The result was Delete. socks ignored. RS, V, etc Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 01:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC) reply
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Non notable union. Seems like an Industrial Workers of the World subgroup of little notability. Few real mentions in conventional news sources with one Ottawa Citizen op-ed piece. I consider the article to be a soapbox for something that a few anarchists think is a good idea. Halting traffic on Rideau Street and harassing shop owners does not confer notability -- Samir 08:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP. This article provides basic information about the Panhandlers Union in Ottawa. IT is notable for being a success in the organizational efforts of the IWW in Canada and around the world. Transcona Slim 01:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
This is the second time a group of people with a political axe to grind have gone after the Panhandlers' Union article. The irony is that the Panhandlers' Union was just in the media -- again -- as a result of someone at Ottawa City Hall vandalizing the Panhandlers' Union article, as revealed by the Wikiscanner. I suspect that the person responsible for nominating this article for deletion may in fact not only be the same person who vandalized the article (on behalf of which politician I wouldn't hazard a guess) but also the same person who has been posting death threats on city streets about the union's current organizer (see: http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3216/0000999ok3.jpg).
For those who may not be aware, the Panhandlers' Union in Ottawa has been featured in dozens, perhaps hundreds of newspaper and magazine articles, radio interviews, and television interviews. At least one article regarding the Panhandlers' Union was syndicated internationally and became the Canadian Press "strange story of the week."
I suspect that this AfD is part of an ongoing, organized attempt to attack the Panhandlers' Union and its organizers. SmashTheState 00:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Comment - From what I've read and understood of the article, I am leaning towards "delete". But, before that can any supporters of this article explain to me with some degree of clarity what this thing is. I hardly can understand a word of the lead.
Sarvagnya 05:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
reply
KEEP Re: Samir's comments in the larger discussion, the question is not and never has been of giving every shop of the IWW its own page. The question is of preserving a single page bearing on a group that has had national as well as local Canadian media coverage, and which has direct bearing on the bumpy ride (to put it nicely) of Ottawa's mayor - presumably a notable figure himself, no? This union shop has generated a great deal of discussion, as well as sympathy and hostility, in Ottawa and abroad. It has even provoked vandalism of its wiki page from someone within the mayor's office. If the union shop is of so little import, why is the city going after it? Here are some links to start with, there are others: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=615a7936-caaf-4613-b676-d5635bdb0790 http://www.hour.ca/news/news.aspx?iIDArticle=955 http://www.ottawaxpress.ca/news/brief.aspx?iIDArticle=2828 Feldsparo 16:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
It is an op-ed piece printed in a major city newspaper, so one would think that it refers to a hot button issue in that city (otherwise why print it?). And the Ottawa Xpress, which is available on practically every street corner, boasts a large readership, and is Ottawa's major arts/culture newspaper, is neither "tiny" nor "very alternative" if honestly assessed. Feldsparo 00:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- How many times has someone come along and tried to delete this entry? Is this the third time? Fourth? I don't know about the rest of the planet, but in Ottawa this particular union is getting a lot of press. -- Nik 20:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- This is news in Ottawa. 70.49.133.158 20:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC) Ottawa Resident — 70.49.133.158 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP -- This article is invaluable to Ottawa activists. 99.224.75.237 00:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — 99.224.75.237 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete - doesnt seem notable. Sarvagnya 02:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- How many KEEPs do I have to put here for you guys to understand. The reason that the corporate press is ignoring this is because of conservative right-wing influence on people who want to delete this article. I know for a fact that alternative Ottawa media like Metro and Ottawa X-Press have written at least 3 articles on it, and there is also one major article in Ottawa Citizen. Also like Apples says Andrew Nellis (even if he didn't talk about Ottawa Pandhandlers Union) was on CFRA and in Lowell Green's book. I know it doesn't meet your mainstream standards but this is clearly a major event that is shaking Ottawa even if the media isn't covering it. The reason it should be on Wikipedia is to fight the prejudices of the mainstream even if there has been little coverage! Pro Smith 07:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.139.29.235 ( talk • contribs) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
