- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 03:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Marine vertebrate
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- Marine vertebrate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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I am nominating this very cautiously given the length and mostly well-sourced content, but there is simply no use for an article on such a topic. Many of the species discussed here are not particularly closely related beyond being vertebrates, nor do they have similar modes of existence beyond living in the ocean. There is nothing that could ever be included here that would not fit better into another article and it could never read as anything other than WP:SYNTH of marginally related subtopics. An anonymous username, not my real name 03:16, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Biology and Organisms. An anonymous username, not my real name 03:16, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Even the most superficial of searches shows that this is a topic with reams of available reliable sources that focus on marine vertebrates as a specific class of animal. Therefore it is an appropriate topic for an encyclopedia, regardless of overlap it has with other topics. Here is just a small selection from the first pages of book and scholar searches:
- Sydeman, William J.; Poloczanska, Elvira; Reed, Thomas E.; Thompson, Sarah Ann (2015-11-13). "Climate change and marine vertebrates". Science. 350 (6262): 772–777. doi: 10.1126/science.aac9874. ISSN 0036-8075.
- López‐Martínez, Sergio; Morales‐Caselles, Carmen; Kadar, Julianna; Rivas, Marga L. "Overview of global status of plastic presence in marine vertebrates". Global Change Biology. 27 (4): 728–737. doi: 10.1111/gcb.15416. ISSN 1354-1013.
- Aguirre, A. Alonso; Tabor, Gary M. (2004-09-01). "Introduction: Marine Vertebrates as Sentinels of Marine Ecosystem Health". EcoHealth. 1 (3): 236–238. doi: 10.1007/s10393-004-0091-9. ISSN 1612-9210.
- Burger, Joanna (1988). Seabirds & Other Marine Vertebrates: Competition, Predation, and Other Interactions. Columbia University Press. ISBN 978-0-231-06362-3.
- Rossi-Santos, Marcos R.; Finkl, Charles W. (2017-08-10). Advances in Marine Vertebrate Research in Latin America: Technological Innovation and Conservation. Springer. ISBN 978-3-319-56985-7.
- Jfire ( talk) 04:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep This strikes me as a fine broad-concept article - a collection of short summaries leading off to in-depth treatement in more specialized articles, and wanted in preference of disambiguations where the topic has sufficient depth. See Wikipedia:Broad-concept article for these tenets. (I do not believe it is necessary to list examples for the term being in use, as done above, as that is trivially obvious and we could fill the page with related textbooks and articles.) -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 08:05, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep A common enough individual subject in online searches and in books etc., just because a topic has a wide subject matter does not seem to warrant deletion but are ideal overview articles. Hardyplants ( talk) 08:48, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I am not piling on for the notability reasoning but to maybe explain why such a grouping is useful. The references that Jfire posts above are all from global change biology, and 'marine vertebrates' as a grouping are useful to explain how ecosystem changes may affect large-bodied taxa (as distinct from e.g. algae/plankton) amongst a broad range of phyla. Consider similarly Megafauna which are also very different species but are usefully classed together to explain their gradual disappearance from the modern day. It shouldn't be seen as a systematic group.
- I agree there's something up with the article that very few of the references actually act to explain the concept of "marine vertebrates". The article just provides examples of some vertebrates that live in the sea, not that "marine vertebrates" is a ecologically-meaningful/useful grouping. Maybe I could start rewriting it with the references Jfire has provided above. Thanks all. NeverRainsButPours ( talk) 20:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep An obviously useful overview article. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 23:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep While not monophyletic, Marine Vertebrates are a broadly used grouping of organisms which warrant a common discussion. See also the useful page on Flying and gliding animals or Marine fungi.
- Ababaian ( talk) 22:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 03:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Marine vertebrate
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Marine vertebrate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I am nominating this very cautiously given the length and mostly well-sourced content, but there is simply no use for an article on such a topic. Many of the species discussed here are not particularly closely related beyond being vertebrates, nor do they have similar modes of existence beyond living in the ocean. There is nothing that could ever be included here that would not fit better into another article and it could never read as anything other than WP:SYNTH of marginally related subtopics. An anonymous username, not my real name 03:16, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Biology and Organisms. An anonymous username, not my real name 03:16, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Even the most superficial of searches shows that this is a topic with reams of available reliable sources that focus on marine vertebrates as a specific class of animal. Therefore it is an appropriate topic for an encyclopedia, regardless of overlap it has with other topics. Here is just a small selection from the first pages of book and scholar searches:
- Sydeman, William J.; Poloczanska, Elvira; Reed, Thomas E.; Thompson, Sarah Ann (2015-11-13). "Climate change and marine vertebrates". Science. 350 (6262): 772–777. doi: 10.1126/science.aac9874. ISSN 0036-8075.
- López‐Martínez, Sergio; Morales‐Caselles, Carmen; Kadar, Julianna; Rivas, Marga L. "Overview of global status of plastic presence in marine vertebrates". Global Change Biology. 27 (4): 728–737. doi: 10.1111/gcb.15416. ISSN 1354-1013.
- Aguirre, A. Alonso; Tabor, Gary M. (2004-09-01). "Introduction: Marine Vertebrates as Sentinels of Marine Ecosystem Health". EcoHealth. 1 (3): 236–238. doi: 10.1007/s10393-004-0091-9. ISSN 1612-9210.
- Burger, Joanna (1988). Seabirds & Other Marine Vertebrates: Competition, Predation, and Other Interactions. Columbia University Press. ISBN 978-0-231-06362-3.
- Rossi-Santos, Marcos R.; Finkl, Charles W. (2017-08-10). Advances in Marine Vertebrate Research in Latin America: Technological Innovation and Conservation. Springer. ISBN 978-3-319-56985-7.
- Jfire ( talk) 04:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep This strikes me as a fine broad-concept article - a collection of short summaries leading off to in-depth treatement in more specialized articles, and wanted in preference of disambiguations where the topic has sufficient depth. See Wikipedia:Broad-concept article for these tenets. (I do not believe it is necessary to list examples for the term being in use, as done above, as that is trivially obvious and we could fill the page with related textbooks and articles.) -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 08:05, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep A common enough individual subject in online searches and in books etc., just because a topic has a wide subject matter does not seem to warrant deletion but are ideal overview articles. Hardyplants ( talk) 08:48, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I am not piling on for the notability reasoning but to maybe explain why such a grouping is useful. The references that Jfire posts above are all from global change biology, and 'marine vertebrates' as a grouping are useful to explain how ecosystem changes may affect large-bodied taxa (as distinct from e.g. algae/plankton) amongst a broad range of phyla. Consider similarly Megafauna which are also very different species but are usefully classed together to explain their gradual disappearance from the modern day. It shouldn't be seen as a systematic group.
- I agree there's something up with the article that very few of the references actually act to explain the concept of "marine vertebrates". The article just provides examples of some vertebrates that live in the sea, not that "marine vertebrates" is a ecologically-meaningful/useful grouping. Maybe I could start rewriting it with the references Jfire has provided above. Thanks all. NeverRainsButPours ( talk) 20:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep An obviously useful overview article. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 23:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep While not monophyletic, Marine Vertebrates are a broadly used grouping of organisms which warrant a common discussion. See also the useful page on Flying and gliding animals or Marine fungi.
- Ababaian ( talk) 22:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.