- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to dimethyltryptamine. and/or Terence McKenna slakr\ talk / 22:10, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Machine elf
- Machine elf ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The hallucination of "machine elves" is no more notable than "the walls are melting" or "hey, that dog is talking to me". That this type of hallucination has any more meaning than melting walls or talking animals is an ultra fringe theory by a psychonaut that has far less coverage than the melting walls and talking dog hallucinations. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment At minimum, redirect to
Dimethyltryptamine, where they're mentioned. --
Colapeninsula (
talk) 16:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- comment the title had been redirected there, (and to Terence McKenna) but the article was edit warred back into existence, hence we are here. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Merge with Terence McKenna. "Machine elf" isn't notable enough outside of McKenna's writings to be an independent article. The content in Dimethyltryptamine is a good summary of the present machine elf article, but is more appropriate in the article on McKenna than the article on DMT. Plantdrew ( talk) 04:32, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, Merge per Plantdrew.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 04:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- I vote for a complete copy (merge) of all the text in the entire Machine elf-articles into the DMT-article. My primary arguments are:
- * The machine elf-experience is a very reoccurring fenomen for the DMT-drug. Omitting the machine elves from the DMT-article is like failing to mention the fractals in the LSD-article. (I just noticed that fractals are not even mentioned in the LSD article!!)
- * A lot of people have met with and experienced the machine elves, the fenomen is not at all exclusive to Terrence McKeena. It is just that his interpretation of them has been heard the most, and that he named them. Albert Strauss (i think his name was?) also discuss them, and probably a lot of the myths and tales about shamans meeting with Gods, ancestors and spirits have their roots in the "machine elf-experience". (All of this is already mentioned in the machine elf-article. It is easy to just copy all of it to the DMT article.)
-
KaosMuppet (
talk) 14:50, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's cool, as long as all those people don't get their machine elves to participate in this AfD. That would be meat... uh... some kind of puppetry...—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk) 15:37, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- elf-puppetry. --
TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- We masked our presence as an alien invasion, as to not alarm you guys what is really going on.
KaosMuppet (
talk) 03:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- I, for one, welcome our new machine elf overlords.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 03:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- We masked our presence as an alien invasion, as to not alarm you guys what is really going on.
KaosMuppet (
talk) 03:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- elf-puppetry. --
TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's cool, as long as all those people don't get their machine elves to participate in this AfD. That would be meat... uh... some kind of puppetry...—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk) 15:37, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment I, ah ahhhh wp:snowshoes... recuse myselves.— Machine Elf 1735 17:17, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger One ping only 11:42, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Keep/move/merge The phenomenon is clearly notable - see
Mysterious Minds, for example. As this source indicates that the creatures are variously described as elves, dwarves, imps, gremlins, spirits, &c. the current title may not be the best. We should not merge into McKenna who just seems to be one of many people who have written about this.
