The result was keep, despite nonsense from socks, there's enough evidence that he meets WP:BIO according to the arguments -- Samir धर्म 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC) reply
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May fail WP:BIO and seems pretty certainly to conflict with WP:VAIN Seidenstud 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC) reply
If he was not notable then he would not be participating in such a reputed program in kerala! I feel like a fool in having to show you such links to make you and others believe that pradip is one of the most popular singers of Kerala who is very very busy. (Are the knowledge of the respectable Admin's in Music and Musicians of Kerala worth it?) What more is there to prove?? -- Gluewhale 09:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
The above link will prove the contention on "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pradipsomasundaran ( talk • contribs)
Finally, Pradeep Somasundaran's google hits show it to be 901. But on further inspection, there are just about a dozen sites which really mention this guy. -- Ageo020 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC) reply
With due respect for the pain the administrators and other wiki evangelists take to maintain this, Let me note my comments on the matter. let me state that we are not in here to fight, but to determine the credibility of the article and person in question. Please note the points below, that I would like to present for your kind perusal.
These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.
-- Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.-- 59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC) reply
I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.
A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.
( http://en.wikipedia.org./wiki/Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!
Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)
of his achievements are as below.
competetion
Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.
JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award
song"Ennakkaruppin"
Albums.
performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.
is satisfied as he has won three such awards.
in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm
international stature and varied interests!
major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.
without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.
Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info?
do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!
Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.
Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC) reply
No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. -- 59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT
From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop -- 59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC) reply
His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.
George Philip-Dubai-On leave-- 59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)— reply
says that:
Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:
Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers
A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
An independent biography
Name recognition
says that:
Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.
So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.
He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.
Mad Max:-- 59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.
That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Wikipedia. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.
Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!
However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. -- Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! -- Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
- Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here. - But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article. - Also some other article created by pradip are en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malayalam_playback_singers. - I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.-- RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
With Due respect, I disagree to some points noted above.
1. user User:pradipsomasundaran is not Pradip himself. I had contacted him enquiring this earlir and he has confirmed this. I know that it is not a fair practice, and I have checked that out at the first place. As he is a teacher, I wouldnt have had to collect and add the informatiion in Pradip Somasundaran today. Whoever created the page used his name as his id.
2. Unregistered IPs does not denote Socks. Most of the people who comes by and participate in this discussion does not know that you need to sighn with a login. South India is not much wiki literate yet. I dont think a normal user knows to IP spoofing or chainings.
3. BlueValour, I dont think many indian wikipedians knows Taranath Rao too. (No offence intented). everyone will have their area of interests and knowledge base. India, especially South India is not much wiki literate yet. People hear about wikipedia, when they get out of the state or country. Wiki norms does not require you to win the international recogintion. Also he is definitely way famous than Prof. R. Bindu.
Comment: Even Prof. Bindu is not a Professor. She is a just a selection Grade lecturer(Professor post does not exist in colleges. only in universities as per UGC norms)and a petty local body politician Who the hell actually gave permission for such irrelevant articles. The admin's should resign for this!
Ron, I have added the list of songs he has sung. Please take a look. I accept that talent does not get you there. I suppose you misread my statement.
Thanks.-- Jyothis 09:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Musicians and ensembles There are a lot of bands, singers and other musicians and musical ensembles with articles in the Wikipedia (see Category:Musicians).
Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.
He satisfies all the above requirements SO IS HIGHLY NOTABLE. So why have you put this article for deletion in the first place? So close this matter now. All other personal likes and dislikes like whether he was popular before, is popular now or will be in future, is nonsense as THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES TO GUIDE US ON THIS. So all personal references like "I have not heard this guy", "he should have won all major competetions in India", etc. do not hold any ground at all.
Hope the more mature and experienced Admins/mods like Seidenstud & Alphachimp show maturity and take this off from the deletion page without delay-- Gluewhale 08:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment. I'm really alarmed by the level of
sockpuppetry on this page. If at all possible, I'd like to solicit the opinions of more Wikipedians by extending this debate for another day or so.
alphaChimp
laudare
14:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
reply
Hi All,
Please read the given below sentence is from NDTV message borad. First read it.
Re: Best Indian Music Director - Sent By: reemakaran (jaipur,india) i am not agree with ur choice abt ilaya coz i never heard abt ilaya raja so how can u say that ilaya raja is best indian music director [ http://www.ndtv.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=333&tablename=Music&id=565946 ]
I think now some wikipedia users behave like this sender. Coz i never heard abt Pradip so how can u say?
