- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 19:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
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- Nagail Sohal ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by indefinitely-blocked user Teckgeek who was a sockpuppet of Strider11, as part of a campaign of mass-creation.
This is a town of more than 100,000 people according to the article. The problem is that there is no evidence provided in the article, and none that I could find in my WP:BEFORE, that this place actually exists. The co-ordinates point to a random field in Rawalpindi, not Islamabad, or alternatively to a random compound that is also in Rawalpindi and whose address is not given as Nagail Sohal. A search of the Pakistani newspaper The Nation returns zero hits for "Nagail Sohal". Similarly there were no hits at all from GNews and GScholar searches. A search of Google returns only mirrors. There is a corresponding Urdu Wiki page but this is cited only to the English Wikipedia page, which shows just how harmful these low-quality Geostubs are.
The source on the page (
Fallingrain.com) is simply a source for rainfall at a place called Nagail Sohal which states "Approximate population for 7 km radius from this point: 93871"
- this is not the population of Nagail Sohal but simply an estimated number of people living near it, and is obviously a different number to that provided in the article. This source includes yet another set of co-ordinates that
point to the village of Gujar Khan, also in Rawalpindi, not Islamabad. The content on this website is based on
a grab-bag of unreliable sources and as such it too is unreliable.
The TL;DR version of this is that - unless I am very much mistaken (wrong Romanisation maybe?) - Wikipedia appears to have been hosting a hoax article created by a sock-puppet about an imaginary city of more than 100k people in Pakistan for the last 13 years. At the very least I'm not seeing either a WP:GEOLAND#1 pass (which would require legal recognition) nor a WP:GNG pass.
BTW - this is literally just the first Pakistan Geostub I checked at random. I haven't even looked for anything specific. FOARP ( talk) 16:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Pakistan. FOARP ( talk) 16:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete The minimum standard is an RS that establishes it exists, and as an entity eligible under N:Geo. North8000 ( talk) 16:51, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I suspect this is a real place. The one source cited
[1] also gives more precise coordinates of latitude 33.2528, longitude 73.3357, and if you plug that into Google Maps you get
this, which definitely looks like a settlement, but it's a small village rather than a town with a population of 117,591. However without a reliable source to say it exists and is called Nagail Sohal we can't have an article on it per
the verifiability policy, and there doesn't seem to be one - the one link cited definitely doesn't look reliable and I can't find anything better. I suspect the 117,591 figure is taken from that link's estimate of the number of people living within 7km, which would include the city of
Gujar Khan (population: 90,131).
Hut 8.5
18:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- I have removed the population figure. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 09:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comments It sound like it exists! [2]. I thoughts towns were notable enough to be included per WP:PLACES. KSAWikipedian ( talk) 17:01, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are loads of sites like that which show weather forecasts or other data for places culled from databases (possibly even from Wikipedia). It isn't a reliable source and it doesn't prove the place exists. Hut 8.5 18:00, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
-
KSAWikipedian - Only legally recognised populated places have presumed notability, per
WP:GEOLAND#1. Weather.com does not show legal recognition (e.g., incorporation as a city or having a town charter), and as has been explained above, is not a reliable source. Additionally, PB is the area code for Punjab, but this place is supposedly in the Capital Territory.
FOARP (
talk)
19:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Generally yes towns, cities and villages are presumed to be notable as long as a reliable source shows it as such, the source doesn't mention what it is and doesn't seem to be reliable for that context anyway. Looking on maps/satellite there doesn't seem to be a town or even village there maybe just a few houses. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:09, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
-
KSAWikipedian - Only legally recognised populated places have presumed notability, per
WP:GEOLAND#1. Weather.com does not show legal recognition (e.g., incorporation as a city or having a town charter), and as has been explained above, is not a reliable source. Additionally, PB is the area code for Punjab, but this place is supposedly in the Capital Territory.
