- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I am not seeing an appetite for deletion here, rather I see discussion on how the content of the article might be preserved and organised. Some sources have been presented to support the appellation of 'Little Switzerland' for Lynton and Lynmouth and I note that the nominator indicates support for a suggestion put forward for reorganising the content. I’m going to close this as keep and invite editors to continue this discussion elsewhere and to work on this article as part of the normal process of editing to resolve any issues. Pinging participants @ The Parson's Cat, Andrew Davidson, Crouch, Swale, and Thincat: Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 02:50, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Little Switzerland (Lynton & Lynmouth) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I have not been able to find any reliable sources that support the idea that the area around Lynton and Lynmouth is known as Little Switzerland, suggesting that the term is not widely known and unlikely to meet WP:NOTABLE. There are separate articles on Lynton and Lynmouth. The original Wikipedia article dates from November 2015. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 18:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Update: I have just gone through and followed up all the references in the article, making sure they are complete and doing verification checks. HTH The Parson's Cat ( talk) 21:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep The Little Switzerland name is reasonably well-sourced within the article. And the villages are like a twin city, sharing the same local administration, and so an article about this is appropriate. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Andrew Davidson: Thanks, Andrew. I felt that the references in the article didn’t support the statements - for example, the evidence cited for Victorian use of the term ‘Little Switzerland’ was a pair of advertising sites, none of which said anything about this. How do you see things please? The Parson's Cat ( talk) 07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe merge into one of the settlements or alternatively to a new Lynton and Lynmouth? It seems odd to have an article on a descriptive term for a place rather than describing it in the place. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- @
Crouch, Swale:. Thanks - what do you think of moving the verifiable component - which seems small but documents the poets - to the
Exmoor article?
The Parson's Cat (
talk)
07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- The reference to Exmoor appears to be in relation to it, the actual content appears to only relate to Lynton and Lynmouth. There doesn't appear to be anything that isn't about these 2 places in the article. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 09:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- @
Crouch, Swale:. Thanks - what do you think of moving the verifiable component - which seems small but documents the poets - to the
Exmoor article?
The Parson's Cat (
talk)
07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 10:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 10:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I really wish this wasn't being discussed under threat of deletion because there is a lot for discussion other than keep or delete. I remember what at the time (1952) was called the Lynton and Lynmouth disaster (which I still see mentioned on Google) but which WP calls the Lynmouth Flood. I've never heard of "Little Switzerland". So some sort of merge ought to be possible as C,S suggests. Thincat ( talk) 12:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Thincat: As well as the Lynmouth flood article, there is a strong mention in the Lynmouth article. (There's a Lynton article too, and a current discussion about merging them.) What information were you hoping to see kept? If it's not there, I'm sure that's a possibility?
- I'm entirely bemused why anyone should think it a good idea to nominate this article for deletion one day and, the day after, propose a merger into this same topic. Never mind, what happens at AFD is essentially arbitrary. I have other things to think about and will do nothing while deletion may be imminent. Thincat ( talk) 19:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Thincat: I don't see it that way. My understanding is that here: we're discussing here whether to delete an article saying an area of Devon is known as Little Switzerland. In my mind, the question here is to whether there's verifiable evidence of notable usage of the term Little Switzerland.) This is separate from the merge question - this page isn't involved in that. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 10:04, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- The phrase is certainly used. See Devon’s Little Switzerland, which is published by Devon County Council and so reasonably authoritative. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Andrew - that looks to me like promotional material from a tourist board, created on their behalf by a third-party organisation. I wouldn't see it as authorititive - I'd see it as coming under WP:QUESTIONABLE. I agree that some local authority information could be viewed as authoritative, but I don't think this is it. Are there any sources that would count as reliable sources as per WP:RS? The Parson's Cat ( talk) 12:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe there is a conspiracy, led by Bill Bryson, to say the area is (or was) called "Little Switzerland" [1] [2] Or maybe these are also not to be regarded as authoritative or responsible along with the visitor guides to be deprecated. [3] [4] And, by the way, keep Thincat ( talk) 13:09, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
- Your first source - which actually seems to be a chapter by Tristram Hunt - does seem to be our first good source, and I think the second one is reasonable, too. Well done for finding these. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 21:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment If this was my encyclopedia I would (1) close down this AFD, (2) move
Little Switzerland (Lynton & Lynmouth) to
Lynton and Lynmouth over the redirect, (3) merge in from
Lynton and
Lynmouth material that is relevant to both villages, (4) give mention and links out to
Lynton,
Lynmouth,
Lynmouth Flood and
Lynton and Lynmouth Cliff Railway (and others?). I would retain the
Little Switzerland dab page. But if certain people turn up here and vote delete all this work would be undone so it should be kept on hold for now.