Don’t be behaving like this! A real wiki pedia user who interested in music should know about all singers. He is really a good singer. He is really multitalented like a Teacher in Electronics dept and a singer.
we can never compare him with Yesudas or MG Sreekumar. And he is not a notable Play back singer. But he is a notable singer. And he deserved for this article.
I never say to delete this article.
But need modification. I think there is no need of maximize the article with his all details. And maximum try to minimize the article with necessary details.
Rgds Jothishkumart 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
I don't like to address a perticular user. I felt some users behaving like that. Don't confuse with user jyothis and jothishkumart. I am user jothishkumart . Jothishkumart 06:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
TinTin,Alpha Chimp,Mods, I am a malayalam wikibooks Contributor. I agree that I dont do things here. You can see my work here Sorry that I did not mention it earlier. Thanks. -- Jyothis 15:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment Alpha Chimp. This is not an article about a Mozart or a Beethoven, only about a singer who now as seen from the info and various comments is notable through his awards and T.v programs. So even if there are socks they have been very informative and have countered vague arguments very well. So I think they can be excused.I think we should give the credit to Jyothis who has compiled the facts. Tintin I think this writeup is not too big. Have see many huge articles like here. Eric Clapton, and here Jayachandran(which is more hearsay,over descriptive and not neutral. It also smacks of hero worship). Also since the credibility of this person was in question, Jyothis did the right thing by making the article more comprehensive, and wiki friendly.He has laid out only the facts and information about this singer who has been mis-understood by many wikipedians who are not in Kerala.After all this is our job, bringing out the truth and compelling the people who want such articles to be published to be more accurate. So now Admins please go after the Amit Sanas, Prof. Bindu's and such people. let the people who started this article heave a sigh of relief and improve upon it. Enough time has been spent already debating on this. Admin's take a decision now without going for the extra day.-- Gluewhale 15:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
YOU HAVE FAKED TO BE AN ADMIN WHEN YOU ARE NOT. YOUR EXISTENCE IN WIKI IS ONLY FROM MARCH 2006.
Hi! I noticed on your user page that you identify yourself as an admin. Since you aren't an admin, I strongly suggest you remove you the box. JoshuaZ 19:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, please explain why you made the claim. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
About my page in which i made an admin claim, I'm sorry. I just copied that section from another user's page. I line checked the code but i think i may have overseen this. Really sorry if this caused any trouble. Thanks User:Ageo020 --Ageo020 00:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Its ok. Don't worry about it. JoshuaZ 01:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
You do not have any basic knowledge of wiki! You have made all silly references like 1) 1000 hits in google to be a playback singer 2) Close up Antakshari being a music talent show.
From your Quote "" *Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil
This was your silly comment in the begening where you wanted this person to win all singing competetions in India (Are you his mentor?)
You said you have not heard him. What importance does this have here on this discussion. You might not have heard about many persons. That shows your ignorance and arrogance not knowledge.You do not have any proven competance in music to prove professional competence of this person. This has been already done by the people who gave him so many awards and made him sing in so many films, albums, T.V shows and live shows in India and abroad. This is not your job. Your job was to see whether the article satisfies wiki norms and you had no business to poke into competance and poularity polls. YOU DID NOT DO YOUR JOB IMPARTIALLY AND WITH NEUTRALITY. Thousands of malayalees including admins here know him and have heard him. Now you want to shut their voices by this last ditch futile attempt? There is also a complaint that you sent anonymous hate mails to the singer's blog and some nasty campaigns making this a personal war. We have proof that you sent personal invitation to other wikipedians from your page to help you in this hate campaign which is below the dignity of any wikipedian. You do not have any right to do so. Your actions speak for your sick mind!
Ageo's actions from his talk page and from the page of user pradipsomasundaran
Quote
This is a message to all Category:Kerala Wikipedians
I want your opinion on this particular person Pradip Somasundaran. He claims to be a famous singer in Kerala. Now being a Malayalee, I have not heard of this person before, so I wonder whether or not you have heard of him before and set this issue straight. If so, then please let your opinion be counted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pradip Somasundaran. Please note that by voicing your opinion as a Malayalee/Keralite will add more weight to your words.
