The result was delete. Basically see what Uncle G says below, to whom you people should have listened. You guys have provided a tremendous deal of argumentation but no actual sources!!! about this guy other than some blog and entries on CDBaby and IMDB, which aren't terribly hard to get. This AfD debate has, bizarrely enough, had evidence of reliable third party coverage presented about it, while none could be found on Matthew Dallman himself beyond the blurb in the Washington Post, which doesn't really constitute non-trivial coverage on him. Since this is a high profile AfD, I really suggest people read and understand what Uncle G says below before jumping to any conclusions about systematic bias on Wikipedia. If reliable, published sources unrelated to Wikipedia or Dallman had been presented with information about him, this article would have been kept. But those sources don't seem to have covered him yet... so any beef should be with them for not writing about him, not with Wikipedia for merely enforcing our established policies. If you can't be bothered to read Uncle G's full comment, at least read the summary: "So if you wish to make an argument, please cite sources. Sources work. "I'm notable. I've done X, Y, and Z." does not." And the latter was all that was presented. W.marsh 17:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply
No references to establish notability. One entry in IMDB for Matthew Dallman, but no way to link the two. Fails WP:Notability. Hatch68 06:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC) reply
I would feel strange arguing for my "notability", and it appears that Wikipedia culture doesn't believe I should, anyway, which is fine by me. I can speak to a couple issues, though. First, the Marquis' Who's Who in America, which will include me in the 2007 edition, does not require me to purchase a copy of the book, so that charge by Hatch68 is incorrect. My credentials were independently judged by its editors to be worthy of inclusion. Also, Hatch68 questions the IMDB listing; it is for a short film that my wife directed, and I scored; the film played in various film festivals, incl the prestigious Chi. Int'l. in 2005, in one of their "shorts programs"; it also played at other festivals, in Chicago and Milwaukee, USA. The IMDB listing was, I believe, created by someone internal to the Chicago Int'l Film Festival.
I have an email acquaintance with the creator of this original listing page for me (M Alan Kazlev); he informed me after he made the page, and invited me to make whatever corrections were needed. I took him up, but only on minor points. It seems now, as I know more about Wikipedia, that such participation by me is a Wiki-no no. Other than that, I have had no part in this, but it was clear, from seeing the page first develop, that Alan pulled from the bio page on my personal website (matthewdallman.com/bio.html), and that other users (I don't know who) were adding to the page, so the charge by Ohconfucius is incorrect. Lastly, it might be noteworthy that, in addition to the arts journal I founded (POLYSEMY), I was involved with another publication -- The Manifest (the-manifest.org). In addition to authoring several articles for that magazine, their editor in chief interviewed me. (see http://www.the-manifest.org/features/dallman1.html).
I fear I've said too much, so I'll stop. If there are any questions, let me know. Sharkface217's suggestion to "improve it's Wiki-credibility" makes sense to me. M Dallman 1 Dec 2006
I will go on the record to say that I really suspect some sockpuppetry going on here as well. The link to the Wikipedia article was featured prominently on your home page. The username Curlygoose has two clues; the first being that your picture that was uploaded and used in the article shows you with very curly hair, the second is that your production company is named Electric Goose. Also, the user Curlygoose uploaded the picture used in the article, then put a copyright notice on the picture that the copyright holder allows anyone to use it for any purpose, which leads me to believe that Curlygoose is the copyright holder. None of this is definitive proof, but viewing them as a whole makes me extremely suspicious.-- Hatch68 19:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
The best way to demonstrate that a person is notable is to show that such published works exist by pointing to them, i.e. to cite sources to demonstrate that our Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies (WP:BIO) are satisfied. If you can do that, you can make a strong argument for keeping. However, conversely, if no such published works exist, a reliable and full Wikipedia article cannot be written, because we don't base our articles on autobiographies, on people, companies, groups, bands, web sites, and whatnot telling the world about themselves. As all of our notability criteria for people, companies, web sites, bands, and so forth state, autobiographies, advertising, and self-publicity are not routes to having a Wikipedia article.
So if you wish to make an argument, please cite sources. Sources work. "I'm notable. I've done X, Y, and Z." does not. Sources! Sources! Sources! Uncle G 14:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Catchpole 21:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC) reply
User:Hatch68 mentions that no one seems to be able to come up with reliable, verifiable sources to demonstrate notability (for Dallman).
