- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Zoozaz1 talk 03:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
List of programs broadcast by Asianet
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- List of programs broadcast by Asianet ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
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Listcruft, fails WP:NTELEVISION, "Wikipedia is not an electronic program guide" and "A television or radio station's article should not contain a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule" If the station article shouldn't have this information, a stand alone list is not appropriate and neither is a merge. // Timothy :: talk 11:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 11:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 11:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete as clear listcruft. Also, the title doesn't really make sense - "by" would typically mean "created/produced/written by", "broadcast on" is stretching the meaning of the word by quite a bit. -- Paul Carpenter ( talk) 11:39, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Asianet apparently does have original programming; see Category:Asianet (TV channel) original programming. If that’s correct then this can be fixed by retitling and pruning. postdlf ( talk) 11:46, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep- Almost everything on that list is original programming and what isn't is clearly listed under Dubbed shows. List of original programming are standard for any major network that brodcasts nationally. WP:NTV clearly states that The channel lineup of a national service, such as a direct broadcast satellite company which offers the same channel lineup in all areas it serves, may be valid content. This ticks both boxes; i) It is a national channel and ii) The schedule is standard throughout the country. And I don't see how this article or it's title is any different from List of programs broadcast by NBC, List of programs broadcast by CBS etc. It definitely requires some cleanup such as removing the directory style box of longest running shows and a little pruning here and there but it is definitely notable as an article. Sunshine1191 ( talk) 12:05, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply NTV says, "most television stations that produce original content." There is a difference between broadcasting and producing original programming. I don't see where evidence of producing original content, just broadcasting content produced by others. "Most" does not mean all, "may be" does not mean "will be", and a "presumption" is not a guarantee of meeting guidelines. // Timothy :: talk 12:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: Almost every show listed in the article is original programming which means even if the shows may not produced by Star India, they are definitely owned by them and Star holds all the rights to them. In this case both might be produced or might not be produced are speculations and even in the case that production of the shows has been outsourced to individual production houses, they have still been produced for Star. The fact here is that the shows have had their first telecast on Asianet not just in India but all areas the channel services including the UK and Middle-east. Star India is a fully owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney company and knowing Disney there is almost no way they don't have a stake in each and every one of their assets (shows in this case). Rename the article to List of programs broadcast on Asianet if it pleases the nom, but the article is definitely notable. Also, it might be helpful to get opinions by editors from India, who are more familiar with the TV production process in the country. TheRedDomitor ( talk) 13:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply see my comment above. There is not evidence that they produce original programming, only broadcast content produced by others. This is not speculation, it what the article state. They do not inherit notability from The Walt Disney Company. The statement "Rename the article to List of programs broadcast on Asianet" is odd because the article is already titled "List of programs broadcast by Asianet". Guidelines never say something is notable, they says they may be, might or may be presumed. In this case there is no evidence they produce their own content and there are not RS showing SIGCOV for their notability. //
Timothy ::
talk
14:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Some of the TV series articles listed clearly state that they premiered on Asianet, so we don't just have this list's internal content to go by. That and, again, the fact that we have a populated category suggests that this list nomination is at best premature. postdlf ( talk) 17:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - whilst the article doesn’t make it very clear, it does appear to broadcast a reasonable amount of original programming to justify the list. Foxnpichu ( talk) 17:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment- I have already tried explaining to the nom once before at a previous Afd but they either don't seem to understand or don't want to understand that TV production in India works differently in India as compared to the US and the guidelines that have been forged keeping Western TV production in mind cannot be applied here to the T, as they are different countries and different industries. In India individual production houses first come up with concepts which they pitch to a tv channel, Asianet in this case. If the channel finds the concept and cast involved promising they commision the series. While the physical production of the series is handled by the production house, they sign over all attributions of CREATION, OWNERSHIP, COPYRIGHTS, PART-RESIDUALS