Many Thanks --Ageo020 21:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey PS Yes, you are right. I have not lived in Kerala in the past 2 years. That doesn't mean I am not familiar with it. Now Amrita TV is not a TV channel watched by the masses. They watch Surya, Asianet or Kairali. If you have been seen on this channel, it means to me in my biased opinion that you are not too famous to have an article in wikipedia. Also remember that there are many singers who have cut their own records. That doesn't mean they have to have an article too.
Plus I am a frequent listener to malayalam film songs and I have certainly not heard of you. Do not waste your time ranting about whether the article should be deleted or not. Instead focus your energy on singing and becoming famous and then having someone else to have an article written about you. This letter may make you more angry, but I am sorry.
Ave --Ageo020 03:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Unquote
I found these messages on your page and on the person impersonating as user pradipsomasundaran. These clearly show your immature dirty mind and illegal actions. This also proves that all your comments are biased as you yourselves have admitted to this here! You have used abusive language with intent to disgrace defame and provocating a person. If the real Pradip Somasundaran finds this out you will cut a very sorry figure for yourselves! This is enough to file a case against you in the arbitration section man!
Admins: Remove this person soon. He is a disgrace to wiki. He is just an editor(counter vandalism unit member?) and claimed to be an Admin with an Admin box on his page which was removed when some one reported this. He also is a novice who started editing in March 2006 and yest behaves as if he is the owner of wiki.
The outcome of this this discussion will be decided on merit not your ego! After this is over your actions will be reported to the arbitration committe. Except you all the other people who have commented, including admins have behaved sensibly with reason and dignity.
All your silly arguments have been put to rest by many many of the people who commented here. Now that you do not have anything to say, rather than replying to the observations you become a mouth for some other admin and be a cry baby and say that "hey, all the supporters are fake!" You have not replied to the Amit Sana issue so far. Why are you showing double standards?" When you started spreading lies did you expect others to be quiet? Now you will tell that even the other admins are socks. This is a futile futile attempt again. Where were you all this time?
Let's stop trying to disprove the already proven celebrity status of one of the most talented young singers of kerala who still has a long way to go. No other singer in kerala sings so well in so many languages and so many styles! He does not have many film songs but he is not retired and is only around 40. He is also very active as a singer with many programs. There is nothing we or he can gain or loose in this unnessary debate. Let's show maturity. Enough material proof has been provided by many for his credibility. He satisfies more than one criterion for an article here.
Have you all editors and mods from kerala seen how many singers from malayalam have a decent page here? And we call ourselves malayalees??? Only K.J Yesudas has a terific page here in wiki standards. P. Jayachandran also is o.k. But none of the singers gave a good article here! Is it because they all do not have 1000 google hits? Time to stop this silly argument. All the playback singers including kamukara, udayabhanu, unnimenon, venugopal, gayatri, jyotsna, rimi tomi, vidhu pratap, manjari who are loved and adored by lakhs of malayalees do not have a page here! Let pradip's page be an eye-opener to all those who want to take up this issue and make the section of malayalam playback singers strong. Why is it so that malayalees are the biggest "paras" to malayalees?(sorry this usage will be understood by malayalees only. Not in wiki dictionary) Let's all forget personal ego's and get to improving information on all the great playback singers in Malayalam instead of degrading them. I am here to give my sincere contributions to wiki not to degrade any person.-- Gluewhale 01:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Well I have started my contributions with a page on Gayatri Asokan-- Gluewhale 07:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Thanks. -- Jyothis 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
More photos and proofs. If at all we have any 'Real' Mods around, Please see this.
International Recognitions & Citations
To know more on this program click here > Ship for World Youth program
Above 3 links were added by: -- Gluewhale 17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Meri Awaz Suno
Awards
In the news
Misc
Above 3 additional Links added by -- Gluewhale 10:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
If Alpha Chimp or other admins still feel that I am a sock, I can give my direct contact information. I work in a facility that has stringent security restrictions and background checks including FBI fingerprint verification. I'd be more than happy to prove my identity, if at all I have to.
It is quite sad to see such remarks, as you are tracking the IPs. Also, as I have stated above, I contribute to Malayalam Wikibooks.
