The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete.
✗plicit 01:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)reply
This is a POV fork of
List of terrorist incidents and a mess of
WP:OR. Many of the citations used don't refer to the person/s involved in the incidents as being Islamic. Any content that isn't irredeemably biased or original research belongs in List of terrorist incidents along with all other terrorist incidents. This page should be deleted and set to redirect to List of terrorist incidents.
AlanStalk 00:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment: since I was quoted, I would like to clarify that I was not party to any discussions on talk pages relating to these pages, I left a comment at a point when I thought the removal was just the initiative of a single user. --
Dynamo128 (
talk) 06:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
So?-
1Firang (
talk) 05:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC) Blocked editor.
AlanStalk 06:23, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Considering the advice that's been provided to you from administrators I find this odd.
AlanStalk 05:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
If 1Firang is
WP:AGF, then he is allowed to comment on a deletion article. Obviously, admins will hold caution, but he has given good rationale for his !vote regardless of his past (plus it'll help show he's improving as an editor in other areas).
Conyo14 (
talk) 05:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Dynamo128, I wouldn't worry about it. A review of @
1Firang contributions indicates that they had a history of copy and pasting content from one article to another without checking the background or if it was relevant to where they were pasting it to.
AlanStalk 07:15, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete I don't really see a fork, but I don't appreciate the narrow scope to Islam. I'd be fine with having an article for
List of thwarted terrorist attacks. That would be a notable topic not significantly covered by the main list and it avoids placing blame on a group of people.
Conyo14 (
talk) 05:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete: I'm noticing a severe lack of notability in the majority of the entries here, making the list rather pointless. The dead giveaway is the lack of linked articles for most, but beyond that, the very nature of the topic, in many cases simply planned or plotted incidents, or just police tip-offs of 'imminent threats', are not generally, in of themselves, notable anythings.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 06:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Neutral The name is a problem. It should be
Islamic extremist instead of
Islamic. But this information is found elsewhere. Lists of terrorists attacks should list the ones that were thwarted. The second thing listed is a successful, not thwarted, plane hijacking, where they then thwarted their plane to crash it into buildings by fighting with the hijackers and the plane itself just crashed and they all died.
DreamFocus 09:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete. (Comment carried over from WP:NPOVN): I don't agree with using the term "Islamic terrorism" or "Islamist terrorism" in wikivoice, even if there are sources that are normally considered to be reliable that use the term. Numerous religions have had extremists who commit atrocities and terrorist attacks motivated or partly motivated by religious belief. Many such acts in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere in the period of colonialism were justified as a means to spread Christianity. But we don't use the term "Christian terrorism". Similarly, Biblical justification has been used by Israelis when committing horrific acts against Palestinians in order to establish and maintain the occupation. But we don't use the term "Jewish terrorism". AFAIK "Islamic/ist terrorism" is the only term in frequent use that implies a direct connection between a major religion and terrorism, and in that way slanders the vast majority of adherents of Islam, who abhor terrorism. Wikipedia should avoid the term, especially in view of the dangerous growth of Islamophobia in the US and Europe.
NightHeron (
talk) 21:13, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Many such acts in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere in the period of colonialism were justified as a means to spread Christianity. But we don't use the term "Christian terrorism". Similarly, Biblical justification has been used by Israelis when committing horrific acts against Palestinians in order to establish and maintain the occupation. But we don't use the term "Jewish terrorism". We do; see
Christian terrorism and
Jewish religious terrorism (the latter uses "religious" because Jewish is also an ethnic group; this concern doesn't apply to Christian or Islamic).
BilledMammal (
talk) 00:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The article
Christian terrorism has a section on terminology that discusses why the term "Christian terrorism" is disputed and "problematic". AFAIK that term is not in wide use. Neither is "Jewish religious terrorism". I don't think it's appropriate for any of these political-spin terms that attempt to link a religion with terrorism to be used in wikivoice. In some cases a move to a different title or a merging might be best -- for example, merging
Jewish religious terrorism into
Zionist political violence.
NightHeron (
talk) 14:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete.