and so what if I posted multiple times "keep" here! it's right wing "puppets" of the city like you that are ruining organized labour in the city of Ottawa. Damn right I'm telling people to come here and put their votes down in order to protect free speech from fascists like you. Pro Smith 59.139.29.235 04:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Did you read what I wrote? I posted the list of all the news outlets in Ottawa which covered/covers the OPU. I forgot to mention that the op-ed article written by one of the OPU was written in response to an article in the Ottawa Citizen which is no longer available online. The original article was syndicated a week after its release. It was featured in many of the Can-West newspaper including the [Winnipeg Free Press]. Instead of screeching about the rules like a Wikipedia Admin cliché User:Ridernyc why don't you actually read the articles or learn something about Ottawa?--Apples99 16:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apples99 ( talk • contribs) — Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP - the Ottawa Panhandlers Union is a known organization in Ottawa and within a community of street people across the country. Regardless of political biases about whether or not you think this is a desirable organization, it is active, has consistently attracted coverage in community media, and is certainly worthy of an entry in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.24.109 ( talk) 16:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — 64.230.24.109 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP - I don't think there's any set bar for how notable something has to be before it can be included on wikipedia. But first, the article exists. Second, it's been covered by televised and print media. Not all IWW affiliates have been covered by their local media. However, if any organization does something newsworthy enough to be covered multiple times by news outlets and someone takes the time to write an article about it, I don't see why it should be deleted. Wikipedia isn't running out of paper, nor is notability exclusive to US media or non-local media. If anything about this article can be solved through edits, that's what should happen, not deletion. Drvoke 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — Drvoke ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
So what if there are no "reliable" sources that meets your definitions. We have about 10 articles in media that you call "alternative" on top of my op-ed piece in the Citizen and that easily should suffice. Also we live in the city and we are telling you this is a major movement that is dramatically altering the way labour is organized in Ottawa. Listen to the people. But you'll keep on fighting with useless "facts" like the City Journal article didn't even talk about the Panhandlers Union. It talked about Andrew for Christ's sake. I also used the Wikiscanner on the person who nominated this for deletion and found that he is using computers from Ottawa Police Service and Ottawa City Hall. I am not surprised about this political agenda which I am sure is coming from instruction from mayor O'Brien's office. It is Staff Sgt. Samir Bhatnagar who has been a scourge against the street people in the downtown core. I am convinced that this is the person who is trying to delete the article. He is also targeting me in specific because I am from Bangladesh heritage. The union has upward of 34 members now and we will not be stopped by the fascists who are trying to suppress organzied labour and free speech. Pro Smith 59.139.29.235 04:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
I am sure that what Proshanto has uncovered is correct! and we should be applauding him. The deletion of the panhandlers union is part of an organized campaign from municipal council and Ottawa Police Services to smear Andrew's name due to his involvement in Ottawa Copwatch. Recently there have been posters placed on Rideau Street with Andrew's picture and a gun pointed in his mouth that are related to this same campaign of harassment. I am also certain that Sergeant Samir Bhatnagar who was the particular member of Ottawa Police Services to target Proshanto last year was none too happy to help out by putting this article for deletion. Also it looks like the wikipedia administration is trying to stifle opinion on the matter. Proshanto was unfairly blocked from participating here by wikiadministrator Nishkid64. Does anyone know where we can appeal this???
