- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. There is a clear majority for deletion, and the argument is reasonably well grounded in the guidelines. The highest elected position Rotzler has attained is deputy mayor of New Paltz, New York, which has a population of around 7000. It is hard to argue that this is a "major local figure" per the WP:NPOL guideline.
Arguments have however been presented that Rotzler is notable anyway due to media coverage under the WP:GNG. Some of this is behind a paywall, but my review of the material that is there indicates that while these arguments are in good faith, they are not thoroughly convincing. The articles cited in the article are local news stories, some which merely cover Rotzler's participation in a political debate. In this discussion sources were presented showing that she was an early pioneer in officiating same-sex marriages well before this had become widely accepted. But also this is at a very localized scale, and even there the coverage of her is minor.
As such, the consensus here is that the subject meets neither the specialized WP:NPOL nor the general WP:GNG criterion. Sjakkalle (Check!) 16:34, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Rebecca Rotzler
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- Rebecca Rotzler ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Being a deputy mayor of a small town/village does not warrant presumed notability under NPOL. Neither does being a national party co-chair. All of the article's sources (as of this posting) are either WP:PRIMARY or containing only trivial coverage of the subject. After exploring multiple search engines, per WP:BEFORE, I could not locate any WP:RS-compliant sourcing that would satisfy the notability guidelines. Sal2100 ( talk) 18:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and New York. Sal2100 ( talk) 18:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Seems notable, I think WP:GNG is satisfied due to the following:
- "Along with Mayor Jason West and his appointed deputy, trustee Rebecca Rotzler, Walsh gained international notoriety this year for promoting same-sex weddings in New Paltz." Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jul 27). New paltz trustee leaves greens. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-paltz-trustee-leaves-greens/docview/436614502/se-2
- She is the subject of this article: Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jun 16). Deputy mayor to OK same-sex nuptials. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/deputy-mayor-ok-same-sex-nuptials/docview/436616100/se-2
- She's mentioned in a bunch of other things, not exactly significant coverage, but more than passing mentions:
- Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jan 14). New paltz board backs off pay hike. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-paltz-board-backs-off-pay-hike/docview/436597808/se-2
- Wasserman, G. (2003, Jun 03). New board sweeps out attorney. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-board-sweeps-out-attorney/docview/436573280/se-2
- I note every article about is by the same author in the local same paper, the Poughkeepsie Journal, but my assessment is that it is a reliable source. CT55555 ( talk) 18:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep, a deputy mayor is not necessarily notable, but given the Poughkeepsie Journal, which is a newspaper founded in 1785 and now owned by Gannett, and a few other mentions in mostly local papers, with headlines like "deputy mayor presides over gay weddings." The mentions are minor but I think her same-sex marriage thing got her some coverage that wasn't just passing. Andre 🚐 18:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep per
WP:BASIC and the national coverage she has received, e.g.
Green tide sweeps into New Paltz, N.Y. (CS Monitor, 2003, more than a passing mention due to context and some biographical information),
Mayor With A Mission (NYT Magazine, Mar. 28, 2004, apparent coverage in the context of a focus on West, but subscription blocked),
Christian Science teacher banned after lesbian marriage (AP/Boston.com, June 25, 2004, more than a passing mention due to context). There is also local coverage, with contributions from the AP:
Judge bars New Paltz officials from presiding at gay weddings (Daily Freeman, June 25, 2004, more than passing mention due to context). There appears to be non-routine political coverage to help support notability from multiple sources over time, including national coverage, which could be used to further develop the article. Per
WP:GNG fn4,
a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source
, but broader coverage is available. Beccaynr ( talk) 20:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)- Comment - The NYT magazine article only has a couple of passing mentions of Rotzler; it shouldn't count towards notability.
Hatman31 (
talk)
21:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you - based on my research, it looks like a paragraph could be added to this article about her role related to gay marriage (and the litigation) in the era before
Obergefell v. Hodges, and the NYT article may help provide context for article development.
