WIKIPEDIA:ARTICLES FOR DELETION MYSTERY CASE FILES: KEY TO RAVENHEARST

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. "Some of the discussions above are confusing" is an understatement. Essentially, established editors and IPs disagree about whether coverage of these (similar) run-of-the-mill casual video games in (similar) gaming websites is sufficient to establish notability. There's not enough depth to the discussion to establish consensus about this. I recommend nominating only one of these articles at a time to allow for more focused discussion. Sandstein 19:13, 14 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Mystery Case Files: Key to Ravenhearst

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Not independently notable. The main article for all 14 games is Mystery Case Files, but I don't think any of the individual games in the series are notable on their own. Any referenced information could be merged, but the main article already contains a summary of each game in the series. Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 08:23, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

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MCF general

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:29, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Izno, thanks for that. To be clear I could see that some were probably better reviewed than others. I considered it a good idea to decide what to with all them at the same time. Because Key to Ravenhearst was a new article, but clearly someone carrying on the set and I thought it unfair to look at it isolation. Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 12:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
A number of the sources provided by the IP and Frapril are not reliable (some not independent). Rather than try to answer every single case, I'll make a comment here. The closer should take these comments into account for each article. (Conversely, my sources are all listed on WP:VG/RS as reliable sources.) Summary:
- rgamereview, allaboutcasualgame, gamemile, tlibuild (tlibuild looks like a mirror), mysterveil, gamecola have no indication of reliability. No editorial policy and no staff byline in some cases. With some, it's not obvious to me whether the articles are self-published in essence.
- casualgameguides and elephant games do not look independent. The former's about page directly lists "Big Fish Games".
- kdhnews.com/blogs is evidently self-published. lockergnome looks the same.
- 148apps and jayisgames are situational on WP:VG/S and probably should be avoided for showing notability.
- Conversely, lapresse looks okay. Byline, professional appearance. (Quite a few phone numbers.)
- 4players might be okay. Some archives at WT:VG/S seems to indicate its come up before but no commentary or discussion on it. androidauthority might similarly be okay. I'm not enthused about the quantity of editors as an indication of reliability. Their about page at least mentions editorial quality, but doesn't explain how or why.
- jeuxvideo, indiegames, gamezebo are listed on WP:VG/S as reliable.
-- Izno ( talk) 15:41, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
We could say the same for Gamezebo. 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 20:13, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Gamezebo is listed as reliable on the WT:VG/S, that source is fine. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 21:01, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Sure, and I referenced it myself below. Added explicitly here. -- Izno ( talk) 21:32, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
So all the other sources are wrong for Wikipedia? 174.93.229.215 ( talk) 21:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Without going into detail on each source, it seems its only acceptable if listed as reliable at WT:VG/S. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 22:16, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Not really. We need to see the hallmarks of reliability: independence, editorial policy, and general professionalism. The sources that the IPs have provided do not do so almost categorically (there are a few that are okay, obviously). WP:VG/RS does not include every site that displays those attributes (for this domain), so saying "only VG/RS" isn't right either. -- Izno ( talk) 21:32, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
But it’s limit the source! There is a group that analys them for more chance? 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 23:54, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Yes, that does limit the list. See above comment to Frayae. -- Izno ( talk) 21:32, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
All about Casual Game is one of the modern website in the casual speciality and he is in no list, so it better to ask the moderator about it. 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 02:47, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
It's not in the list, and would not be added to the list, because of the reasons I provided in my initial comment here. -- Izno ( talk) 21:32, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply

The site is more used than Gamezebo in the industry. 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 21:38, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Reliability is not based (solely) on usage. -- Izno ( talk) 21:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
So you mean these site are (All about Casual Game and the other are situational? 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 00:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC) reply
No, I'm saying the sites you provided do not indicate that they are reliable, and so we treat them as unreliable. -- Izno ( talk) 03:37, 10 July 2018 (UTC) reply
What About Modojo & 4players? 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 13:12, 10 July 2018 (UTC) reply
I noted that 4players might be okay. A look at modojo puts it in the unreliable category. -- Izno ( talk) 03:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Killeen Daily Herald kdhnews look professionnal for me. 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
At the moment I think that this will end up much as Izno has indicated in each section, with some redirected and some kept. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 13:57, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
We must search more source. Delete MillionHeir and/or Malgrave, they are spin off of the séries. 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:39, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
- It’s not because all source used are not good for Wikipedia that they are not notables. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:24, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  - They are notables, but the source on the reliable list is for the core and hardcore playing. So it make the casual playing less notable. So if it’s the case why not delete all Casual playing released articles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

My initial idea was that the whole series could be covered in one article about the whole series. This would include a summary of each game and some detail based on what sources are available. The spin off games could be covered elsewhere. This should at least be considered as an option. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 14:41, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Mabye not redirect them, but delete them to keep the possibility to make pages for them when it will have more reliables sources. 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Any pages that are redirected can be turned back into a article whenever further sources become available that show it's notability. The pages are unlikely to be deleted regardless of the outcome because the titles are valid redirects to the main series article. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 14:54, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

And how we can show them if it’s happen? 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 15:08, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Add a note to the article talk page. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 15:10, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Steam Bundle, I hope it help. 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 01:50, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Ok, delete Key to Ravenhearst and Ravenhearst Unlocked until we find more sources. 72.10.133.225 ( talk) 19:48, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply

MillionHeir

MillionHeir reviews: GameSpot, IGN, Wired, Engadget, NintendoLife, GamesRadar, GameZone, VideoGamer, EW (?). Keep MillionHeir as I think it is clearly notable. I can probably pull up a similar quantity of references for the other games (but maybe not); please ensure you performed WP:BEFORE sufficiently. (One way to do that is to use WP:VG/CSE.) -- Izno ( talk) 11:54, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
La Presse 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 23:45, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Malgrave Incident