-- Jyothis 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Pradip is a well known singer of kerala.He has done many albums in malayalam.And one of the most commenting thing about him is i think no malayalee sings hindi songs as good as him. So there is no need for a deletion. [User:Tharanath R] 04:30, 5 August 2006
Request to the new editors (especially Jyothis and Gluewhale) who added their comments here : Since you all seem very passionate about articles related to Kerala, I wonder whether you guys would like to hang around a little longer in Wikipedia, instead of disappearing the moment this AfD is over. There are not many articles about Kerala and even those which are, are mostly not in a good shape. We could do with a bit of help in improving the articles. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the
Kerala noticeboard. (PS : Just noticed the new article that Gluewhale created yesterday. Thanks)
Tintin (
talk)
14:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
reply
Comment
I end my defense of this article by presenting a comprehensive list of verifiable documents above along with what has been presented by jyothis from various sites which PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that he is a very very notable guy. Not only a great singer of Kerala but a multifaceted talent who has spread his knowledge & talent not only in Indian but also abroad. The Govt. of India has sent him two times abroad to Japan for his talents (we lesser mortals do not even have heard of such programs!). Other than the "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" he has been honoured both in India and abroad two times, one by by the JCI with TOYI and other the Dubai Kairali Kalakendram for his contribution to music. He has won two awards in Kerala too for contribution to music. He also won an International talent competetion. He has done shows abroad and is still actively doing music shows, singing in films, singing in albums, singing in T.v programs, propagating linux, technology in India and abroad. Now what more do you want from this person?
I chanced upon your blog from wikipedia, i have always been a big fan of yours for many many years, i have been following ur singing in "Anjali" in Amrita channel and the hindi songs you render are absolutely brilliant.
Hope to visit your blog more often.
Posted by Praveen to Pradip Ki Awaz Suno at 8/05/2006 11:43:01 PM '
This is just one of the hundreds of comments that I found on his blog today! If a person can find his blog from this article then it should be good enough! The hundreds of comments there prove his popularity as a singer. Kerala is a small state and people of his breed are rare.So he is one of our heroes! Now you decide whether to keep your ego's in tact or to keep this article! We cannot undo a person's contributions by just shouting foul 100 times. Thank you...I retire...from this defence for dignity and justice and hope justice and sanity prevails over false ego's!
"You will not see light if you shut yourselves out in your room. When you come out in the open you will see light! Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"
I do not have anything more to say. -- Gluewhale 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
The result was keep, despite nonsense from socks, there's enough evidence that he meets WP:BIO according to the arguments -- Samir धर्म 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC) reply
![]() |
ATTENTION!
If you came here because somebody asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus amongst Wikipedia editors on whether an article is suitable for this encyclopedia. We have policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting heads (or socks). You can participate and give your opinion. Please
sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Happy editing! |
May fail WP:BIO and seems pretty certainly to conflict with WP:VAIN Seidenstud 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC) reply
If he was not notable then he would not be participating in such a reputed program in kerala! I feel like a fool in having to show you such links to make you and others believe that pradip is one of the most popular singers of Kerala who is very very busy. (Are the knowledge of the respectable Admin's in Music and Musicians of Kerala worth it?) What more is there to prove?? -- Gluewhale 09:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
The above link will prove the contention on "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pradipsomasundaran ( talk • contribs)
Finally, Pradeep Somasundaran's google hits show it to be 901. But on further inspection, there are just about a dozen sites which really mention this guy. -- Ageo020 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC) reply
With due respect for the pain the administrators and other wiki evangelists take to maintain this, Let me note my comments on the matter. let me state that we are not in here to fight, but to determine the credibility of the article and person in question. Please note the points below, that I would like to present for your kind perusal.
These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.
-- Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.-- 59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC) reply
I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.
A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.
( http://en.wikipedia.org./wiki/Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!
Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)
of his achievements are as below.
competetion
Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.
JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award
song"Ennakkaruppin"
Albums.
performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.
is satisfied as he has won three such awards.
in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm
international stature and varied interests!
major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.
without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.
Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info?
do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!
Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.
Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC) reply
No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. -- 59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT
From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop -- 59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC) reply
His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.
George Philip-Dubai-On leave-- 59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)— reply
says that:
Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:
Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers
A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
An independent biography
Name recognition
says that:
Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.
So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.
He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.
Mad Max:-- 59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.
That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Wikipedia. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.
Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!
However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. -- Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! -- Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC) reply
- Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here. - But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article. - Also some other article created by pradip are en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malayalam_playback_singers. - I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.-- RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
With Due respect, I disagree to some points noted above.
1. user User:pradipsomasundaran is not Pradip himself. I had contacted him enquiring this earlir and he has confirmed this. I know that it is not a fair practice, and I have checked that out at the first place. As he is a teacher, I wouldnt have had to collect and add the informatiion in Pradip Somasundaran today. Whoever created the page used his name as his id.