KEEP. This article provides basic information about the Panhandlers Union in Ottawa. This organization is notable, both in the mainstream and alternative Ottawa and Canadian media and among community organizations and activists in Ottawa and Ontario. It is the only Canadian organization of its kind, and while small, it provides a valuable window into an initiative that has street people organizing themselves in the face of a hostile mayor, hostile media, hostile law and courts system. I am concerned by the reference fetishism I see in this debate. The number of citations available online should not be a criteria for deleting valuable information such as this entry, particularly from an online encyclopedia whose goal is to be open and accessible to all. Mooremedia 08:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — Mooremedia ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete. In general, WP:ORG says that organizations that are local in scope are generally not notable. This organization appears to have gotten no more than the amount of press one would expect for a small, local organization, and none of it indicates that the organization is important outside of Ottawa. I don't think this organization meets the notability criteria. I would point out to the single supporter with the many accounts that this is not a vote, and that her personal attacks and empty rhetoric make it more likely, not less likely, that people will be inclined to delete. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 11:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Keep, notable enough for me. Murderbike 17:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Keep, I feel that notably has been proved through the listed media sources. We have two editors repeating the same arguments despite contradictory evidence. I am from the US, have been to Canada only breifly, yet have heard of the OPU numerous times. Of course word of mouth, really a much truer judge of notability than corporate owned media, could never meet the standards you're seeking to judge by. Joseph_Lapp 21:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
I dug up this article from Centretown News (Odd isn't it how some of my references actually have entries on Wikipedia but still aren't notable). This article mentions Nellis and the panhandlers Union. More notability for you: Panhandling emerges as a top safety issue. This is also proof that panhandling is indeed a hot button issue in Ottawa. --Apples99 23:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Another article from Centretown News. Homeless art vendors stir opposition. This isn't to be confused with an article which appeared in August in the Centretown Buzz about Nellis, the OPU and CopWatch. Are we notable yet? But restricting people to certain areas would rid other areas of the cultural contribution of the vendors, says Task Force member Andrew Nellis, who is also the organizer of the Ottawa Panhandler’s Union. Nellis says he sees the proposal as a replacement for panhandling, and to a way to help get people off the streets --Apples99 23:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)— Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
What is wrong with you people? Centretown news is a local paper in Ottawa published by Carleton University and has more than 7000 readers. Just because it is given away for free you are discounting it. Same with Cityjournal, with over 5000 readers. Just because its free doesn't mean that it's "unreliable". Just because Jane Scharf wrote the articles in the Dominion doesn't mean that it's unreliable. I have unearthed evidence here of a conspiracy involving Ottawa Police Services deleting this article and you wikiadministrators are colluding with them. Andrew has been working hard getting people on the internet to come here and vote this deletion down. This has to count for something! I myself have put down at least 7 votes here because you don't seem to understand that this is a major movement. So what if the sources don't reference the panhandlers union. So what if I'm just a homeless guy who can't walk who grew up in the ghettos of Blackburn Hamlet. Supporting the establishment like this is a disgrace to Ottawa. Andrew is a true hero for the working man. He has gotten so many people on the internet to come here and vote to keep this article. I have been trying to get the street people of Ottawa to come here but there is so few access to free computers. So just because there are no "RELIABLE SOURCES" as defined by you doesn't mean that this shouldn't be deleted! Just because there are no CONVENTIONAL MEDIA covering this doesn't mean that the people are not talking! We are notable! We have over 34 members. I am writing to CJOH TV and telling them about Bhatnagar and O'Brien colluding in this matter. Pro Smith 62.149.18.100 05:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)— 62.149.18.100 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete: Not notable, also badly written. Suva Чего? 07:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP - I don't really know much about the IWW but it looks like there is a sufficient number of people, many from Ottawa itself, who believe it is worthy of being on Wikipedia. Perhaps needs some editing however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.212.201 ( talk) 11:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC) — 81.86.212.201 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
We keep getting drive-by "deletes" from people who have absolutely no knowledge of the subject being discussed, which is par for the course on Wikipedia, but looking at the user pages of people who are posting "keeps" reveals they all have an interest in labour politics and activism. Should this not tell you something? I've used the example of chemistry and physics, in which it would not be expected for a sub-atomic particle or chemical substance to get a lot of (or ANY) media coverage, yet be notable within its own field. Even dismissing the fact that there has been large amounts of media coverage of the Ottawa Panhandlers Union, since certain people seem curiously blind to any evidence of it, it is STILL notable WITHIN ITS OWN FIELD. You would be hard-pressed to find an anti-poverty activist who has not at least heard of the Ottawa Panhandlers' Union. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a popularity contest. Since some of you folks gaming the system seem so fond of quoting Wikipedia policy, might I refer you to Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia? SmashTheState 17:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP: Poverty issues in Canada are already too marginalized, every information source is needed. Anti-poverty groups especially are frequently ignored by the mainstream media, yet their actions are significant. We can help fix that here in Wikipedia. Panhandler's Union is a worthwhile group within Ottawa to recognize. Pbock 19:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)— Pbock ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
The result was Delete. socks ignored. RS, V, etc Blnguyen ( bananabucket) 01:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC) reply
![]() | If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
Non notable union. Seems like an Industrial Workers of the World subgroup of little notability. Few real mentions in conventional news sources with one Ottawa Citizen op-ed piece. I consider the article to be a soapbox for something that a few anarchists think is a good idea. Halting traffic on Rideau Street and harassing shop owners does not confer notability -- Samir 08:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP. This article provides basic information about the Panhandlers Union in Ottawa. IT is notable for being a success in the organizational efforts of the IWW in Canada and around the world. Transcona Slim 01:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
This is the second time a group of people with a political axe to grind have gone after the Panhandlers' Union article. The irony is that the Panhandlers' Union was just in the media -- again -- as a result of someone at Ottawa City Hall vandalizing the Panhandlers' Union article, as revealed by the Wikiscanner. I suspect that the person responsible for nominating this article for deletion may in fact not only be the same person who vandalized the article (on behalf of which politician I wouldn't hazard a guess) but also the same person who has been posting death threats on city streets about the union's current organizer (see: http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3216/0000999ok3.jpg).