Malgrave Incident reviews: NintendoLife, GameSpot, IGN, GamesRadar, Wired Q&A, Wired, ~~Adventure Gamers~~, Nintendo World Report. This is also a keep. -- Izno ( talk) 12:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Strike Adventure Gamers per WT:VG/S. -- Izno ( talk) 04:44, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Dire Grove, Sacred Grove

Dire Grove, Sacred Grove reviews: Gamezebo. This is a reasonable redirect to Mystery Case Files. -- Izno ( talk) 12:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Review: All About Casual Game — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frapril ( talk • contribs) 14:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
kdhnews.com 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 23:05, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Review: 148apps Keep Frapril ( talk) 00:12, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Gadget Speak 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 00:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
CultureFly i hope it’s good source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.229.215 ( talk) 21:58, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Modojo 174.93.229.215 ( talk) 22:02, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
being MVP 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:23, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Delete/redirect to as above. The link posted above do not lead towards notability Lee Vilenski ^{(
talk •
contribs)} 15:17, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
It's notable in the Casual Spheres (The sources used are from this sphere). if we search on your reliable Sources, sure it's not Notable because your reliable sources are for the Hardcore Playing and all the sources for the casual playing (Know or Unknow) are unreliable on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 19:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
dumeegamer.com 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 20:01, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
mommykatandkids.com 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 20:23, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Invasion Game Community 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 01:44, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply
app recs 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 01:47, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply
androidokra.com 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 01:49, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Fate's Carnival

Fate's Carnival reviews: Gamezebo. Another reasonable redirect to Mystery Case Files. -- Izno ( talk) 12:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
The game page on developer website Elephant Games — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frapril ( talk • contribs) 14:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Reviews should be from independent sites. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 14:35, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Review: All About Casual Game maybe keep
Gamemile Keep 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 14:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

This one is still weak. The Metacritic link is a placeholder "No score yet - based on 0 Critics", so doesn't count. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 17:34, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

So the MEtacritics links are not allowas source? 174.93.229.215 ( talk) 19:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

I think it would be usable if there was a critic review. No review means no information. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 19:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply

We got indie games. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 19:26, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Delete/Redirect - Metacritic as itself does not promote notability. The reviews contained however, may do. Nothing to prove this is notable yet. Lee Vilenski ^{(
talk •
contribs)} 15:19, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Huntsville

No reviews that I saw online. Redirect for now, but I suspect there will be magazine coverage of this one given its age. -- Izno ( talk) 12:49, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Jayisgames it's a weak source but it's a beginning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frapril ( talk • contribs) 15:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Gamezebo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 23:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Redirect as above. No prejudice if sources exist. Lee Vilenski ^{(
talk •
contribs)} 15:20, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Key to Ravenhearst

Reviews: Gamezebo. Redirect. -- Izno ( talk) 12:49, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Review: All About Casual Game — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frapril ( talk • contribs) 14:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Rgamereview.com Frapril ( talk) 19:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
I don’t think it’s good source [1] Frapril ( talk) 00:16, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Gamemile 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 14:33, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
PR Newswire 174.93.229.215 ( talk) 21:42, 8 July 2018 (UTC) reply
KDHNews 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 14:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Redirect none of the above are reliable sources for notability. Lee Vilenski ^{(
talk •
contribs)} 15:20, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
It's notable in the Casual Sphere (The source are from this sphere). if we search on your reliable Sources, sure it's not Notable because your reliable sources are for the Hardcore Playing and all the sources for the casual playing (Know or Unknow) are unreliables on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 19:23, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply
dumeegamer.com 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 20:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Games without articles

In case that someone want or would create articles about these games. Ravenhearst Unlockes reviews: All About Casual Game, Broken Hour reviews: All About Casual Game, The Black Veil reviews: All About Casual Game, The Revenant's Hunt Previews: All About Casual Game, Reviews: All About Casual Game. I continue to search sources for Rewind. Frapril —Preceding undated comment added 14:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
I created a article on Ravenhearst Unlocked, but I add the AfD band to be sure but I don’t put it in that list. I hope it’s ok. Frapril ( talk) 00:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Mystery Case Files: Broken Hour. Can't find much more, a trailer on IGN, no metacritic reviews, and this adventuregamers listing. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 19:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Ravenhearst Unlocked. There's a gamezebo review and adventuregamers.com. — Frayæ ( Talk/ Spjall) 19:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Another Review: Casual Game Reviews — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 02:20, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply
The Black Veil reviews: Dynamic States 205.233.125.219 ( talk) 02:27, 12 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Rewind reviews: rgamereview.com 205.233.125.123 ( talk) 01:10, 7 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Administrator note This may need to be reviewed and closed by an admin with some familiarity with the genre. Some of the discussions above are confusing. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 03:01, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Mystery Case Files: Key to Ravenhearst

MCF general

MillionHeir

Malgrave Incident

Dire Grove, Sacred Grove

Fate's Carnival

Shadow Lake

Escape from Ravenhearst

13th Skull

Dire Grove

Return to Ravenhearst

Madame Fate

Ravenhearst

Prime Suspects

Huntsville

Key to Ravenhearst

Games without articles

Mystery Case Files: Key to Ravenhearst

MCF general

MillionHeir

Malgrave Incident

Dire Grove, Sacred Grove

Fate's Carnival

Shadow Lake

Escape from Ravenhearst

13th Skull

Dire Grove

Return to Ravenhearst

Madame Fate

Ravenhearst

Prime Suspects

Huntsville

Key to Ravenhearst

Games without articles

Videos

Websites

Encyclopedia

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