and DISTRIBUTION to the channel in exchange for coverage of production costs and a small share in revenue/profits and residuals generated. So Yes, even if we take "production" in the literal sense the shows are produced by the channels in-part as they are completely funded by them. And as has already been pointed out thrice above by different editors, 80 percent of the shows in the list have had their premieres on Asianet not just in India but abroad too and are aired and distributed as Asianet original programming. Sunshine1191 ( talk) 05:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply as you confirm above, the programing listed here is not produced by them, but is broadcast by them. This happens in other nations/areas as well, but if you feel the guidelines should be changed to reflect differences between nations, you should discuss it there. But this article clearly fails per WP:NTELEVISION, "Wikipedia is not an electronic program guide" and "A television or radio station's article should not contain a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule" — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBlue ( talk • contribs)
- That's half the truth. Sunshine1191 also stated above that the shows are completely funded by the channel to produce and the channel makes all executive decisions regarding them. Funding is one of the most important aspects of tv production as without money...well obviously nothing can happen. Ownership of the shows plus a significant part in producing them makes it original programming. And this not a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule, it is a simple list of past and present shows aired by the network which is standard for all networks around that world which broadcast originals nationally. Passes WP:NTV in my view. TheRedDomitor ( talk) 09:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- The nom needs to stop flooding this discussion with the same language over and over that he doesn’t understand. Listing what series were originally broadcast on a particular network is not a “program guide” or “schedule”. Whether another company produced it for that network is irrelevant, that’s not what we’re looking at when we index “original programming”. postdlf ( talk) 12:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep agree per User:TheRedDomitor. VocalIndia ( talk) 16:07, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Network licenses (though does not produce) original programming which is properly listed here. I have cut the as-always-seems-to-be-unsourced 'upcoming' section per WP:PROMO. Nate • ( chatter) 19:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per above. Capitals00 ( talk) 10:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
- Can somebody please close this AfD? It has gone on for ages and I think he have enough consensus to keep the article now. Foxnpichu ( talk) 14:16, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Zoozaz1 talk 03:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
List of programs broadcast by Asianet
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- List of programs broadcast by Asianet ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Listcruft, fails WP:NTELEVISION, "Wikipedia is not an electronic program guide" and "A television or radio station's article should not contain a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule" If the station article shouldn't have this information, a stand alone list is not appropriate and neither is a merge. // Timothy :: talk 11:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 11:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 11:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete as clear listcruft. Also, the title doesn't really make sense - "by" would typically mean "created/produced/written by", "broadcast on" is stretching the meaning of the word by quite a bit. -- Paul Carpenter ( talk) 11:39, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Asianet apparently does have original programming; see Category:Asianet (TV channel) original programming. If that’s correct then this can be fixed by retitling and pruning. postdlf ( talk) 11:46, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep- Almost everything on that list is original programming and what isn't is clearly listed under Dubbed shows. List of original programming are standard for any major network that brodcasts nationally. WP:NTV clearly states that The channel lineup of a national service, such as a direct broadcast satellite company which offers the same channel lineup in all areas it serves, may be valid content. This ticks both boxes; i) It is a national channel and ii) The schedule is standard throughout the country. And I don't see how this article or it's title is any different from List of programs broadcast by NBC, List of programs broadcast by CBS etc. It definitely requires some cleanup such as removing the directory style box of longest running shows and a little pruning here and there but it is definitely notable as an article. Sunshine1191 ( talk) 12:05, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply NTV says, "most television stations that produce original content." There is a difference between broadcasting and producing original programming. I don't see where evidence of producing original content, just broadcasting content produced by others. "Most" does not mean all, "may be" does not mean "will be", and a "presumption" is not a guarantee of meeting guidelines. // Timothy :: talk 12:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: Almost every show listed in the article is original programming which means even if the shows may not produced by Star India, they are definitely owned by them and Star holds all the rights to them. In this case both might be produced or