housing at Blackhead" • In Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Part III, Toronto (October) • . ~
- 1967 Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Final
- Various dates of St. John's Daily News and St. John's Evening Telegram coverage.
- I notice that one place the masters thesis is cited is Urban Sociology in Canada, 1986, 2nd Edition, by Peter McGahan.
- "Blackhead Road" is mentioned in this about National Film Board of Canada, where the mention i think means it was one of the communities that were subject of a documentary.
- I'll stop here. It looks to me that this was formerly a separate community, and has been the subject of plenty of study, and the topic meets GEOLAND and GNG. -- Doncram ( talk) 18:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- Move Doncram's sources suggest that Blackhead may be a notable neighborhood, not Shea Heights. Reywas92 Talk 22:41, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- For AFD purposes, i think Reywas92's view should be interpreted as "Keep", though maybe with a recommendation to consider moving/renaming, but leave that up to editors at the article's talk page, or to a wp:RM more fully evaluating weight of coverage. BTW, "Move" is not an outcome recognized in wp:AFDSTATS. I happen to write mostly about old places listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places, and I usually do like to use the historic name of place during time of its significance. But if the current name is different and is common enough in usage, I often/usually have to go along with "modernists" for the article title, as long as both appear in bold in the first sentence of lede. Here, I am not sure "Blackhead" is better than "Shea Heights" as article title or not; I would tend to defer to knowledgeable locals. :( -- Doncram ( talk) 02:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep As of this moment, I have completely rewritten the article from the ground up per WP:HEY. It's a former standalone community called Blackhead Road. Easily passes WP:GEOLAND #1 and I will let the sources in the new article speak for themselves. SportingFlyer T· C 22:28, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep, thanks to SportingFlyer for improving the article to show that it meets WP:GEOLAND. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep, as improved. BD2412 T 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- Shea Heights ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) –( Viewlog · [1]):(Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Not a notable neighbourhood; not in any sense encyclopedically relevant.-- NL19931993 ( talk) 21:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:33, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:34, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- Comment, just wondering if the nominator considered a "redirect/merge" to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador (may need to make a "Neighbourhoods" section?), anyway, found this - "This was the second way that expansion took place – nearby communities were folded into the City of St. John's. Blackhead Road (later renamed Shea Heights), a community settled mostly during the 1930s by St. John's residents who could not find or afford housing within city limits, was one such area. It had a reputation for unemployment and poor housing, but a 1963 federal-provincial Urban Renewal Project improved conditions and services, and Shea Heights was added to the St. John's Metropolitan Area (a census area defined by Statistics Canada as an urban area, having a population of at least 100,000, consisting of the urban core and surrounding urban fringe) the same year. However, it did not officially become part of St. John's until 1984, and still retains its identity as a distinct community.", so feeling a bit keepish about this. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:59, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep or redirect on the basis that we generally take a highly inclusionist approach to populated areas of any type and size, per WP:GEOLAND, and this appears to be a populated and recognised area, although I'm a little unclear on whether it is legally recognised, or what would be required to demonstrate that. Like Coolabahapple I'd argue for a redirect/merge to the larger settlement if there was a consensus against keeping the standalone article. Hug syrup 14:00, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador - per WP:GEOLAND we have low bar for inclusion, however this area must be a legally recognized area, and it is not. For neighborhoods like Shea Heights, we need to pass GNG, and we do not have RS for that. Lightburst ( talk) 22:56, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Searching on "Blackhead Road" in a few seconds I find Williamson, T. Morgan (1971) Blackhead Road: a community study in urban renewal. Masters thesis, Memorial University of Newfoundland., which looks like substantial reliable source coverage of the community, the result of major study by Williamson. Its bibliography includes numerous materials about community development and urban renewal, some which may be largely about Blackhead. Some are general national level works, some are more local / primary sources. A few are (sorry for some garbling in copy-pasting, partly but not wholly fixed by me):
- Iverson, Noel and l-1atthews, D. Ralph 1968 Communities in Decline: An Examination of Household Resettlement in Newfoundland. St. John's, Nfld.: Institute o£ Social and Economic Research Memorial University of Newfoundland.
- Works by Project Planning Associates, Ltd. (
- 1961 City of St. John's Newfoundland Urban Renewal Stu • Prepared for the Municipa Counoil. oronto.
- 1965 An Interim Report on Urban Renewal at Blackhead.
- 1966 "Residential Standards and Rehabilitation". In Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Part I, Toronto (July).
- 1966 "Housing at Blackhead" • In Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Part III, Toronto (October) • . ~
- 1967 Blackhead: St. John's Urban Renewal Scheme Final
- Various dates of St. John's Daily News and St. John's Evening Telegram coverage.
- I notice that one place the masters thesis is cited is Urban Sociology in Canada, 1986, 2nd Edition, by Peter McGahan.
- "Blackhead Road" is mentioned in this about National Film Board of Canada, where the mention i think means it was one of the communities that were subject of a documentary.
- I'll stop here. It looks to me that this was formerly a separate community, and has been the subject of plenty of study, and the topic meets GEOLAND and GNG. -- Doncram ( talk) 18:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- Move Doncram's sources suggest that Blackhead may be a notable neighborhood, not Shea Heights. Reywas92 Talk 22:41, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- For AFD purposes, i think Reywas92's view should be interpreted as "Keep", though maybe with a recommendation to consider moving/renaming, but leave that up to editors at the article's talk page, or to a wp:RM more fully evaluating weight of coverage. BTW, "Move" is not an outcome recognized in wp:AFDSTATS. I happen to write mostly about old places listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places, and I usually do like to use the historic name of place during time of its significance. But if the current name is different and is common enough in usage, I often/usually have to go along with "modernists" for the article title, as long as both appear in bold in the first sentence of lede. Here, I am not sure "Blackhead" is better than "Shea Heights" as article title or not; I would tend to defer to knowledgeable locals. :( -- Doncram ( talk) 02:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep As of this moment, I have completely rewritten the article from the ground up per WP:HEY. It's a former standalone community called Blackhead Road. Easily passes WP:GEOLAND #1 and I will let the sources in the new article speak for themselves. SportingFlyer T· C 22:28, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
- Keep, thanks to SportingFlyer for improving the article to show that it meets WP:GEOLAND. Coolabahapple ( talk) 01:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.