2. Unregistered IPs does not denote Socks. Most of the people who comes by and participate in this discussion does not know that you need to sighn with a login. South India is not much wiki literate yet. I dont think a normal user knows to IP spoofing or chainings.
3. BlueValour, I dont think many indian wikipedians knows Taranath Rao too. (No offence intented). everyone will have their area of interests and knowledge base. India, especially South India is not much wiki literate yet. People hear about wikipedia, when they get out of the state or country. Wiki norms does not require you to win the international recogintion. Also he is definitely way famous than Prof. R. Bindu.
Comment: Even Prof. Bindu is not a Professor. She is a just a selection Grade lecturer(Professor post does not exist in colleges. only in universities as per UGC norms)and a petty local body politician Who the hell actually gave permission for such irrelevant articles. The admin's should resign for this!
Ron, I have added the list of songs he has sung. Please take a look. I accept that talent does not get you there. I suppose you misread my statement.
Thanks.-- Jyothis 09:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Musicians and ensembles There are a lot of bands, singers and other musicians and musical ensembles with articles in the Wikipedia (see Category:Musicians).
Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.
He satisfies all the above requirements SO IS HIGHLY NOTABLE. So why have you put this article for deletion in the first place? So close this matter now. All other personal likes and dislikes like whether he was popular before, is popular now or will be in future, is nonsense as THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES TO GUIDE US ON THIS. So all personal references like "I have not heard this guy", "he should have won all major competetions in India", etc. do not hold any ground at all.
Hope the more mature and experienced Admins/mods like Seidenstud & Alphachimp show maturity and take this off from the deletion page without delay-- Gluewhale 08:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment. I'm really alarmed by the level of
sockpuppetry on this page. If at all possible, I'd like to solicit the opinions of more Wikipedians by extending this debate for another day or so.
alphaChimp
laudare
14:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
reply
Hi All,
Please read the given below sentence is from NDTV message borad. First read it.
Re: Best Indian Music Director - Sent By: reemakaran (jaipur,india) i am not agree with ur choice abt ilaya coz i never heard abt ilaya raja so how can u say that ilaya raja is best indian music director [ http://www.ndtv.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=333&tablename=Music&id=565946 ]
I think now some wikipedia users behave like this sender. Coz i never heard abt Pradip so how can u say?
Don’t be behaving like this! A real wiki pedia user who interested in music should know about all singers. He is really a good singer. He is really multitalented like a Teacher in Electronics dept and a singer.
we can never compare him with Yesudas or MG Sreekumar. And he is not a notable Play back singer. But he is a notable singer. And he deserved for this article.
I never say to delete this article.
But need modification. I think there is no need of maximize the article with his all details. And maximum try to minimize the article with necessary details.
Rgds Jothishkumart 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
I don't like to address a perticular user. I felt some users behaving like that. Don't confuse with user jyothis and jothishkumart. I am user jothishkumart . Jothishkumart 06:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
TinTin,Alpha Chimp,Mods, I am a malayalam wikibooks Contributor. I agree that I dont do things here. You can see my work here Sorry that I did not mention it earlier. Thanks. -- Jyothis 15:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Comment Alpha Chimp. This is not an article about a Mozart or a Beethoven, only about a singer who now as seen from the info and various comments is notable through his awards and T.v programs. So even if there are socks they have been very informative and have countered vague arguments very well. So I think they can be excused.I think we should give the credit to Jyothis who has compiled the facts. Tintin I think this writeup is not too big. Have see many huge articles like here. Eric Clapton, and here Jayachandran(which is more hearsay,over descriptive and not neutral. It also smacks of hero worship). Also since the credibility of this person was in question, Jyothis did the right thing by making the article more comprehensive, and wiki friendly.He has laid out only the facts and information about this singer who has been mis-understood by many wikipedians who are not in Kerala.After all this is our job, bringing out the truth and compelling the people who want such articles to be published to be more accurate. So now Admins please go after the Amit Sanas, Prof. Bindu's and such people. let the people who started this article heave a sigh of relief and improve upon it. Enough time has been spent already debating on this. Admin's take a decision now without going for the extra day.-- Gluewhale 15:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC) reply
YOU HAVE FAKED TO BE AN ADMIN WHEN YOU ARE NOT. YOUR EXISTENCE IN WIKI IS ONLY FROM MARCH 2006.