For those who may not be aware, the Panhandlers' Union in Ottawa has been featured in dozens, perhaps hundreds of newspaper and magazine articles, radio interviews, and television interviews. At least one article regarding the Panhandlers' Union was syndicated internationally and became the Canadian Press "strange story of the week."
I suspect that this AfD is part of an ongoing, organized attempt to attack the Panhandlers' Union and its organizers. SmashTheState 00:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Comment - From what I've read and understood of the article, I am leaning towards "delete". But, before that can any supporters of this article explain to me with some degree of clarity what this thing is. I hardly can understand a word of the lead.
Sarvagnya 05:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
reply
KEEP Re: Samir's comments in the larger discussion, the question is not and never has been of giving every shop of the IWW its own page. The question is of preserving a single page bearing on a group that has had national as well as local Canadian media coverage, and which has direct bearing on the bumpy ride (to put it nicely) of Ottawa's mayor - presumably a notable figure himself, no? This union shop has generated a great deal of discussion, as well as sympathy and hostility, in Ottawa and abroad. It has even provoked vandalism of its wiki page from someone within the mayor's office. If the union shop is of so little import, why is the city going after it? Here are some links to start with, there are others: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=615a7936-caaf-4613-b676-d5635bdb0790 http://www.hour.ca/news/news.aspx?iIDArticle=955 http://www.ottawaxpress.ca/news/brief.aspx?iIDArticle=2828 Feldsparo 16:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
It is an op-ed piece printed in a major city newspaper, so one would think that it refers to a hot button issue in that city (otherwise why print it?). And the Ottawa Xpress, which is available on practically every street corner, boasts a large readership, and is Ottawa's major arts/culture newspaper, is neither "tiny" nor "very alternative" if honestly assessed. Feldsparo 00:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- How many times has someone come along and tried to delete this entry? Is this the third time? Fourth? I don't know about the rest of the planet, but in Ottawa this particular union is getting a lot of press. -- Nik 20:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- This is news in Ottawa. 70.49.133.158 20:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC) Ottawa Resident — 70.49.133.158 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP -- This article is invaluable to Ottawa activists. 99.224.75.237 00:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — 99.224.75.237 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete - doesnt seem notable. Sarvagnya 02:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP -- How many KEEPs do I have to put here for you guys to understand. The reason that the corporate press is ignoring this is because of conservative right-wing influence on people who want to delete this article. I know for a fact that alternative Ottawa media like Metro and Ottawa X-Press have written at least 3 articles on it, and there is also one major article in Ottawa Citizen. Also like Apples says Andrew Nellis (even if he didn't talk about Ottawa Pandhandlers Union) was on CFRA and in Lowell Green's book. I know it doesn't meet your mainstream standards but this is clearly a major event that is shaking Ottawa even if the media isn't covering it. The reason it should be on Wikipedia is to fight the prejudices of the mainstream even if there has been little coverage! Pro Smith 07:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.139.29.235 ( talk • contribs) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