✗plicit 01:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)reply
This is a POV fork of
List of terrorist incidents and a mess of
WP:OR. Many of the citations used don't refer to the person/s involved in the incidents as being Islamic. Any content that isn't irredeemably biased or original research belongs in List of terrorist incidents along with all other terrorist incidents. This page should be deleted and set to redirect to List of terrorist incidents.
AlanStalk 00:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment: since I was quoted, I would like to clarify that I was not party to any discussions on talk pages relating to these pages, I left a comment at a point when I thought the removal was just the initiative of a single user. --
Dynamo128 (
talk) 06:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
So?-
1Firang (
talk) 05:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC) Blocked editor.
AlanStalk 06:23, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Considering the advice that's been provided to you from administrators I find this odd.
AlanStalk 05:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
If 1Firang is
WP:AGF, then he is allowed to comment on a deletion article. Obviously, admins will hold caution, but he has given good rationale for his !vote regardless of his past (plus it'll help show he's improving as an editor in other areas).
Conyo14 (
talk) 05:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Dynamo128, I wouldn't worry about it. A review of @
1Firang contributions indicates that they had a history of copy and pasting content from one article to another without checking the background or if it was relevant to where they were pasting it to.
AlanStalk 07:15, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete I don't really see a fork, but I don't appreciate the narrow scope to Islam. I'd be fine with having an article for
List of thwarted terrorist attacks. That would be a notable topic not significantly covered by the main list and it avoids placing blame on a group of people.
Conyo14 (
talk) 05:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete: I'm noticing a severe lack of notability in the majority of the entries here, making the list rather pointless. The dead giveaway is the lack of linked articles for most, but beyond that, the very nature of the topic, in many cases simply planned or plotted incidents, or just police tip-offs of 'imminent threats', are not generally, in of themselves, notable anythings.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 06:40, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Neutral The name is a problem. It should be
Islamic extremist instead of
Islamic. But this information is found elsewhere. Lists of terrorists attacks should list the ones that were thwarted. The second thing listed is a successful, not thwarted, plane hijacking, where they then thwarted their plane to crash it into buildings by fighting with the hijackers and the plane itself just crashed and they all died.
DreamFocus 09:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Delete. (Comment carried over from WP:NPOVN): I don't agree with using the term "Islamic terrorism" or "Islamist terrorism" in wikivoice, even if there are sources that are normally considered to be reliable that use the term. Numerous religions have had extremists who commit atrocities and terrorist attacks motivated or partly motivated by religious belief. Many such acts in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere in the period of colonialism were justified as a means to spread Christianity. But we don't use the term "Christian terrorism". Similarly, Biblical justification has been used by Israelis when committing horrific acts against Palestinians in order to establish and maintain the occupation. But we don't use the term "Jewish terrorism". AFAIK "Islamic/ist terrorism" is the only term in frequent use that implies a direct connection between a major religion and terrorism, and in that way slanders the vast majority of adherents of Islam, who abhor terrorism. Wikipedia should avoid the term, especially in view of the dangerous growth of Islamophobia in the US and Europe.
NightHeron (
talk) 21:13, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Many such acts in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere in the period of colonialism were justified as a means to spread Christianity. But we don't use the term "Christian terrorism". Similarly, Biblical justification has been used by Israelis when committing horrific acts against Palestinians in order to establish and maintain the occupation. But we don't use the term "Jewish terrorism". We do; see
Christian terrorism and
Jewish religious terrorism (the latter uses "religious" because Jewish is also an ethnic group; this concern doesn't apply to Christian or Islamic).
BilledMammal (
talk) 00:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The article
Christian terrorism has a section on terminology that discusses why the term "Christian terrorism" is disputed and "problematic". AFAIK that term is not in wide use. Neither is "Jewish religious terrorism". I don't think it's appropriate for any of these political-spin terms that attempt to link a religion with terrorism to be used in wikivoice. In some cases a move to a different title or a merging might be best -- for example, merging
Jewish religious terrorism into
Zionist political violence.
NightHeron (
talk) 14:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.