Beccaynr (
talk)
01:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- I am able to view the NYT article today, and I agree that there is not much, (e.g. "Despite encouragement from local Greens, West and Rebecca Rotzler, who works at the county Board of Education, along with Julia Walsh, a New Paltz student activist, were all still reluctant to run for the three board seats. But then President Bush went to war in Iraq.") but there seems to be more than a passing mention, and it seems to fit with other national reporting on her political career development that could help further develop the article. Beccaynr ( talk) 02:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you - based on my research, it looks like a paragraph could be added to this article about her role related to gay marriage (and the litigation) in the era before
Obergefell v. Hodges, and the NYT article may help provide context for article development.
Beccaynr (
talk)
01:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - The NYT magazine article only has a couple of passing mentions of Rotzler; it shouldn't count towards notability.
Hatman31 (
talk)
21:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete What we have is an interesting individual, with a smattering of independent coverage, but no significant coverage about her life or her policies while in office. Fails WP:NPOL. The coverage in all of the sourcing (about the subject) is similar - passing mentions or maybe a line about her work and connection with the mayor, Jason West, who was the focus of most of the coverage. Even the article "Deputy mayor to OK same-sex nuptials" only contains one line about the subject "Deputy Mayor Rebecca Rotzler is scheduled to certify same-sex marriages Saturday." There is no obvious redirect target. -- Enos733 ( talk) 19:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Small town (population 7,324) municipal employee fails WP:NPOL. "Deputy mayor" is far from an inherently notable position, especially for a town with a population this small. Local coverage just doesn't cut it. Novemberjazz 23:29, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - I don't think any of the sources presented have significant coverage on Rotzler; just a sentence or two mentioning her at most. Hatman31 ( talk) 22:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails per WP:NPOL. Notable sourcing by itself does not count as significant coverage and is not sufficient to justify existence of article given the nature of the passing mentions in those sources. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 05:32, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete The keep argument above is that someone who has regularly gotten one of her friends to write an article about her to fill out copy in a local paper is notable. I rather find that all significant coverage being from a single local paper (and all written by the same person) establishes that she does not fulfill the GNG. Rockphed ( talk) 17:59, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Jason West, to whom she was the deputy. The article and West mentions the same-sex marriage officiations, and can easily accommodate the words "along with his deputy mayor Rebecca Rotzler". BD2412 T 05:19, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - holder of public office, notable as chair of the Green Party (United States), a federal level political party.-- PiccklePiclePikel ( talk) 13:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Fails per
WP:NPOL.
Bruxton (
talk)
16:04, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Meets
WP:POL per "was a New York State delegate to the Green National Committee" which is representing the whole state of New York for a party at the federal level.
PiccklePiclePikel (
talk)
18:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean to cite POL the policy page? If you meant NPOL I am not finding allowances in the guideline for delegates and party chairs.
Bruxton (
talk)
21:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Yes I meant NPOL indeed. I thought about it as such: she is a delegate to a body representing the green party at a national level. Therefore she is an official representative for a group pf people, (green party constituents in New York) and represents them within the grouping that is at a nation wide level. She represents New York state-wide, just not everyone in New York but just Green party voters in New York. PiccklePiclePikel ( talk) 22:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Bruxton is correct in saying that they "(are) not finding allowances in the (NPOL) guideline for delegates and party chairs". As I referenced in the nomination statement with the link to the discussion that established consensus on this matter, NPOL does not confer presumed notability on national/state party chairs, and there is ample precedent for the articles of national state/party chairs (who did not meet WP:GNG) being deleted. Sal2100 ( talk) 19:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean to cite POL the policy page? If you meant NPOL I am not finding allowances in the guideline for delegates and party chairs.
Bruxton (
talk)
21:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Meets
WP:POL per "was a New York State delegate to the Green National Committee" which is representing the whole state of New York for a party at the federal level.
PiccklePiclePikel (
talk)
18:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comments. Because I was a candidate for the exact same office in the past, I am not going to !vote, but I feel the starter of an article needs a lot of work to improve the citations. Bearian ( talk) 19:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I agree that this person fails WP:NPOL and is not otherwise generally notable. The town is just too small and the coverage is too minor. PopoDameron ( talk) 23:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete regrettably does not meet the NPOL guideline. Lightburst ( talk) 01:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. There is a clear majority for deletion, and the argument is reasonably well grounded in the guidelines. The highest elected position Rotzler has attained is deputy mayor of New Paltz, New York, which has a population of around 7000. It is hard to argue that this is a "major local figure" per the WP:NPOL guideline.