and so what if I posted multiple times "keep" here! it's right wing "puppets" of the city like you that are ruining organized labour in the city of Ottawa. Damn right I'm telling people to come here and put their votes down in order to protect free speech from fascists like you. Pro Smith 59.139.29.235 04:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Did you read what I wrote? I posted the list of all the news outlets in Ottawa which covered/covers the OPU. I forgot to mention that the op-ed article written by one of the OPU was written in response to an article in the Ottawa Citizen which is no longer available online. The original article was syndicated a week after its release. It was featured in many of the Can-West newspaper including the [Winnipeg Free Press]. Instead of screeching about the rules like a Wikipedia Admin cliché User:Ridernyc why don't you actually read the articles or learn something about Ottawa?--Apples99 16:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Apples99 ( talk • contribs) — Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP - the Ottawa Panhandlers Union is a known organization in Ottawa and within a community of street people across the country. Regardless of political biases about whether or not you think this is a desirable organization, it is active, has consistently attracted coverage in community media, and is certainly worthy of an entry in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.24.109 ( talk) 16:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — 64.230.24.109 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
KEEP - I don't think there's any set bar for how notable something has to be before it can be included on wikipedia. But first, the article exists. Second, it's been covered by televised and print media. Not all IWW affiliates have been covered by their local media. However, if any organization does something newsworthy enough to be covered multiple times by news outlets and someone takes the time to write an article about it, I don't see why it should be deleted. Wikipedia isn't running out of paper, nor is notability exclusive to US media or non-local media. If anything about this article can be solved through edits, that's what should happen, not deletion. Drvoke 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC) — Drvoke ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
So what if there are no "reliable" sources that meets your definitions. We have about 10 articles in media that you call "alternative" on top of my op-ed piece in the Citizen and that easily should suffice. Also we live in the city and we are telling you this is a major movement that is dramatically altering the way labour is organized in Ottawa. Listen to the people. But you'll keep on fighting with useless "facts" like the City Journal article didn't even talk about the Panhandlers Union. It talked about Andrew for Christ's sake. I also used the Wikiscanner on the person who nominated this for deletion and found that he is using computers from Ottawa Police Service and Ottawa City Hall. I am not surprised about this political agenda which I am sure is coming from instruction from mayor O'Brien's office. It is Staff Sgt. Samir Bhatnagar who has been a scourge against the street people in the downtown core. I am convinced that this is the person who is trying to delete the article. He is also targeting me in specific because I am from Bangladesh heritage. The union has upward of 34 members now and we will not be stopped by the fascists who are trying to suppress organzied labour and free speech. Pro Smith 59.139.29.235 04:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — 59.139.29.235 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
I am sure that what Proshanto has uncovered is correct! and we should be applauding him. The deletion of the panhandlers union is part of an organized campaign from municipal council and Ottawa Police Services to smear Andrew's name due to his involvement in Ottawa Copwatch. Recently there have been posters placed on Rideau Street with Andrew's picture and a gun pointed in his mouth that are related to this same campaign of harassment. I am also certain that Sergeant Samir Bhatnagar who was the particular member of Ottawa Police Services to target Proshanto last year was none too happy to help out by putting this article for deletion. Also it looks like the wikipedia administration is trying to stifle opinion on the matter. Proshanto was unfairly blocked from participating here by wikiadministrator Nishkid64. Does anyone know where we can appeal this???