FOARP (
talk)
19:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, I couldn't find reliable sources. Suonii180 ( talk) 12:50, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 19:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Nagail Sohal ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by indefinitely-blocked user Teckgeek who was a sockpuppet of Strider11, as part of a campaign of mass-creation.
This is a town of more than 100,000 people according to the article. The problem is that there is no evidence provided in the article, and none that I could find in my WP:BEFORE, that this place actually exists. The co-ordinates point to a random field in Rawalpindi, not Islamabad, or alternatively to a random compound that is also in Rawalpindi and whose address is not given as Nagail Sohal. A search of the Pakistani newspaper The Nation returns zero hits for "Nagail Sohal". Similarly there were no hits at all from GNews and GScholar searches. A search of Google returns only mirrors. There is a corresponding Urdu Wiki page but this is cited only to the English Wikipedia page, which shows just how harmful these low-quality Geostubs are.
The source on the page (
Fallingrain.com) is simply a source for rainfall at a place called Nagail Sohal which states "Approximate population for 7 km radius from this point: 93871"
- this is not the population of Nagail Sohal but simply an estimated number of people living near it, and is obviously a different number to that provided in the article. This source includes yet another set of co-ordinates that
point to the village of Gujar Khan, also in Rawalpindi, not Islamabad. The content on this website is based on
a grab-bag of unreliable sources and as such it too is unreliable.
The TL;DR version of this is that - unless I am very much mistaken (wrong Romanisation maybe?) - Wikipedia appears to have been hosting a hoax article created by a sock-puppet about an imaginary city of more than 100k people in Pakistan for the last 13 years. At the very least I'm not seeing either a WP:GEOLAND#1 pass (which would require legal recognition) nor a WP:GNG pass.
BTW - this is literally just the first Pakistan Geostub I checked at random. I haven't even looked for anything specific. FOARP ( talk) 16:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Pakistan. FOARP ( talk) 16:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete The minimum standard is an RS that establishes it exists, and as an entity eligible under N:Geo. North8000 ( talk) 16:51, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I suspect this is a real place. The one source cited
[1] also gives more precise coordinates of latitude 33.2528, longitude 73.3357, and if you plug that into Google Maps you get
this, which definitely looks like a settlement, but it's a small village rather than a town with a population of 117,591. However without a reliable source to say it exists and is called Nagail Sohal we can't have an article on it per
the verifiability policy, and there doesn't seem to be one - the one link cited definitely doesn't look reliable and I can't find anything better. I suspect the 117,591 figure is taken from that link's estimate of the number of people living within 7km, which would include the city of
Gujar Khan (population: 90,131).
Hut 8.5
18:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- I have removed the population figure. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 09:14, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comments It sound like it exists! [2]. I thoughts towns were notable enough to be included per WP:PLACES. KSAWikipedian ( talk) 17:01, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- There are loads of sites like that which show weather forecasts or other data for places culled from databases (possibly even from Wikipedia). It isn't a reliable source and it doesn't prove the place exists. Hut 8.5 18:00, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
-
KSAWikipedian - Only legally recognised populated places have presumed notability, per
WP:GEOLAND#1. Weather.com does not show legal recognition (e.g., incorporation as a city or having a town charter), and as has been explained above, is not a reliable source. Additionally, PB is the area code for Punjab, but this place is supposedly in the Capital Territory.
FOARP (
talk)
19:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Generally yes towns, cities and villages are presumed to be notable as long as a reliable source shows it as such, the source doesn't mention what it is and doesn't seem to be reliable for that context anyway. Looking on maps/satellite there doesn't seem to be a town or even village there maybe just a few houses. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:09, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
-
KSAWikipedian - Only legally recognised populated places have presumed notability, per
WP:GEOLAND#1. Weather.com does not show legal recognition (e.g., incorporation as a city or having a town charter), and as has been explained above, is not a reliable source. Additionally, PB is the area code for Punjab, but this place is supposedly in the Capital Territory.
FOARP (
talk)
19:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Delete, I couldn't find reliable sources. Suonii180 ( talk) 12:50, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.