- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Night of Decadence ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article is not notable, I push for deletion. EmilySarah99 ( talk) 09:34, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Discussion was not properly transcluded to the log until now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * it has begun... 00:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge selectively to
Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. This is an old article (dating back to 2004), when notability standards were much lower. This event fails
WP:GEOSCOPE and does not appear to have a
WP:LASTING impact or otherwise enduring historical significance. However, I think that covering it with a few sentences in the section where we cover Weiss College, the residential college of Rice that puts this event on, would be more than appropriate. The reason I say "selectively" is that much of the content appears to be OR, explicitly written in contradiction to the local reporting about this event (i.e.
The Houston Press suggested the college began adopting a theme for each year's party in 1976. However, it is wrong
), and we need to be careful so as to reflect the RS coverage on this topic when we merge it. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC) - Strong Keep. The subject is sufficiently notable and garners enough
WP:SIGCOV by reliable independent media sources to warrant an article. A diligent
WP:BEFORE would have made this abundantly clear. In regards to the proposition of merging, notability and depth of coverage of this event is more than enough to justify a stand-alone article. Relegating the event to a “few sentences” in Wiess College, for an event on the scale of Night of Decadence, would be akin to merging
Mardi Gras into passing mention within
New Orleans. I’m frankly surprised this was even nominated.
Shawn Teller (
talk)
01:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
- My argument is that it fails WP:NEVENT, since it is of extremely limited geographical scope and is not a precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. Routine kinds of news events (i.e. "college kids throw their annual themed party") are categorically excluded under WP:NEVENT. My point in merging is that, regardless of sourcing, this is something better covered within the context of the residential college.
- With respect to Mardi Gras, that is an international festivity that spans cultures across several European countries in addition to the United States. There is a large difference between that event (which has international scope and importance) to that of a run-of-the-mill annual themed college party, and the analogy comparing the two is deeply flawed in light of WP:NEVENT. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:43, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty ( talk) 16:52, 19 March 2023 (UTC)- Keep this was a hard one. I see and respect the comments about it being of
extremely limited geographical scope and is not a
precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. That said, I also see that it’s an event with a fairly significant attendance and that it’s fairly notorious, having resulted in sufficient hospitalizations at times to merit national press coverage (see for example:
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/29/11-hospitalized-after-Rice-drinking-party/25991351537114/). And when I do my own cursory search, I’m seeing articles that are in-depth (
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years ;
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Rice-party-puts-focus-on-campus-alcohol-policy-3991652.php), diversity of sources including local and national press along with a culture page, student newspapers, an advocacy site (
https://www.hercampus.com/school/rice/night-decadence-empowering-or-objectifying/), and some sources put it in context of things like sexual consent and social behavior (even triggering an also heavily attended counter event,
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years), I think there’s enough to push it over the line.
Jo7hs2 (
talk)
22:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
-
WP:RSSM notes that student media (such as the Rice Thresher and various HerCampus pages) tends not to contribute towards notability. Notability aside, from a
WP:NOPAGE perspective, I don't see why we would need an article on this party separate from one on the dorm, where the subject could be covered in a broader context. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
06:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
- I hear your RSSM comment, but I saw enough coverage in state and national media that I was not particularly concerned some of the additional sourcing for greater context being from student publications. I see several state and national sources (UPI, Houston Chronicle, several other state print/TV sources) that are in sufficient depth for me. I mentioned those publications for social context and diversity of sourcing purposes Jo7hs2 ( talk) 12:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
-
WP:RSSM notes that student media (such as the Rice Thresher and various HerCampus pages) tends not to contribute towards notability. Notability aside, from a
WP:NOPAGE perspective, I don't see why we would need an article on this party separate from one on the dorm, where the subject could be covered in a broader context. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
06:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep this was a hard one. I see and respect the comments about it being of
extremely limited geographical scope and is not a
precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. That said, I also see that it’s an event with a fairly significant attendance and that it’s fairly notorious, having resulted in sufficient hospitalizations at times to merit national press coverage (see for example:
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/29/11-hospitalized-after-Rice-drinking-party/25991351537114/). And when I do my own cursory search, I’m seeing articles that are in-depth (
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years ;
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Rice-party-puts-focus-on-campus-alcohol-policy-3991652.php), diversity of sources including local and national press along with a culture page, student newspapers, an advocacy site (
https://www.hercampus.com/school/rice/night-decadence-empowering-or-objectifying/), and some sources put it in context of things like sexual consent and social behavior (even triggering an also heavily attended counter event,
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years), I think there’s enough to push it over the line.
Jo7hs2 (
talk)
22:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge VERY SELECTIVELY, at most a sentence or two, to Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. There doesn't come anywhere near enough in-depth coverage from independent, secondary sources to meet notability. Yes, the school paper talks about it. Primary. The HerCampus.com piece is nice, but it's not a reliable source, and was written by a Rice student. Onel5969 TT me 18:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge as suggested by Onel5969 and Red-tailed hawk. Sources are entirely local (within a hundred miles or so). This fails every aspect of WP:EVENTCRITERIA, there's nothing approaching DURATION, GEOSCOPE, PERSISTENCE, INDEPTH, or DIVERSE. BusterD ( talk) 15:37, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Night of Decadence ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article is not notable, I push for deletion. EmilySarah99 ( talk) 09:34, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Discussion was not properly transcluded to the log until now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * it has begun... 00:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 01:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge selectively to
Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. This is an old article (dating back to 2004), when notability standards were much lower. This event fails
WP:GEOSCOPE and does not appear to have a
WP:LASTING impact or otherwise enduring historical significance. However, I think that covering it with a few sentences in the section where we cover Weiss College, the residential college of Rice that puts this event on, would be more than appropriate. The reason I say "selectively" is that much of the content appears to be OR, explicitly written in contradiction to the local reporting about this event (i.e.