Arguments have however been presented that Rotzler is notable anyway due to media coverage under the WP:GNG. Some of this is behind a paywall, but my review of the material that is there indicates that while these arguments are in good faith, they are not thoroughly convincing. The articles cited in the article are local news stories, some which merely cover Rotzler's participation in a political debate. In this discussion sources were presented showing that she was an early pioneer in officiating same-sex marriages well before this had become widely accepted. But also this is at a very localized scale, and even there the coverage of her is minor.
As such, the consensus here is that the subject meets neither the specialized WP:NPOL nor the general WP:GNG criterion. Sjakkalle (Check!) 16:34, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Rebecca Rotzler
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Rebecca Rotzler ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Being a deputy mayor of a small town/village does not warrant presumed notability under NPOL. Neither does being a national party co-chair. All of the article's sources (as of this posting) are either WP:PRIMARY or containing only trivial coverage of the subject. After exploring multiple search engines, per WP:BEFORE, I could not locate any WP:RS-compliant sourcing that would satisfy the notability guidelines. Sal2100 ( talk) 18:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and New York. Sal2100 ( talk) 18:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Seems notable, I think WP:GNG is satisfied due to the following:
- "Along with Mayor Jason West and his appointed deputy, trustee Rebecca Rotzler, Walsh gained international notoriety this year for promoting same-sex weddings in New Paltz." Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jul 27). New paltz trustee leaves greens. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-paltz-trustee-leaves-greens/docview/436614502/se-2
- She is the subject of this article: Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jun 16). Deputy mayor to OK same-sex nuptials. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/deputy-mayor-ok-same-sex-nuptials/docview/436616100/se-2
- She's mentioned in a bunch of other things, not exactly significant coverage, but more than passing mentions:
- Wasserman, G. J. (2004, Jan 14). New paltz board backs off pay hike. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-paltz-board-backs-off-pay-hike/docview/436597808/se-2
- Wasserman, G. (2003, Jun 03). New board sweeps out attorney. The Poughkeepsie Journal Retrieved from https://www.proquest.com/newspapers/new-board-sweeps-out-attorney/docview/436573280/se-2
- I note every article about is by the same author in the local same paper, the Poughkeepsie Journal, but my assessment is that it is a reliable source. CT55555 ( talk) 18:49, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep, a deputy mayor is not necessarily notable, but given the Poughkeepsie Journal, which is a newspaper founded in 1785 and now owned by Gannett, and a few other mentions in mostly local papers, with headlines like "deputy mayor presides over gay weddings." The mentions are minor but I think her same-sex marriage thing got her some coverage that wasn't just passing. Andre 🚐 18:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Keep per
WP:BASIC and the national coverage she has received, e.g.
Green tide sweeps into New Paltz, N.Y. (CS Monitor, 2003, more than a passing mention due to context and some biographical information),
Mayor With A Mission (NYT Magazine, Mar. 28, 2004, apparent coverage in the context of a focus on West, but subscription blocked),
Christian Science teacher banned after lesbian marriage (AP/Boston.com, June 25, 2004, more than a passing mention due to context). There is also local coverage, with contributions from the AP:
Judge bars New Paltz officials from presiding at gay weddings (Daily Freeman, June 25, 2004, more than passing mention due to context). There appears to be non-routine political coverage to help support notability from multiple sources over time, including national coverage, which could be used to further develop the article. Per
WP:GNG fn4,
a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source
, but broader coverage is available. Beccaynr ( talk) 20:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)- Comment - The NYT magazine article only has a couple of passing mentions of Rotzler; it shouldn't count towards notability.
Hatman31 (
talk)
21:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you - based on my research, it looks like a paragraph could be added to this article about her role related to gay marriage (and the litigation) in the era before
Obergefell v. Hodges, and the NYT article may help provide context for article development.