Andrew (
talk) 17:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- What exactly are you going to be able to write about it? "People on drugs see hallucinations. Sometimes the hallucinations are elfs or trolls or clowns or dwarfs or giants or talking dogs or talking trees or talking elephants or talking chairs or talking carpets or melting walls." Psychonauts claim without any proof, validation or reproducability, that they are actual other dimensional beings".-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: Well it's not just any drug, and it's not talking animals per se (who mostly don't talk) or talking trees (who can't) but, as you say, "actual other dimensional beings" (not just hallucinatory furniture). McK made the putative encounters notable regardless of whether or not they actually transpired, (since he claims they have).— Machine Elf 1735 18:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Keep It's a notable phenomenon written about by various authors. No reason to merge into any article; has enough sources and notability to stand as its own article. Ithinkicahn ( talk) 17:46, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Merge to dimethyltryptamine. As far as I can tell, the phenomenon is discussed only in relation to that drug, although by more than one author (most of whom cite McKenna though). Some of the excessively lengthy quotes should be trimmed though. Someone not using his real name ( talk) 07:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'd merge to Dimethyltryptamine rather than to one researcher's article. Bearian ( talk) 20:48, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to dimethyltryptamine. and/or Terence McKenna slakr\ talk / 22:10, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Machine elf
- Machine elf ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The hallucination of "machine elves" is no more notable than "the walls are melting" or "hey, that dog is talking to me". That this type of hallucination has any more meaning than melting walls or talking animals is an ultra fringe theory by a psychonaut that has far less coverage than the melting walls and talking dog hallucinations. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment At minimum, redirect to
Dimethyltryptamine, where they're mentioned. --
Colapeninsula (
talk) 16:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- comment the title had been redirected there, (and to Terence McKenna) but the article was edit warred back into existence, hence we are here. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
- Merge with Terence McKenna. "Machine elf" isn't notable enough outside of McKenna's writings to be an independent article. The content in Dimethyltryptamine is a good summary of the present machine elf article, but is more appropriate in the article on McKenna than the article on DMT. Plantdrew ( talk) 04:32, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, Merge per Plantdrew.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 04:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- I vote for a complete copy (merge) of all the text in the entire Machine elf-articles into the DMT-article. My primary arguments are:
- * The machine elf-experience is a very reoccurring fenomen for the DMT-drug. Omitting the machine elves from the DMT-article is like failing to mention the fractals in the LSD-article. (I just noticed that fractals are not even mentioned in the LSD article!!)
- * A lot of people have met with and experienced the machine elves, the fenomen is not at all exclusive to Terrence McKeena. It is just that his interpretation of them has been heard the most, and that he named them. Albert Strauss (i think his name was?) also discuss them, and probably a lot of the myths and tales about shamans meeting with Gods, ancestors and spirits have their roots in the "machine elf-experience". (All of this is already mentioned in the machine elf-article. It is easy to just copy all of it to the DMT article.)
-
KaosMuppet (
talk) 14:50, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's cool, as long as all those people don't get their machine elves to participate in this AfD. That would be meat... uh... some kind of puppetry...—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk) 15:37, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- elf-puppetry. --
TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- We masked our presence as an alien invasion, as to not alarm you guys what is really going on.
KaosMuppet (
talk) 03:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- I, for one, welcome our new machine elf overlords.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 03:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- We masked our presence as an alien invasion, as to not alarm you guys what is really going on.
KaosMuppet (
talk) 03:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
- elf-puppetry. --
TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's cool, as long as all those people don't get their machine elves to participate in this AfD. That would be meat... uh... some kind of puppetry...—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk) 15:37, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment I, ah ahhhh wp:snowshoes... recuse myselves.— Machine Elf 1735 17:17, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger One ping only 11:42, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Keep/move/merge The phenomenon is clearly notable - see
Mysterious Minds, for example. As this source indicates that the creatures are variously described as elves, dwarves, imps, gremlins, spirits, &c. the current title may not be the best. We should not merge into McKenna who just seems to be one of many people who have written about this.
Andrew (
talk) 17:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- What exactly are you going to be able to write about it? "People on drugs see hallucinations. Sometimes the hallucinations are elfs or trolls or clowns or dwarfs or giants or talking dogs or talking trees or talking elephants or talking chairs or talking carpets or melting walls." Psychonauts claim without any proof, validation or reproducability, that they are actual other dimensional beings".-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: Well it's not just any drug, and it's not talking animals per se (who mostly don't talk) or talking trees (who can't) but, as you say, "actual other dimensional beings" (not just hallucinatory furniture). McK made the putative encounters notable regardless of whether or not they actually transpired, (since he claims they have).— Machine Elf 1735 18:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Keep It's a notable phenomenon written about by various authors. No reason to merge into any article; has enough sources and notability to stand as its own article. Ithinkicahn ( talk) 17:46, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Merge to dimethyltryptamine. As far as I can tell, the phenomenon is discussed only in relation to that drug, although by more than one author (most of whom cite McKenna though). Some of the excessively lengthy quotes should be trimmed though. Someone not using his real name ( talk) 07:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'd merge to Dimethyltryptamine rather than to one researcher's article. Bearian ( talk) 20:48, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.