The Houston Press suggested the college began adopting a theme for each year's party in 1976. However, it is wrong
), and we need to be careful so as to reflect the RS coverage on this topic when we merge it. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC) - Strong Keep. The subject is sufficiently notable and garners enough
WP:SIGCOV by reliable independent media sources to warrant an article. A diligent
WP:BEFORE would have made this abundantly clear. In regards to the proposition of merging, notability and depth of coverage of this event is more than enough to justify a stand-alone article. Relegating the event to a “few sentences” in Wiess College, for an event on the scale of Night of Decadence, would be akin to merging
Mardi Gras into passing mention within
New Orleans. I’m frankly surprised this was even nominated.
Shawn Teller (
talk)
01:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
- My argument is that it fails WP:NEVENT, since it is of extremely limited geographical scope and is not a precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. Routine kinds of news events (i.e. "college kids throw their annual themed party") are categorically excluded under WP:NEVENT. My point in merging is that, regardless of sourcing, this is something better covered within the context of the residential college.
- With respect to Mardi Gras, that is an international festivity that spans cultures across several European countries in addition to the United States. There is a large difference between that event (which has international scope and importance) to that of a run-of-the-mill annual themed college party, and the analogy comparing the two is deeply flawed in light of WP:NEVENT. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:43, 12 March 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty ( talk) 16:52, 19 March 2023 (UTC)- Keep this was a hard one. I see and respect the comments about it being of
extremely limited geographical scope and is not a
precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. That said, I also see that it’s an event with a fairly significant attendance and that it’s fairly notorious, having resulted in sufficient hospitalizations at times to merit national press coverage (see for example:
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/29/11-hospitalized-after-Rice-drinking-party/25991351537114/). And when I do my own cursory search, I’m seeing articles that are in-depth (
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years ;
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Rice-party-puts-focus-on-campus-alcohol-policy-3991652.php), diversity of sources including local and national press along with a culture page, student newspapers, an advocacy site (
https://www.hercampus.com/school/rice/night-decadence-empowering-or-objectifying/), and some sources put it in context of things like sexual consent and social behavior (even triggering an also heavily attended counter event,
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years), I think there’s enough to push it over the line.
Jo7hs2 (
talk)
22:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
-
WP:RSSM notes that student media (such as the Rice Thresher and various HerCampus pages) tends not to contribute towards notability. Notability aside, from a
WP:NOPAGE perspective, I don't see why we would need an article on this party separate from one on the dorm, where the subject could be covered in a broader context. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
06:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
- I hear your RSSM comment, but I saw enough coverage in state and national media that I was not particularly concerned some of the additional sourcing for greater context being from student publications. I see several state and national sources (UPI, Houston Chronicle, several other state print/TV sources) that are in sufficient depth for me. I mentioned those publications for social context and diversity of sourcing purposes Jo7hs2 ( talk) 12:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
-
WP:RSSM notes that student media (such as the Rice Thresher and various HerCampus pages) tends not to contribute towards notability. Notability aside, from a
WP:NOPAGE perspective, I don't see why we would need an article on this party separate from one on the dorm, where the subject could be covered in a broader context. —
Red-tailed hawk
(nest)
06:07, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep this was a hard one. I see and respect the comments about it being of
extremely limited geographical scope and is not a
precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. That said, I also see that it’s an event with a fairly significant attendance and that it’s fairly notorious, having resulted in sufficient hospitalizations at times to merit national press coverage (see for example:
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/29/11-hospitalized-after-Rice-drinking-party/25991351537114/). And when I do my own cursory search, I’m seeing articles that are in-depth (
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years ;
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Rice-party-puts-focus-on-campus-alcohol-policy-3991652.php), diversity of sources including local and national press along with a culture page, student newspapers, an advocacy site (
https://www.hercampus.com/school/rice/night-decadence-empowering-or-objectifying/), and some sources put it in context of things like sexual consent and social behavior (even triggering an also heavily attended counter event,
https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2022/10/campus-reacts-to-first-eoe-nod-in-three-years), I think there’s enough to push it over the line.
Jo7hs2 (
talk)
22:41, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge VERY SELECTIVELY, at most a sentence or two, to Residential colleges of Rice University#Wiess College. There doesn't come anywhere near enough in-depth coverage from independent, secondary sources to meet notability. Yes, the school paper talks about it. Primary. The HerCampus.com piece is nice, but it's not a reliable source, and was written by a Rice student. Onel5969 TT me 18:04, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- Merge as suggested by Onel5969 and Red-tailed hawk. Sources are entirely local (within a hundred miles or so). This fails every aspect of WP:EVENTCRITERIA, there's nothing approaching DURATION, GEOSCOPE, PERSISTENCE, INDEPTH, or DIVERSE. BusterD ( talk) 15:37, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.