Beccaynr (
talk)
01:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- I am able to view the NYT article today, and I agree that there is not much, (e.g. "Despite encouragement from local Greens, West and Rebecca Rotzler, who works at the county Board of Education, along with Julia Walsh, a New Paltz student activist, were all still reluctant to run for the three board seats. But then President Bush went to war in Iraq.") but there seems to be more than a passing mention, and it seems to fit with other national reporting on her political career development that could help further develop the article. Beccaynr ( talk) 02:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you - based on my research, it looks like a paragraph could be added to this article about her role related to gay marriage (and the litigation) in the era before
Obergefell v. Hodges, and the NYT article may help provide context for article development.
Beccaynr (
talk)
01:27, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - The NYT magazine article only has a couple of passing mentions of Rotzler; it shouldn't count towards notability.
Hatman31 (
talk)
21:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete What we have is an interesting individual, with a smattering of independent coverage, but no significant coverage about her life or her policies while in office. Fails WP:NPOL. The coverage in all of the sourcing (about the subject) is similar - passing mentions or maybe a line about her work and connection with the mayor, Jason West, who was the focus of most of the coverage. Even the article "Deputy mayor to OK same-sex nuptials" only contains one line about the subject "Deputy Mayor Rebecca Rotzler is scheduled to certify same-sex marriages Saturday." There is no obvious redirect target. -- Enos733 ( talk) 19:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Small town (population 7,324) municipal employee fails WP:NPOL. "Deputy mayor" is far from an inherently notable position, especially for a town with a population this small. Local coverage just doesn't cut it. Novemberjazz 23:29, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - I don't think any of the sources presented have significant coverage on Rotzler; just a sentence or two mentioning her at most. Hatman31 ( talk) 22:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails per WP:NPOL. Notable sourcing by itself does not count as significant coverage and is not sufficient to justify existence of article given the nature of the passing mentions in those sources. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 05:32, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete The keep argument above is that someone who has regularly gotten one of her friends to write an article about her to fill out copy in a local paper is notable. I rather find that all significant coverage being from a single local paper (and all written by the same person) establishes that she does not fulfill the GNG. Rockphed ( talk) 17:59, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
- Redirect to Jason West, to whom she was the deputy. The article and West mentions the same-sex marriage officiations, and can easily accommodate the words "along with his deputy mayor Rebecca Rotzler". BD2412 T 05:19, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - holder of public office, notable as chair of the Green Party (United States), a federal level political party.-- PiccklePiclePikel ( talk) 13:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Fails per
WP:NPOL.
Bruxton (
talk)
16:04, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Meets
WP:POL per "was a New York State delegate to the Green National Committee" which is representing the whole state of New York for a party at the federal level.
PiccklePiclePikel (
talk)
18:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean to cite POL the policy page? If you meant NPOL I am not finding allowances in the guideline for delegates and party chairs.
Bruxton (
talk)
21:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Yes I meant NPOL indeed. I thought about it as such: she is a delegate to a body representing the green party at a national level. Therefore she is an official representative for a group pf people, (green party constituents in New York) and represents them within the grouping that is at a nation wide level. She represents New York state-wide, just not everyone in New York but just Green party voters in New York. PiccklePiclePikel ( talk) 22:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Bruxton is correct in saying that they "(are) not finding allowances in the (NPOL) guideline for delegates and party chairs". As I referenced in the nomination statement with the link to the discussion that established consensus on this matter, NPOL does not confer presumed notability on national/state party chairs, and there is ample precedent for the articles of national state/party chairs (who did not meet WP:GNG) being deleted. Sal2100 ( talk) 19:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean to cite POL the policy page? If you meant NPOL I am not finding allowances in the guideline for delegates and party chairs.
Bruxton (
talk)
21:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Meets
WP:POL per "was a New York State delegate to the Green National Committee" which is representing the whole state of New York for a party at the federal level.
PiccklePiclePikel (
talk)
18:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Comments. Because I was a candidate for the exact same office in the past, I am not going to !vote, but I feel the starter of an article needs a lot of work to improve the citations. Bearian ( talk) 19:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I agree that this person fails WP:NPOL and is not otherwise generally notable. The town is just too small and the coverage is too minor. PopoDameron ( talk) 23:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete regrettably does not meet the NPOL guideline. Lightburst ( talk) 01:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.