- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Tawker ( talk) 19:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Nyongo society
- Nyongo society ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article even states "While there is no concrete evidence that it actually exists" so why is this notable for an article page if it may or may not exist? LADY LOTUS • TALK 19:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 17:40, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. This article has been tagged as a possible hoax since 2014. This is not my last name ( talk) 18:48, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Certainly not a hoax - Bakossi people#Traditional beliefs seems to cover precisely this topic, and is properly written and sourced. For that matter, the references currently given in the article seem reliable, and indicate that this belief system has been shared by some of the Bakossi's neighbours - it is just that the article itself is appallingly written and never directly cites the references. PWilkinson ( talk) 21:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Weak KeepKeep - a little surprised at the nominator's assertion that as a superstitious group of witches doesn't exist, that somehow negates its cultural significance. I've found journals articles etc. dedicated to the rise of this superstition and it's very real affect on migration to cities. The article as it stands needs extensive reconstructive surgery so it gets a weak but it's very much notable. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 20:12, 6 April 2014 (UTC)- Comment I didn't realize that Wikipedia was knowm for creating articles on things that may or may not exist and on possible hoaxes. And I said the article itself states there is no concrete evidence this really exists. LADY LOTUS • TALK 21:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
- Of course people don't have magical powers. The point isn't about whether or not there's some shadowy group out there conversing with the devil. The point is that people believe there's a group doing magic spells, and that this has a large cultural impact on social mobility in Cameroon. That is important and encyclopedic and the history of the myths and their social relevance are things to be explored and cherished.
- Though to reiterate, real-life-wizardry = not real. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 21:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
- Lady Lotus, we cover a lot of fictional things or things that may or may not exist. For example, there is a huge ongoing debate on the existence of this supernatural entity, with no definite answer, yet it is one of the most notable concepts of humankind. -- cyclopia speak! 12:11, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think the debate of God (a heavily worshiped entity in a very large religion) is a little different than a "extremely secretive and mysterious cult" with "no concrete evidence that it actually exists". I think you guys are taking my argument way differently, any hoax with questionable references I would nominate for deletion.
LADY LOTUS •
TALK 12:30, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Both are entities with no concrete evidence that they actually exist. What I meant is that it does not matter if the subject is real, unreal or
known to be a hoax, what matter is that it is notable. A completely different matter is if someone creates an hoax and tries to pass it as real here, see
WP:HOAX. --
cyclopia
speak! 12:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- If it should please the lady I have, in less than 30 seconds, fixed any notion of this issue, namely - A hoax is an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 14:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Both are entities with no concrete evidence that they actually exist. What I meant is that it does not matter if the subject is real, unreal or
known to be a hoax, what matter is that it is notable. A completely different matter is if someone creates an hoax and tries to pass it as real here, see
WP:HOAX. --
cyclopia
speak! 12:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think the debate of God (a heavily worshiped entity in a very large religion) is a little different than a "extremely secretive and mysterious cult" with "no concrete evidence that it actually exists". I think you guys are taking my argument way differently, any hoax with questionable references I would nominate for deletion.