And this is my counter argument, that what Hatch68 has said re the Dallman bio applies in a much broader manner, and reflects an unavoidable and non-intentioned bias among Wikipedians, every one of whom has the very best of intentions. After all, how does one define notability? Who sets the standards? And how do we avoid these standards simply perpetuated the already established bias and over-emphasis in certain (albeit very worthy) subjects and perspectives, to the detriment of other (equally worthy) subjects and perspectives?
I'll give an example. I wrote a stubby bio page on David Grimaldi, co-author of Evolution of the Insects, an important textbook and definitive popular review of Paleoentomology. At some point this page seems to have disappeared. What were the reasons why he was considered non-notable?
Yet at the same time there are entries on every detail of pop sci fi franchises (less so serious SF). I'll pick a page at random: List of Star Wars comic books. Every comic book and every author listed. Now, mind you, I strongly support this!!! I think it is way cool the way that Wikipedia does list every character and detail and comic book, no matter how non-notable they may be to anyone outside that particular area of geekdom!
In fact, this was one of the main things that inspired me to write entries on Paleontological authors like Grimaldi, on Integral artists like Dallman, and on Integral theory critics and sceptics like Geoff Falk, in the first place. Surely all these people are at least just as notable as an obscure planet or character in the Star Trek or Doctor Who franchises, say. btw, ST and Dr Who rock!, I'm not dissing these shows, I grew up watching the original series of Star Trek and the early Doctor Whos, there were among the things that really got me interested in SF; but i'm just trying to make a point. I could draw similar examples from anywhere in Wikipedia. And what all this means is that Wikipedia is essentially a biased coverage, and that to Wikipedia's credit this is recognised. I argue here that the Dallman page should be kept, and the Grimaldi and Falk pages restored, as a way of helping to balance the unavoidable and unintentional bias that this vast and magnificent project has. M Alan Kazlev 21:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
M Alan Kazlev appears to be attempting to argue that to govern an encyclopaedia in a manner that ensures that it is encyclopaedic is to show a systematic bias against subjects that are not encylopaedic. This debate has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with notability. Perhaps he is not aware of the other wikis which may more suitably house this type of information. He may also wish to think about the Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions - the presence of sf pages in wikipedia does not make Dallman notable. An RS would do but there isn't one. -- Backface 00:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply
The result was delete. Basically see what Uncle G says below, to whom you people should have listened. You guys have provided a tremendous deal of argumentation but no actual sources!!! about this guy other than some blog and entries on CDBaby and IMDB, which aren't terribly hard to get. This AfD debate has, bizarrely enough, had evidence of reliable third party coverage presented about it, while none could be found on Matthew Dallman himself beyond the blurb in the Washington Post, which doesn't really constitute non-trivial coverage on him. Since this is a high profile AfD, I really suggest people read and understand what Uncle G says below before jumping to any conclusions about systematic bias on Wikipedia. If reliable, published sources unrelated to Wikipedia or Dallman had been presented with information about him, this article would have been kept. But those sources don't seem to have covered him yet... so any beef should be with them for not writing about him, not with Wikipedia for merely enforcing our established policies. If you can't be bothered to read Uncle G's full comment, at least read the summary: "So if you wish to make an argument, please cite sources. Sources work. "I'm notable. I've done X, Y, and Z." does not." And the latter was all that was presented. W.marsh 17:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply
No references to establish notability. One entry in IMDB for Matthew Dallman, but no way to link the two. Fails WP:Notability. Hatch68 06:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC) reply
I would feel strange arguing for my "notability", and it appears that Wikipedia culture doesn't believe I should, anyway, which is fine by me. I can speak to a couple issues, though. First, the Marquis' Who's Who in America, which will include me in the 2007 edition, does not require me to purchase a copy of the book, so that charge by Hatch68 is incorrect. My credentials were independently judged by its editors to be worthy of inclusion. Also, Hatch68 questions the IMDB listing; it is for a short film that my wife directed, and I scored; the film played in various film festivals, incl the prestigious Chi. Int'l. in 2005, in one of their "shorts programs"; it also played at other festivals, in Chicago and Milwaukee, USA. The IMDB listing was, I believe, created by someone internal to the Chicago Int'l Film Festival.