Hi! I noticed on your user page that you identify yourself as an admin. Since you aren't an admin, I strongly suggest you remove you the box. JoshuaZ 19:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, please explain why you made the claim. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
About my page in which i made an admin claim, I'm sorry. I just copied that section from another user's page. I line checked the code but i think i may have overseen this. Really sorry if this caused any trouble. Thanks User:Ageo020 --Ageo020 00:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Its ok. Don't worry about it. JoshuaZ 01:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
You do not have any basic knowledge of wiki! You have made all silly references like 1) 1000 hits in google to be a playback singer 2) Close up Antakshari being a music talent show.
From your Quote "" *Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil
This was your silly comment in the begening where you wanted this person to win all singing competetions in India (Are you his mentor?)
You said you have not heard him. What importance does this have here on this discussion. You might not have heard about many persons. That shows your ignorance and arrogance not knowledge.You do not have any proven competance in music to prove professional competence of this person. This has been already done by the people who gave him so many awards and made him sing in so many films, albums, T.V shows and live shows in India and abroad. This is not your job. Your job was to see whether the article satisfies wiki norms and you had no business to poke into competance and poularity polls. YOU DID NOT DO YOUR JOB IMPARTIALLY AND WITH NEUTRALITY. Thousands of malayalees including admins here know him and have heard him. Now you want to shut their voices by this last ditch futile attempt? There is also a complaint that you sent anonymous hate mails to the singer's blog and some nasty campaigns making this a personal war. We have proof that you sent personal invitation to other wikipedians from your page to help you in this hate campaign which is below the dignity of any wikipedian. You do not have any right to do so. Your actions speak for your sick mind!
Ageo's actions from his talk page and from the page of user pradipsomasundaran
Quote
This is a message to all Category:Kerala Wikipedians
I want your opinion on this particular person Pradip Somasundaran. He claims to be a famous singer in Kerala. Now being a Malayalee, I have not heard of this person before, so I wonder whether or not you have heard of him before and set this issue straight. If so, then please let your opinion be counted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pradip Somasundaran. Please note that by voicing your opinion as a Malayalee/Keralite will add more weight to your words.
Many Thanks --Ageo020 21:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey PS Yes, you are right. I have not lived in Kerala in the past 2 years. That doesn't mean I am not familiar with it. Now Amrita TV is not a TV channel watched by the masses. They watch Surya, Asianet or Kairali. If you have been seen on this channel, it means to me in my biased opinion that you are not too famous to have an article in wikipedia. Also remember that there are many singers who have cut their own records. That doesn't mean they have to have an article too.
Plus I am a frequent listener to malayalam film songs and I have certainly not heard of you. Do not waste your time ranting about whether the article should be deleted or not. Instead focus your energy on singing and becoming famous and then having someone else to have an article written about you. This letter may make you more angry, but I am sorry.
Ave --Ageo020 03:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Unquote
I found these messages on your page and on the person impersonating as user pradipsomasundaran. These clearly show your immature dirty mind and illegal actions. This also proves that all your comments are biased as you yourselves have admitted to this here! You have used abusive language with intent to disgrace defame and provocating a person. If the real Pradip Somasundaran finds this out you will cut a very sorry figure for yourselves! This is enough to file a case against you in the arbitration section man!
Admins: Remove this person soon. He is a disgrace to wiki. He is just an editor(counter vandalism unit member?) and claimed to be an Admin with an Admin box on his page which was removed when some one reported this. He also is a novice who started editing in March 2006 and yest behaves as if he is the owner of wiki.
The outcome of this this discussion will be decided on merit not your ego! After this is over your actions will be reported to the arbitration committe. Except you all the other people who have commented, including admins have behaved sensibly with reason and dignity.
All your silly arguments have been put to rest by many many of the people who commented here. Now that you do not have anything to say, rather than replying to the observations you become a mouth for some other admin and be a cry baby and say that "hey, all the supporters are fake!" You have not replied to the Amit Sana issue so far. Why are you showing double standards?" When you started spreading lies did you expect others to be quiet? Now you will tell that even the other admins are socks. This is a futile futile attempt again. Where were you all this time?
Let's stop trying to disprove the already proven celebrity status of one of the most talented young singers of kerala who still has a long way to go. No other singer in kerala sings so well in so many languages and so many styles! He does not have many film songs but he is not retired and is only around 40. He is also very active as a singer with many programs. There is nothing we or he can gain or loose in this unnessary debate. Let's show maturity. Enough material proof has been provided by many for his credibility. He satisfies more than one criterion for an article here.
