The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of breweries in San Diego County, California. MBisanz ^talk 20:20, 24 October 2012 (UTC) reply

Rough Draft Brewing Company

Rough Draft Brewing Company (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Stub about a non-notable brewery. The company has been in operation less than a year. The only press coverage I found was about the opening. MelanieN ( talk) 16:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. MelanieN ( talk) 16:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. MelanieN ( talk) 16:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. MelanieN ( talk) 16:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC) reply

• Weak Keep – Meets WP:GNG per:

• Beer Touring: Rough Draft Brewing Company
• Five new San Diego breweries

— Northamerica1000 ^(talk) 06:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC) reply

Comment Yes, I saw those, as I mentioned above. Two articles about the opening (one of which lumps it in with four other new breweries; are they all notable too?) hardly seem like "significant coverage from multiple independent reliable sources". -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:00, 2 October 2012 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten ( talk) 20:38, 5 October 2012 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete, Although I enjoy drinking craft beer, I believe that it is WP:TOOSOON for this article to yet have a standalone article. I have not found sufficient indepth coverage of the subject. Although the San Diego Reader article is definitively a step in the right direction, the UT article only really mentions the subject in passing. Perhaps several (say 5) more indepth articles or coverage from reliable sources of similar nature will be sufficient for the subject to pass WP:ORG and/or WP:GNG.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 01:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC) reply

• Comment - Topics only need significant coverage in two sources to pass WP:GNG, rather than five or more as opined above. Per the General notability guideline: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." Note that sources in this matter refers to two or more. Also, I've slightly revised my !vote above. Northamerica1000 ^(talk) 06:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC) reply

There is NOT a consensus that two sources are enough; see Wikipedia talk:Notability#What is "multiple" sources?. But there IS consensus that the coverage has to be "significant", and that is not the case with the U-T article, which devotes one paragraph to this subject in an article about five new breweries. -- MelanieN ( talk) 13:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete for now. The UT article, as mentioned, is not in depth coverage and does not really help establish notability. The San Diego Reader article is a good first step, however that alone is not enough to show any widespread, in depth coverage. No prejudice against recreation if and when the brewerly gains more coverage, but at this point there just is not enough to claim notability. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:50, 12 October 2012 (UTC) reply
• Keep - I looked at the sources and it looks like enough coverage from which to include enough text in the article. I think the topic meets WP:GNG. -- Uzma Gamal ( talk) 13:22, 13 October 2012 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Mr. Stradivarius ^{( have a chat)} 12:07, 14 October 2012 (UTC) reply

• Weak Delete This is a close one, but I don't think this company is there yet as far as noatability. As mentioned above, two mentions don't quite qualify as significant coverage, and the other websites that discuss the company don't quite make the reliable source cut. Maybe in another year or two. Nwlaw63 ( talk) 17:03, 14 October 2012 (UTC) reply
• Weak delete: The San Diego Reader piece is in the first person and raises some questions about the independence of its author, given his connections to the brewery. The other piece is clearly independent, but is just as clearly not significant. I did a search of my own and didn't turn up anything that could add to the case for WP:GNG compliance. This may well merit an article soon, if and when there's more substantial coverage. Not yet, though. -- Batard0 ( talk) 16:41, 22 October 2012 (UTC) reply
• Comment I wish I could think of a suitable redirect, but I can't. Here's an idea for somebody: create the page List of breweries in San Diego County, California. There are nearly 100 here, many of them nationally significant, but many more like the current subject: up-and-coming but not there yet. The precedent is for such a list to include both notable and non-notable breweries; see, for example, List of breweries in Australia, List of breweries in Quebec, etc. -- MelanieN ( talk) 17:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC) reply
• Keep I added recent awards and news from the San Diego Magazine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.232.243 ( talk) 14:18, 23 October 2012 (UTC) reply

"Beer of the week" awards from a local magazine? Hardly a "notable" award; please see WP:GNG. (Interestingly, the two articles from San Diego Magazine are written by the same person that wrote the Reader article - an individual that User:Batard0 suspected of having connections to the brewery.) -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:27, 23 October 2012 (UTC) reply

• As nominator, I am changing my opinion to Redirect to List of breweries in San Diego County, California - which I just created. This will preserve the article history for a possible future article - since everyone seems to think this brewery is on the brink of notability. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:38, 23 October 2012 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.