- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 23:33, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
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- Liz Ogbu ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
It feels as if Ogbu ought to be notable, but I failed to find it. The current crop of references is poor, and she fails WP:BIO. This was copy pasted from an AFC draft, and has been history merged. The draft had not been accepted, though one might consider that to be irrelevant. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 01:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 01:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. This seems gratuitous to me, and the current crop of references are not poor. See e.g. this coverage in the
New York Times
[1], this from
Architect Magazine
[2], this from
Fast Company
[3], this from
Architecture Australia
[4] and this from
Interior Design
[5]. Ogbu has been featured on
NPR
[6], the
BBC
[7] and
KQED
[8], and interviewed by the
American Institute of Graphic Arts
[9],
Climate One
[10] and Design Museum Magazine
[11]. More coverage can be found in
Fortune Magazine
[12],
Architectural Record
[13],
Next City
[14],
CityLab
[15] and
The Architect's Newspaper
[16]. In sum, coverage of Liz Ogbu in high quality secondary sources, discussing her work in a variety of contexts, has been consistent for the past several years. She is clearly notable.
Generalrelative (
talk)
02:04, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- On the subject of Ogbu's unique contribution to her field, see these quotes:
- From the New York Times:
Ms. Ogbu’s career ... points to a much broader definition of what an "architect" might be and do.
- From Fortune Magazine:
Few people are more committed to the importance of cooperating with communities affected by design than Liz Ogbu.
- From Architect Magazine, where author John Cary is quoted as saying
Liz Ogbu uniquely and bravely uses design to do the hard work of community healing, by acknowledging buried pain and trauma that is too often overlooked.
- From the New York Times:
- Per
WP:ARCHITECT, notability is established if an individual
is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.
The above references would seem to suggest that this applies to Ogbu. The fact that she is in high demand as an interviewee and speaker at design events and universities around the world seems to confirm that she isregarded as an important figure
by her colleagues as well. For a highly selective list, see [17]. Generalrelative ( talk) 14:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- On the subject of Ogbu's unique contribution to her field, see these quotes:
- Keep: As demonstrated by Generalrelative.-- Ipigott ( talk) 07:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: In response the the claims about reliable and useful sourcing, I have created an analysis of the sources that exist in this permalink your own analysis may vary.
- This is here to aid the discussion and to counter the accusation of a gratuitous nomination.
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
09:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- For those without access to the New York Times, Ogbu features in two paragraphs of that piece, one of which consists mostly of a long quote. Note that the uniqueness of her career is singled out for mention:
Liz Ogbu, who trained as an architect at the Harvard Graduate School of Design but describes herself as a "designer, social innovator and urbanist," certainly sees it that way. Ms. Ogbu’s career — she has designed shelters for immigrant day laborers and collaborated on a social enterprise that provides safe, hygienic and convenient sanitation to the homes of low-income urban dwellers in Ghana — points to a much broader definition of what an "architect" might be and do.
As she explained to me in an email: "In many ways, architecture is a profession that has been the epitome of the dominant white patriarchy, from most of the celebrated starchitects to the all too frequent obsession with buildings that are better known for the beauty of the object than the quality of life that they enable. I’m black and female; my existence is the exact opposite of that system. So perhaps it is no accident that as I’ve built my own path in this field, I’ve been committed to a design practice that is rooted in elevating the stories of those who have most often been neglected or silenced."
Generalrelative ( talk) 14:06, 14 November 2021 (UTC)- @
Generalrelative Thank you for placing those paragraphs. If I were to update the table I would note that this is not significant coverage, since it is only two paragraphs, and one is her own words, thus unreliable and primary
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
14:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- That is quite obvious. This is here for others to form their own judgements. Generalrelative ( talk) 14:18, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- @
Generalrelative Thank you for placing those paragraphs. If I were to update the table I would note that this is not significant coverage, since it is only two paragraphs, and one is her own words, thus unreliable and primary
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
14:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep as per WP:GNG - the source table put up by FiddleTimtrent shows at least three independent instances of significant coverage from reliable publications NHCLS ( talk) 12:59, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: She has enough coverage and recognition to establish notability. Moreover, she's interesting, unlike some of the notable people who have BLPs. NightHeron ( talk) 20:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - Meets WP:GNG by Fortune, Architectural Magazine and Architectural Record articles. Minor coverage in plenty of other sources, to me, means that only barely passing GNG (with 3 sig cov pieces, one more than the bare minimum for "multiple") is a-okay by me. Also, could very well meet WP:ARCHITECT 2 (person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique) because her co-creation of what's covered in the Don't Be a Dick section has received a fair amount of coverage. Samsmachado ( talk) 22:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, based on the helpful source assessment table. AFC standards depart significantly from those of the community as a whole and so AFC is best avoided. Thincat ( talk) 09:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep as others have said, the source assessment has been help. Passes WP:GNG. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 22:03, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Speedy keep GNG easily met. Djflem ( talk) 16:52, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, as there is clearly enough coverage to show notability Jackattack1597 ( talk) 16:50, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 23:33, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Liz Ogbu ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
It feels as if Ogbu ought to be notable, but I failed to find it. The current crop of references is poor, and she fails WP:BIO. This was copy pasted from an AFC draft, and has been history merged. The draft had not been accepted, though one might consider that to be irrelevant. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 23:31, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 01:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. TJMSmith ( talk) 01:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. This seems gratuitous to me, and the current crop of references are not poor. See e.g. this coverage in the
New York Times
[1], this from
Architect Magazine
[2], this from
Fast Company
[3], this from
Architecture Australia
[4] and this from
Interior Design
[5]. Ogbu has been featured on
NPR
[6], the
BBC
[7] and
KQED
[8], and interviewed by the
American Institute of Graphic Arts
[9],
Climate One
[10] and Design Museum Magazine
[11]. More coverage can be found in
Fortune Magazine
[12],
Architectural Record
[13],
Next City
[14],
CityLab
[15] and
The Architect's Newspaper
[16]. In sum, coverage of Liz Ogbu in high quality secondary sources, discussing her work in a variety of contexts, has been consistent for the past several years. She is clearly notable.