LADY LOTUS •
TALK 12:30, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Quite Serious Comment - I have nothing but good faith, but I'd just like to point something out here. It took me less than 30 seconds to change the one sentence that even hinted at the "fact" that this society existed. I then clicked on the first source given at the bottom, and was able to rewrite the entire thing, with good data that adds to the subject, even when taking into account the information already on there. I know WP:SOFIXIT doesn't mean you fix it because you are obliged to every time you see something wrong - but this did not need to go up for deletion. This is needless. If more than 5 minutes had been taken to look at the sources and tweak the article, we would not be here. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 14:47, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep (ow, I thought I had already !voted, but didn't) per sources in the article and Panyd comments. Notable. -- cyclopia speak! 15:02, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. Clearly notable, as it's been mentioned in multiple sources. Witches might not exist, but that doesn't mean that the social construct that creates them, and history of them does not. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( Message me) 15:30, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Tawker ( talk) 19:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Nyongo society
- Nyongo society ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article even states "While there is no concrete evidence that it actually exists" so why is this notable for an article page if it may or may not exist? LADY LOTUS • TALK 19:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp ( talk) 14:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 17:40, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. This article has been tagged as a possible hoax since 2014. This is not my last name ( talk) 18:48, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Certainly not a hoax - Bakossi people#Traditional beliefs seems to cover precisely this topic, and is properly written and sourced. For that matter, the references currently given in the article seem reliable, and indicate that this belief system has been shared by some of the Bakossi's neighbours - it is just that the article itself is appallingly written and never directly cites the references. PWilkinson ( talk) 21:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Weak KeepKeep - a little surprised at the nominator's assertion that as a superstitious group of witches doesn't exist, that somehow negates its cultural significance. I've found journals articles etc. dedicated to the rise of this superstition and it's very real affect on migration to cities. The article as it stands needs extensive reconstructive surgery so it gets a weak but it's very much notable. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 20:12, 6 April 2014 (UTC)- Comment I didn't realize that Wikipedia was knowm for creating articles on things that may or may not exist and on possible hoaxes. And I said the article itself states there is no concrete evidence this really exists. LADY LOTUS • TALK 21:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
- Of course people don't have magical powers. The point isn't about whether or not there's some shadowy group out there conversing with the devil. The point is that people believe there's a group doing magic spells, and that this has a large cultural impact on social mobility in Cameroon. That is important and encyclopedic and the history of the myths and their social relevance are things to be explored and cherished.
- Though to reiterate, real-life-wizardry = not real. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 21:49, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
- Lady Lotus, we cover a lot of fictional things or things that may or may not exist. For example, there is a huge ongoing debate on the existence of this supernatural entity, with no definite answer, yet it is one of the most notable concepts of humankind. -- cyclopia speak! 12:11, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think the debate of God (a heavily worshiped entity in a very large religion) is a little different than a "extremely secretive and mysterious cult" with "no concrete evidence that it actually exists". I think you guys are taking my argument way differently, any hoax with questionable references I would nominate for deletion.
LADY LOTUS •
TALK 12:30, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Both are entities with no concrete evidence that they actually exist. What I meant is that it does not matter if the subject is real, unreal or
known to be a hoax, what matter is that it is notable. A completely different matter is if someone creates an hoax and tries to pass it as real here, see
WP:HOAX. --
cyclopia
speak! 12:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- If it should please the lady I have, in less than 30 seconds, fixed any notion of this issue, namely - A hoax is an attempt to trick an audience into believing that something false is real. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 14:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Both are entities with no concrete evidence that they actually exist. What I meant is that it does not matter if the subject is real, unreal or
known to be a hoax, what matter is that it is notable. A completely different matter is if someone creates an hoax and tries to pass it as real here, see
WP:HOAX. --
cyclopia
speak! 12:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think the debate of God (a heavily worshiped entity in a very large religion) is a little different than a "extremely secretive and mysterious cult" with "no concrete evidence that it actually exists". I think you guys are taking my argument way differently, any hoax with questionable references I would nominate for deletion.
LADY LOTUS •
TALK 12:30, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Quite Serious Comment - I have nothing but good faith, but I'd just like to point something out here. It took me less than 30 seconds to change the one sentence that even hinted at the "fact" that this society existed. I then clicked on the first source given at the bottom, and was able to rewrite the entire thing, with good data that adds to the subject, even when taking into account the information already on there. I know WP:SOFIXIT doesn't mean you fix it because you are obliged to every time you see something wrong - but this did not need to go up for deletion. This is needless. If more than 5 minutes had been taken to look at the sources and tweak the article, we would not be here. Panyd The muffin is not subtle 14:47, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep (ow, I thought I had already !voted, but didn't) per sources in the article and Panyd comments. Notable. -- cyclopia speak! 15:02, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. Clearly notable, as it's been mentioned in multiple sources. Witches might not exist, but that doesn't mean that the social construct that creates them, and history of them does not. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry ( Message me) 15:30, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.