KEEP. This article provides basic information about the Panhandlers Union in Ottawa. This organization is notable, both in the mainstream and alternative Ottawa and Canadian media and among community organizations and activists in Ottawa and Ontario. It is the only Canadian organization of its kind, and while small, it provides a valuable window into an initiative that has street people organizing themselves in the face of a hostile mayor, hostile media, hostile law and courts system. I am concerned by the reference fetishism I see in this debate. The number of citations available online should not be a criteria for deleting valuable information such as this entry, particularly from an online encyclopedia whose goal is to be open and accessible to all. Mooremedia 08:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — Mooremedia ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete. In general, WP:ORG says that organizations that are local in scope are generally not notable. This organization appears to have gotten no more than the amount of press one would expect for a small, local organization, and none of it indicates that the organization is important outside of Ottawa. I don't think this organization meets the notability criteria. I would point out to the single supporter with the many accounts that this is not a vote, and that her personal attacks and empty rhetoric make it more likely, not less likely, that people will be inclined to delete. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 11:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Keep, notable enough for me. Murderbike 17:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
Keep, I feel that notably has been proved through the listed media sources. We have two editors repeating the same arguments despite contradictory evidence. I am from the US, have been to Canada only breifly, yet have heard of the OPU numerous times. Of course word of mouth, really a much truer judge of notability than corporate owned media, could never meet the standards you're seeking to judge by. Joseph_Lapp 21:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC) reply
I dug up this article from Centretown News (Odd isn't it how some of my references actually have entries on Wikipedia but still aren't notable). This article mentions Nellis and the panhandlers Union. More notability for you: Panhandling emerges as a top safety issue. This is also proof that panhandling is indeed a hot button issue in Ottawa. --Apples99 23:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC) — Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Another article from Centretown News. Homeless art vendors stir opposition. This isn't to be confused with an article which appeared in August in the Centretown Buzz about Nellis, the OPU and CopWatch. Are we notable yet? But restricting people to certain areas would rid other areas of the cultural contribution of the vendors, says Task Force member Andrew Nellis, who is also the organizer of the Ottawa Panhandler’s Union. Nellis says he sees the proposal as a replacement for panhandling, and to a way to help get people off the streets --Apples99 23:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)— Apples99 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
What is wrong with you people? Centretown news is a local paper in Ottawa published by Carleton University and has more than 7000 readers. Just because it is given away for free you are discounting it. Same with Cityjournal, with over 5000 readers. Just because its free doesn't mean that it's "unreliable". Just because Jane Scharf wrote the articles in the Dominion doesn't mean that it's unreliable. I have unearthed evidence here of a conspiracy involving Ottawa Police Services deleting this article and you wikiadministrators are colluding with them. Andrew has been working hard getting people on the internet to come here and vote this deletion down. This has to count for something! I myself have put down at least 7 votes here because you don't seem to understand that this is a major movement. So what if the sources don't reference the panhandlers union. So what if I'm just a homeless guy who can't walk who grew up in the ghettos of Blackburn Hamlet. Supporting the establishment like this is a disgrace to Ottawa. Andrew is a true hero for the working man. He has gotten so many people on the internet to come here and vote to keep this article. I have been trying to get the street people of Ottawa to come here but there is so few access to free computers. So just because there are no "RELIABLE SOURCES" as defined by you doesn't mean that this shouldn't be deleted! Just because there are no CONVENTIONAL MEDIA covering this doesn't mean that the people are not talking! We are notable! We have over 34 members. I am writing to CJOH TV and telling them about Bhatnagar and O'Brien colluding in this matter. Pro Smith 62.149.18.100 05:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)— 62.149.18.100 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Delete: Not notable, also badly written. Suva Чего? 07:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP - I don't really know much about the IWW but it looks like there is a sufficient number of people, many from Ottawa itself, who believe it is worthy of being on Wikipedia. Perhaps needs some editing however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.212.201 ( talk) 11:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC) — 81.86.212.201 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
We keep getting drive-by "deletes" from people who have absolutely no knowledge of the subject being discussed, which is par for the course on Wikipedia, but looking at the user pages of people who are posting "keeps" reveals they all have an interest in labour politics and activism. Should this not tell you something? I've used the example of chemistry and physics, in which it would not be expected for a sub-atomic particle or chemical substance to get a lot of (or ANY) media coverage, yet be notable within its own field. Even dismissing the fact that there has been large amounts of media coverage of the Ottawa Panhandlers Union, since certain people seem curiously blind to any evidence of it, it is STILL notable WITHIN ITS OWN FIELD. You would be hard-pressed to find an anti-poverty activist who has not at least heard of the Ottawa Panhandlers' Union. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a popularity contest. Since some of you folks gaming the system seem so fond of quoting Wikipedia policy, might I refer you to Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia? SmashTheState 17:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC) reply
KEEP: Poverty issues in Canada are already too marginalized, every information source is needed. Anti-poverty groups especially are frequently ignored by the mainstream media, yet their actions are significant. We can help fix that here in Wikipedia. Panhandler's Union is a worthwhile group within Ottawa to recognize. Pbock 19:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)— Pbock ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. reply