Generalrelative (
talk)
02:04, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- On the subject of Ogbu's unique contribution to her field, see these quotes:
- From the New York Times:
Ms. Ogbu’s career ... points to a much broader definition of what an "architect" might be and do.
- From Fortune Magazine:
Few people are more committed to the importance of cooperating with communities affected by design than Liz Ogbu.
- From Architect Magazine, where author John Cary is quoted as saying
Liz Ogbu uniquely and bravely uses design to do the hard work of community healing, by acknowledging buried pain and trauma that is too often overlooked.
- From the New York Times:
- Per
WP:ARCHITECT, notability is established if an individual
is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.
The above references would seem to suggest that this applies to Ogbu. The fact that she is in high demand as an interviewee and speaker at design events and universities around the world seems to confirm that she isregarded as an important figure
by her colleagues as well. For a highly selective list, see [17]. Generalrelative ( talk) 14:45, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- On the subject of Ogbu's unique contribution to her field, see these quotes:
- Keep: As demonstrated by Generalrelative.-- Ipigott ( talk) 07:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: In response the the claims about reliable and useful sourcing, I have created an analysis of the sources that exist in this permalink your own analysis may vary.
- This is here to aid the discussion and to counter the accusation of a gratuitous nomination.
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
09:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- For those without access to the New York Times, Ogbu features in two paragraphs of that piece, one of which consists mostly of a long quote. Note that the uniqueness of her career is singled out for mention:
Liz Ogbu, who trained as an architect at the Harvard Graduate School of Design but describes herself as a "designer, social innovator and urbanist," certainly sees it that way. Ms. Ogbu’s career — she has designed shelters for immigrant day laborers and collaborated on a social enterprise that provides safe, hygienic and convenient sanitation to the homes of low-income urban dwellers in Ghana — points to a much broader definition of what an "architect" might be and do.
As she explained to me in an email: "In many ways, architecture is a profession that has been the epitome of the dominant white patriarchy, from most of the celebrated starchitects to the all too frequent obsession with buildings that are better known for the beauty of the object than the quality of life that they enable. I’m black and female; my existence is the exact opposite of that system. So perhaps it is no accident that as I’ve built my own path in this field, I’ve been committed to a design practice that is rooted in elevating the stories of those who have most often been neglected or silenced."
Generalrelative ( talk) 14:06, 14 November 2021 (UTC)- @
Generalrelative Thank you for placing those paragraphs. If I were to update the table I would note that this is not significant coverage, since it is only two paragraphs, and one is her own words, thus unreliable and primary
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
14:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- That is quite obvious. This is here for others to form their own judgements. Generalrelative ( talk) 14:18, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- @
Generalrelative Thank you for placing those paragraphs. If I were to update the table I would note that this is not significant coverage, since it is only two paragraphs, and one is her own words, thus unreliable and primary
FiddleTimtrent
FaddleTalk to me
14:10, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep as per WP:GNG - the source table put up by FiddleTimtrent shows at least three independent instances of significant coverage from reliable publications NHCLS ( talk) 12:59, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: She has enough coverage and recognition to establish notability. Moreover, she's interesting, unlike some of the notable people who have BLPs. NightHeron ( talk) 20:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - Meets WP:GNG by Fortune, Architectural Magazine and Architectural Record articles. Minor coverage in plenty of other sources, to me, means that only barely passing GNG (with 3 sig cov pieces, one more than the bare minimum for "multiple") is a-okay by me. Also, could very well meet WP:ARCHITECT 2 (person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique) because her co-creation of what's covered in the Don't Be a Dick section has received a fair amount of coverage. Samsmachado ( talk) 22:47, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, based on the helpful source assessment table. AFC standards depart significantly from those of the community as a whole and so AFC is best avoided. Thincat ( talk) 09:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep as others have said, the source assessment has been help. Passes WP:GNG. - Kj cheetham ( talk) 22:03, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- Speedy keep GNG easily met. Djflem ( talk) 16:52, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- Keep, as there is clearly enough coverage to show notability Jackattack1597 ( talk) 16:50, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.