Have you all editors and mods from kerala seen how many singers from malayalam have a decent page here? And we call ourselves malayalees??? Only K.J Yesudas has a terific page here in wiki standards. P. Jayachandran also is o.k. But none of the singers gave a good article here! Is it because they all do not have 1000 google hits? Time to stop this silly argument. All the playback singers including kamukara, udayabhanu, unnimenon, venugopal, gayatri, jyotsna, rimi tomi, vidhu pratap, manjari who are loved and adored by lakhs of malayalees do not have a page here! Let pradip's page be an eye-opener to all those who want to take up this issue and make the section of malayalam playback singers strong. Why is it so that malayalees are the biggest "paras" to malayalees?(sorry this usage will be understood by malayalees only. Not in wiki dictionary) Let's all forget personal ego's and get to improving information on all the great playback singers in Malayalam instead of degrading them. I am here to give my sincere contributions to wiki not to degrade any person.-- Gluewhale 01:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Well I have started my contributions with a page on Gayatri Asokan-- Gluewhale 07:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Thanks. -- Jyothis 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
More photos and proofs. If at all we have any 'Real' Mods around, Please see this.
International Recognitions & Citations
To know more on this program click here > Ship for World Youth program
Above 3 links were added by: -- Gluewhale 17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Meri Awaz Suno
Awards
In the news
Misc
Above 3 additional Links added by -- Gluewhale 10:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
If Alpha Chimp or other admins still feel that I am a sock, I can give my direct contact information. I work in a facility that has stringent security restrictions and background checks including FBI fingerprint verification. I'd be more than happy to prove my identity, if at all I have to.
It is quite sad to see such remarks, as you are tracking the IPs. Also, as I have stated above, I contribute to Malayalam Wikibooks.
-- Jyothis 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply
Pradip is a well known singer of kerala.He has done many albums in malayalam.And one of the most commenting thing about him is i think no malayalee sings hindi songs as good as him. So there is no need for a deletion. [User:Tharanath R] 04:30, 5 August 2006
Request to the new editors (especially Jyothis and Gluewhale) who added their comments here : Since you all seem very passionate about articles related to Kerala, I wonder whether you guys would like to hang around a little longer in Wikipedia, instead of disappearing the moment this AfD is over. There are not many articles about Kerala and even those which are, are mostly not in a good shape. We could do with a bit of help in improving the articles. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the
Kerala noticeboard. (PS : Just noticed the new article that Gluewhale created yesterday. Thanks)
Tintin (
talk)
14:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
reply
Comment
I end my defense of this article by presenting a comprehensive list of verifiable documents above along with what has been presented by jyothis from various sites which PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that he is a very very notable guy. Not only a great singer of Kerala but a multifaceted talent who has spread his knowledge & talent not only in Indian but also abroad. The Govt. of India has sent him two times abroad to Japan for his talents (we lesser mortals do not even have heard of such programs!). Other than the "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" he has been honoured both in India and abroad two times, one by by the JCI with TOYI and other the Dubai Kairali Kalakendram for his contribution to music. He has won two awards in Kerala too for contribution to music. He also won an International talent competetion. He has done shows abroad and is still actively doing music shows, singing in films, singing in albums, singing in T.v programs, propagating linux, technology in India and abroad. Now what more do you want from this person?
I chanced upon your blog from wikipedia, i have always been a big fan of yours for many many years, i have been following ur singing in "Anjali" in Amrita channel and the hindi songs you render are absolutely brilliant.
Hope to visit your blog more often.
Posted by Praveen to Pradip Ki Awaz Suno at 8/05/2006 11:43:01 PM '
This is just one of the hundreds of comments that I found on his blog today! If a person can find his blog from this article then it should be good enough! The hundreds of comments there prove his popularity as a singer. Kerala is a small state and people of his breed are rare.So he is one of our heroes! Now you decide whether to keep your ego's in tact or to keep this article! We cannot undo a person's contributions by just shouting foul 100 times. Thank you...I retire...from this defence for dignity and justice and hope justice and sanity prevails over false ego's!
"You will not see light if you shut yourselves out in your room. When you come out in the open you will see light! Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"
I do not have anything more to say. -- Gluewhale 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC) reply