I have an email acquaintance with the creator of this original listing page for me (M Alan Kazlev); he informed me after he made the page, and invited me to make whatever corrections were needed. I took him up, but only on minor points. It seems now, as I know more about Wikipedia, that such participation by me is a Wiki-no no. Other than that, I have had no part in this, but it was clear, from seeing the page first develop, that Alan pulled from the bio page on my personal website (matthewdallman.com/bio.html), and that other users (I don't know who) were adding to the page, so the charge by Ohconfucius is incorrect. Lastly, it might be noteworthy that, in addition to the arts journal I founded (POLYSEMY), I was involved with another publication -- The Manifest (the-manifest.org). In addition to authoring several articles for that magazine, their editor in chief interviewed me. (see http://www.the-manifest.org/features/dallman1.html).
I fear I've said too much, so I'll stop. If there are any questions, let me know. Sharkface217's suggestion to "improve it's Wiki-credibility" makes sense to me. M Dallman 1 Dec 2006
I will go on the record to say that I really suspect some sockpuppetry going on here as well. The link to the Wikipedia article was featured prominently on your home page. The username Curlygoose has two clues; the first being that your picture that was uploaded and used in the article shows you with very curly hair, the second is that your production company is named Electric Goose. Also, the user Curlygoose uploaded the picture used in the article, then put a copyright notice on the picture that the copyright holder allows anyone to use it for any purpose, which leads me to believe that Curlygoose is the copyright holder. None of this is definitive proof, but viewing them as a whole makes me extremely suspicious.-- Hatch68 19:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC) reply
The best way to demonstrate that a person is notable is to show that such published works exist by pointing to them, i.e. to cite sources to demonstrate that our Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies (WP:BIO) are satisfied. If you can do that, you can make a strong argument for keeping. However, conversely, if no such published works exist, a reliable and full Wikipedia article cannot be written, because we don't base our articles on autobiographies, on people, companies, groups, bands, web sites, and whatnot telling the world about themselves. As all of our notability criteria for people, companies, web sites, bands, and so forth state, autobiographies, advertising, and self-publicity are not routes to having a Wikipedia article.
So if you wish to make an argument, please cite sources. Sources work. "I'm notable. I've done X, Y, and Z." does not. Sources! Sources! Sources! Uncle G 14:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC) reply
Catchpole 21:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC) reply
User:Hatch68 mentions that no one seems to be able to come up with reliable, verifiable sources to demonstrate notability (for Dallman).
And this is my counter argument, that what Hatch68 has said re the Dallman bio applies in a much broader manner, and reflects an unavoidable and non-intentioned bias among Wikipedians, every one of whom has the very best of intentions. After all, how does one define notability? Who sets the standards? And how do we avoid these standards simply perpetuated the already established bias and over-emphasis in certain (albeit very worthy) subjects and perspectives, to the detriment of other (equally worthy) subjects and perspectives?
I'll give an example. I wrote a stubby bio page on David Grimaldi, co-author of Evolution of the Insects, an important textbook and definitive popular review of Paleoentomology. At some point this page seems to have disappeared. What were the reasons why he was considered non-notable?
Yet at the same time there are entries on every detail of pop sci fi franchises (less so serious SF). I'll pick a page at random: List of Star Wars comic books. Every comic book and every author listed. Now, mind you, I strongly support this!!! I think it is way cool the way that Wikipedia does list every character and detail and comic book, no matter how non-notable they may be to anyone outside that particular area of geekdom!
In fact, this was one of the main things that inspired me to write entries on Paleontological authors like Grimaldi, on Integral artists like Dallman, and on Integral theory critics and sceptics like Geoff Falk, in the first place. Surely all these people are at least just as notable as an obscure planet or character in the Star Trek or Doctor Who franchises, say. btw, ST and Dr Who rock!, I'm not dissing these shows, I grew up watching the original series of Star Trek and the early Doctor Whos, there were among the things that really got me interested in SF; but i'm just trying to make a point. I could draw similar examples from anywhere in Wikipedia. And what all this means is that Wikipedia is essentially a biased coverage, and that to Wikipedia's credit this is recognised. I argue here that the Dallman page should be kept, and the Grimaldi and Falk pages restored, as a way of helping to balance the unavoidable and unintentional bias that this vast and magnificent project has. M Alan Kazlev 21:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC) reply
M Alan Kazlev appears to be attempting to argue that to govern an encyclopaedia in a manner that ensures that it is encyclopaedic is to show a systematic bias against subjects that are not encylopaedic. This debate has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with notability. Perhaps he is not aware of the other wikis which may more suitably house this type of information. He may also wish to think about the Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions - the presence of sf pages in wikipedia does not make Dallman notable. An RS would do but there isn't one. -- Backface 00:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply