- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Tone 09:23, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
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- Panjiayu Massacre ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The reason for the deletion is that Panjiayu Massacre may be a fake event.
Checking the page history, I found that the person who created this page has only one purpose.His purpose is to make this page and this historical event.But this page has no reference. It may be my prejudice, but when there is no more reliable reference, I can't believe the point of view from China.
This incident has deepened my prejudice. Witotiwo ( talk) 19:55, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. The fact that it happened, at least, is easily citable in reliable sources [1] [2] [3]. Spinning Spark 01:23, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- In case the nom dismisses your sources because the authors appear to be Chinese, here's a source from the CIA: [4]. Panchiayu=Panjiayu. Timmyshin ( talk) 05:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. ‐‐ 1997kB ( talk) 03:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. ‐‐ 1997kB ( talk) 03:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Since you bring up the matter of the edit history (and inferred purpose) of the creator of this article, I'd point out that your own (short) edit history exhibits some extraordinary features. Anyway, yes, this massacre occurred, regardless of the claims made decades later about a hotel and police in Sweden. Therefore reject the deletion rationale, and at least for now keep this (very poor) article. -- Hoary ( talk) 04:20, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- I think this AFD is only a pretext to raise awareness of the incident in Sweden. Timmyshin ( talk) 05:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, meets WP:GNG, from the sources cited above, also a gsearch of "hebei Massacre 1941" brings up more sources, most are from chinese publications that some may suggest are bias but i have been unable to find any sources that state that this did not ocur. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:36, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Doesn't matter what was the purpose of the creator, the subject has lasting impact. [5] Rzvas ( talk) 16:14, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Satisfies GNG. James500 ( talk) 03:10, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep'. I see multiple google book hits for this, and this Routledge handboox satisfies me in that it is treated as a factual event. In as much as this is a hoax - it would be a notable hoax - and one would expect strong sources backing up this assertion (given the multiple sources treating this as factual) - as opposed to an editor's opinion. Icewhiz ( talk) 11:02, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- I am surprised that we should have an article on the massacre and none on the place where it took place. Currently the article has one source (in Chinese). If it did happen, it is certainly notable, but I cannot judge whether it did.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:39, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Finding sources that even verify existence for small villages outside of Europe and North America is often difficult. Many get nominated and deleted at AfD leading to our populated places articles being heavily skewed. We at least have Panjiayuan Subdistrict. I am surprised that you are unsure of the existence of the event. Do you not find the sources presented in this discussion convincing? Spinning Spark 19:16, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Panjiayuan is completely different from Panjiayu. Panjiayu Village was and still is located in Huoshiying, Fengrun, Tangshan, Hebei, China. There are at least 700,000 villages in China, the majority of them with a population over 1000 and therefore meeting WP:GEOLAND, but the truth is we barely have articles on Chinese towns (like Huoshiying) which typically administer 10-100 villages. Timmyshin ( talk) 21:50, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Sometimes there are multiple places with the same name, and often there are multiple transliterations possible for non-English (and all the more so - non-Latin alphabet) locations - I've seen a few for the massacre (including one word vs. two words - e.g. the Routledge source above uses "Pan Jiayu" and not "Panjiayu"). As for our systemic bias- yes - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shaheed Pir Chandam for instance - this was a small village with fairly ancient, but less notable, shrine. Chandam, though a minor figure, has locations named after him throughout the Indian subcontinent. There are also 4 different spelling variations in English (dam, dram, dan, dran) - and this in a country (Pakistan) where English enjoys an official status. I actually ended up verifying the location of this village on a satellite image through (un sourced) information in the pre-deletion article that described it in relation to other larger towns - and then located the photographed shrine in the satellite image. After verifying the location, with two (in google maps - the road was written different from the town) variant spelling on the one we had in the article + province name / nearby settlement names - we were able to find in the AfD a few sources mentioning this... No Urdu-Wiki entry for this one .... In short - small locations in countries that do not use English and that don't have a very active editor base - often get overlooked. We probably have an entry on almost each ghost town and itty bitty village in the US - but coverage in China or Africa - including larger and older settlements - is much more spotty. Icewhiz ( talk) 14:29, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 ( 🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then ( ping me) 14:13, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Tone 09:23, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Panjiayu Massacre ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The reason for the deletion is that Panjiayu Massacre may be a fake event.
Checking the page history, I found that the person who created this page has only one purpose.His purpose is to make this page and this historical event.But this page has no reference. It may be my prejudice, but when there is no more reliable reference, I can't believe the point of view from China.
This incident has deepened my prejudice. Witotiwo ( talk) 19:55, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. The fact that it happened, at least, is easily citable in reliable sources [1] [2] [3]. Spinning Spark 01:23, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- In case the nom dismisses your sources because the authors appear to be Chinese, here's a source from the CIA: [4]. Panchiayu=Panjiayu. Timmyshin ( talk) 05:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. ‐‐ 1997kB ( talk) 03:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. ‐‐ 1997kB ( talk) 03:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Since you bring up the matter of the edit history (and inferred purpose) of the creator of this article, I'd point out that your own (short) edit history exhibits some extraordinary features. Anyway, yes, this massacre occurred, regardless of the claims made decades later about a hotel and police in Sweden. Therefore reject the deletion rationale, and at least for now keep this (very poor) article. -- Hoary ( talk) 04:20, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- I think this AFD is only a pretext to raise awareness of the incident in Sweden. Timmyshin ( talk) 05:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep, meets WP:GNG, from the sources cited above, also a gsearch of "hebei Massacre 1941" brings up more sources, most are from chinese publications that some may suggest are bias but i have been unable to find any sources that state that this did not ocur. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:36, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Doesn't matter what was the purpose of the creator, the subject has lasting impact. [5] Rzvas ( talk) 16:14, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Satisfies GNG. James500 ( talk) 03:10, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
- Keep'. I see multiple google book hits for this, and this Routledge handboox satisfies me in that it is treated as a factual event. In as much as this is a hoax - it would be a notable hoax - and one would expect strong sources backing up this assertion (given the multiple sources treating this as factual) - as opposed to an editor's opinion. Icewhiz ( talk) 11:02, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- I am surprised that we should have an article on the massacre and none on the place where it took place. Currently the article has one source (in Chinese). If it did happen, it is certainly notable, but I cannot judge whether it did.
Peterkingiron (
talk)
17:39, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Finding sources that even verify existence for small villages outside of Europe and North America is often difficult. Many get nominated and deleted at AfD leading to our populated places articles being heavily skewed. We at least have Panjiayuan Subdistrict. I am surprised that you are unsure of the existence of the event. Do you not find the sources presented in this discussion convincing? Spinning Spark 19:16, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Panjiayuan is completely different from Panjiayu. Panjiayu Village was and still is located in Huoshiying, Fengrun, Tangshan, Hebei, China. There are at least 700,000 villages in China, the majority of them with a population over 1000 and therefore meeting WP:GEOLAND, but the truth is we barely have articles on Chinese towns (like Huoshiying) which typically administer 10-100 villages. Timmyshin ( talk) 21:50, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
- Sometimes there are multiple places with the same name, and often there are multiple transliterations possible for non-English (and all the more so - non-Latin alphabet) locations - I've seen a few for the massacre (including one word vs. two words - e.g. the Routledge source above uses "Pan Jiayu" and not "Panjiayu"). As for our systemic bias- yes - see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shaheed Pir Chandam for instance - this was a small village with fairly ancient, but less notable, shrine. Chandam, though a minor figure, has locations named after him throughout the Indian subcontinent. There are also 4 different spelling variations in English (dam, dram, dan, dran) - and this in a country (Pakistan) where English enjoys an official status. I actually ended up verifying the location of this village on a satellite image through (un sourced) information in the pre-deletion article that described it in relation to other larger towns - and then located the photographed shrine in the satellite image. After verifying the location, with two (in google maps - the road was written different from the town) variant spelling on the one we had in the article + province name / nearby settlement names - we were able to find in the AfD a few sources mentioning this... No Urdu-Wiki entry for this one .... In short - small locations in countries that do not use English and that don't have a very active editor base - often get overlooked. We probably have an entry on almost each ghost town and itty bitty village in the US - but coverage in China or Africa - including larger and older settlements - is much more spotty. Icewhiz ( talk) 14:29, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 ( 🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then ( ping me) 14:13, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.