might not be produced are speculations and even in the case that production of the shows has been outsourced to individual production houses, they have still been produced for Star. The fact here is that the shows have had their first telecast on Asianet not just in India but all areas the channel services including the UK and Middle-east. Star India is a fully owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney company and knowing Disney there is almost no way they don't have a stake in each and every one of their assets (shows in this case). Rename the article to List of programs broadcast on Asianet if it pleases the nom, but the article is definitely notable. Also, it might be helpful to get opinions by editors from India, who are more familiar with the TV production process in the country. TheRedDomitor ( talk) 13:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply see my comment above. There is not evidence that they produce original programming, only broadcast content produced by others. This is not speculation, it what the article state. They do not inherit notability from The Walt Disney Company. The statement "Rename the article to List of programs broadcast on Asianet" is odd because the article is already titled "List of programs broadcast by Asianet". Guidelines never say something is notable, they says they may be, might or may be presumed. In this case there is no evidence they produce their own content and there are not RS showing SIGCOV for their notability. //
Timothy ::
talk
14:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Some of the TV series articles listed clearly state that they premiered on Asianet, so we don't just have this list's internal content to go by. That and, again, the fact that we have a populated category suggests that this list nomination is at best premature. postdlf ( talk) 17:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - whilst the article doesn’t make it very clear, it does appear to broadcast a reasonable amount of original programming to justify the list. Foxnpichu ( talk) 17:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment- I have already tried explaining to the nom once before at a previous Afd but they either don't seem to understand or don't want to understand that TV production in India works differently in India as compared to the US and the guidelines that have been forged keeping Western TV production in mind cannot be applied here to the T, as they are different countries and different industries. In India individual production houses first come up with concepts which they pitch to a tv channel, Asianet in this case. If the channel finds the concept and cast involved promising they commision the series. While the physical production of the series is handled by the production house, they sign over all attributions of CREATION, OWNERSHIP, COPYRIGHTS, PART-RESIDUALS and DISTRIBUTION to the channel in exchange for coverage of production costs and a small share in revenue/profits and residuals generated. So Yes, even if we take "production" in the literal sense the shows are produced by the channels in-part as they are completely funded by them. And as has already been pointed out thrice above by different editors, 80 percent of the shows in the list have had their premieres on Asianet not just in India but abroad too and are aired and distributed as Asianet original programming. Sunshine1191 ( talk) 05:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Reply as you confirm above, the programing listed here is not produced by them, but is broadcast by them. This happens in other nations/areas as well, but if you feel the guidelines should be changed to reflect differences between nations, you should discuss it there. But this article clearly fails per WP:NTELEVISION, "Wikipedia is not an electronic program guide" and "A television or radio station's article should not contain a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule" — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBlue ( talk • contribs)
- That's half the truth. Sunshine1191 also stated above that the shows are completely funded by the channel to produce and the channel makes all executive decisions regarding them. Funding is one of the most important aspects of tv production as without money...well obviously nothing can happen. Ownership of the shows plus a significant part in producing them makes it original programming. And this not a comprehensive listing of the station's entire broadcast schedule, it is a simple list of past and present shows aired by the network which is standard for all networks around that world which broadcast originals nationally. Passes WP:NTV in my view. TheRedDomitor ( talk) 09:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- The nom needs to stop flooding this discussion with the same language over and over that he doesn’t understand. Listing what series were originally broadcast on a particular network is not a “program guide” or “schedule”. Whether another company produced it for that network is irrelevant, that’s not what we’re looking at when we index “original programming”. postdlf ( talk) 12:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep agree per User:TheRedDomitor. VocalIndia ( talk) 16:07, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Network licenses (though does not produce) original programming which is properly listed here. I have cut the as-always-seems-to-be-unsourced 'upcoming' section per WP:PROMO. Nate • ( chatter) 19:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per above. Capitals00 ( talk) 10:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
- Can somebody please close this AfD? It has gone on for ages and I think he have enough consensus to keep the article now. Foxnpichu ( talk) 14:16, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.