Thincat (
talk)
10:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- That could be the outcome of this AfD I would be 100% behind this solution. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 18:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I am not seeing an appetite for deletion here, rather I see discussion on how the content of the article might be preserved and organised. Some sources have been presented to support the appellation of 'Little Switzerland' for Lynton and Lynmouth and I note that the nominator indicates support for a suggestion put forward for reorganising the content. I’m going to close this as keep and invite editors to continue this discussion elsewhere and to work on this article as part of the normal process of editing to resolve any issues. Pinging participants @ The Parson's Cat, Andrew Davidson, Crouch, Swale, and Thincat: Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 02:50, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Little Switzerland (Lynton & Lynmouth) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
I have not been able to find any reliable sources that support the idea that the area around Lynton and Lynmouth is known as Little Switzerland, suggesting that the term is not widely known and unlikely to meet WP:NOTABLE. There are separate articles on Lynton and Lynmouth. The original Wikipedia article dates from November 2015. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 18:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Update: I have just gone through and followed up all the references in the article, making sure they are complete and doing verification checks. HTH The Parson's Cat ( talk) 21:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep The Little Switzerland name is reasonably well-sourced within the article. And the villages are like a twin city, sharing the same local administration, and so an article about this is appropriate. Andrew🐉( talk) 19:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Andrew Davidson: Thanks, Andrew. I felt that the references in the article didn’t support the statements - for example, the evidence cited for Victorian use of the term ‘Little Switzerland’ was a pair of advertising sites, none of which said anything about this. How do you see things please? The Parson's Cat ( talk) 07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 07:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe merge into one of the settlements or alternatively to a new Lynton and Lynmouth? It seems odd to have an article on a descriptive term for a place rather than describing it in the place. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- @
Crouch, Swale:. Thanks - what do you think of moving the verifiable component - which seems small but documents the poets - to the
Exmoor article?
The Parson's Cat (
talk)
07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- The reference to Exmoor appears to be in relation to it, the actual content appears to only relate to Lynton and Lynmouth. There doesn't appear to be anything that isn't about these 2 places in the article. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 09:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
- @
Crouch, Swale:. Thanks - what do you think of moving the verifiable component - which seems small but documents the poets - to the
Exmoor article?
The Parson's Cat (
talk)
07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 11:36, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 10:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 10:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I really wish this wasn't being discussed under threat of deletion because there is a lot for discussion other than keep or delete. I remember what at the time (1952) was called the Lynton and Lynmouth disaster (which I still see mentioned on Google) but which WP calls the Lynmouth Flood. I've never heard of "Little Switzerland". So some sort of merge ought to be possible as C,S suggests. Thincat ( talk) 12:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Thincat: As well as the Lynmouth flood article, there is a strong mention in the Lynmouth article. (There's a Lynton article too, and a current discussion about merging them.) What information were you hoping to see kept? If it's not there, I'm sure that's a possibility?
- I'm entirely bemused why anyone should think it a good idea to nominate this article for deletion one day and, the day after, propose a merger into this same topic. Never mind, what happens at AFD is essentially arbitrary. I have other things to think about and will do nothing while deletion may be imminent. Thincat ( talk) 19:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- @ Thincat: I don't see it that way. My understanding is that here: we're discussing here whether to delete an article saying an area of Devon is known as Little Switzerland. In my mind, the question here is to whether there's verifiable evidence of notable usage of the term Little Switzerland.) This is separate from the merge question - this page isn't involved in that. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 10:04, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- The phrase is certainly used. See Devon’s Little Switzerland, which is published by Devon County Council and so reasonably authoritative. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Andrew - that looks to me like promotional material from a tourist board, created on their behalf by a third-party organisation. I wouldn't see it as authorititive - I'd see it as coming under WP:QUESTIONABLE. I agree that some local authority information could be viewed as authoritative, but I don't think this is it. Are there any sources that would count as reliable sources as per WP:RS? The Parson's Cat ( talk) 12:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe there is a conspiracy, led by Bill Bryson, to say the area is (or was) called "Little Switzerland" [1] [2] Or maybe these are also not to be regarded as authoritative or responsible along with the visitor guides to be deprecated. [3] [4] And, by the way, keep Thincat ( talk) 13:09, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
- Your first source - which actually seems to be a chapter by Tristram Hunt - does seem to be our first good source, and I think the second one is reasonable, too. Well done for finding these. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 21:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment If this was my encyclopedia I would (1) close down this AFD, (2) move
Little Switzerland (Lynton & Lynmouth) to
Lynton and Lynmouth over the redirect, (3) merge in from
Lynton and
Lynmouth material that is relevant to both villages, (4) give mention and links out to
Lynton,
Lynmouth,
Lynmouth Flood and
Lynton and Lynmouth Cliff Railway (and others?). I would retain the
Little Switzerland dab page. But if certain people turn up here and vote delete all this work would be undone so it should be kept on hold for now.
Thincat (
talk)
10:29, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- That could be the outcome of this AfD I would be 100% behind this solution. The Parson's Cat ( talk) 18:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.