- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Secret account 15:14, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- List of Ultra Seven monsters ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is an overly in-depth list of plot details that does not need to exist in its current form. The characters mostly only appear in a single episode each, so an episode list would be the ideal place to describe them as usually done with non-reoccurring plot elements. There is no real use in merging the information or converting this article due to the nature of the writing, so someone would be better off to start from scratch were they to make an episode list. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Ultraman Mebius monsters for a similar list from this series. It also appears that someone has added content from a deleted article ( Miclas into List of Ultra Seven monsters#Miclas), so someone may want to delete those edits or whatever is usually done. TTN ( talk) 21:58, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 November 17. — cyberbot I NotifyOnline 22:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep we don't delete articles because an editor believes they have overly detailed plot details. We work to improve such articles. The Ultra universe is second only to Doctor Who as a TV series. There's been a recent campaign to remove this material, with the disingenuous argument made that since other material has been removed by merger into this article, this article should be deleted as well. That's absurd, and contradicts the prior merger votes. μηδείς ( talk) 22:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Articles are deleted because they do not meet policies and guidelines. There is a limit to the amount of plot we can detail per WP:PLOT, and this level of depth is going overboard. Character lists are one thing, but excessive detailing of minor plot elements is something for Wikia, not a general encyclopedia. The supposed importance of the series does not matter, nor does the idea of improving it without any basis. If there are reliable, third party sources providing real world information for the topic, then the topic may be viable, but it is overly excessive until then. TTN ( talk) 22:19, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- This is a list that was created rather than having all the material placed in the ultraseven article. Merging it back there would be absurd. We have also just had material from various other articles merged into this one as a result of deletion discussions. Given the material is about monsters from TV shows, I am not sure what you would not consider a "plot element". This material is no different from
List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens or
List of Middle-earth animals or
List of Middle-earth peoples. It is all plot by the nature of the material.
μηδείς (
talk) 22:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- The content should not exist on this site in the first place, so there is no need for it to be merged anywhere unless converted into an episode list (though it would not be very useful in doing such). Articles supported by reliable sources to show their real world significance are those that need to be detailed, while others, what I'm describing as plot elements, are simply elements used in plot summaries without any other significance. Things that appear only in a single episode, chapter, segment, ect of a piece of fiction don't need to be listed outside of describing that segment, and the fact that there are other similar lists does not mean this one needs to exist. TTN ( talk) 22:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- This is a list that was created rather than having all the material placed in the ultraseven article. Merging it back there would be absurd. We have also just had material from various other articles merged into this one as a result of deletion discussions. Given the material is about monsters from TV shows, I am not sure what you would not consider a "plot element". This material is no different from
List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens or
List of Middle-earth animals or
List of Middle-earth peoples. It is all plot by the nature of the material.
μηδείς (
talk) 22:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete- excessive, unsourced plot summary. Does not meet WP:V or WP:N, so is unsuitable for a standalone article. A merge is inappropriate because the potential merge targets already have more than enough plot summary and would only be made worse by the introduction of large amounts of badly-written, unsourced junk. Reyk YO! 23:29, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Primary sources are fine for factual descriptions of their own contents. We do not need a source beyond the credits of Star Wars to say Carrie Fisher played Princess Leia or that the Death Star was blwon up at the end. Notability comes from the main article the list was created from. "Junk" exposes the bias here, just as TTN's bad faith edit deleting the entire page and redirecting it to an irrelevant closed deletion discussion about a different series.
μηδείς (
talk) 00:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- You are wrong. List articles do not WP:INHERIT notability from the parent, and it is not acceptable to make baseless and false accusations of bad faith and bias against people. Describing the contents as "junk" is just calling a spade a spade. Reyk YO! 01:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Primary sources are fine for factual descriptions of their own contents. We do not need a source beyond the credits of Star Wars to say Carrie Fisher played Princess Leia or that the Death Star was blwon up at the end. Notability comes from the main article the list was created from. "Junk" exposes the bias here, just as TTN's bad faith edit deleting the entire page and redirecting it to an irrelevant closed deletion discussion about a different series.
μηδείς (
talk) 00:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete There are two problems with this list. The first is that it's in remarkably poor shape. That, by itself, isn't a valid criteria for deletion. The second problem is that the selection methodology for the list is not in line with established practices. A "list of characters in a fiction franchise" type article does not list every minor character that has ever appeared in the franchise; instead it restricts itself to the main characters and the recurring, plot-important secondary characters. Look at List of Naruto characters, for example. That series is massive, and that is reflected in the the number of characters in that list. However every character in that list is either a major recurring character with significant face time across several books/seasons, or a major character that appears only in one plot arc but has an important role and significant face time across that plot arc. When putting together that list, there are dozens of chracters that didn't make the cut. Based on my skimming through the various Ultraman articles on Wikipedia, there are perhaps four or five monsters that appear in more than two episodes, and the rest are " monster of the week" type characters. Those four or five should be merged with the characters at Characters — The Ultra Garrison in a List of Ultra Seven characters article that shows a proper degree of selectivity. Whether that happens or not, as a topic, this article is not suitable for inclusion and should be deleted. Sven Manguard Wha? 04:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - per Sven Manguard. Steel1943 ( talk) 03:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Secret account 15:14, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- List of Ultra Seven monsters ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This is an overly in-depth list of plot details that does not need to exist in its current form. The characters mostly only appear in a single episode each, so an episode list would be the ideal place to describe them as usually done with non-reoccurring plot elements. There is no real use in merging the information or converting this article due to the nature of the writing, so someone would be better off to start from scratch were they to make an episode list. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Ultraman Mebius monsters for a similar list from this series. It also appears that someone has added content from a deleted article ( Miclas into List of Ultra Seven monsters#Miclas), so someone may want to delete those edits or whatever is usually done. TTN ( talk) 21:58, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 November 17. — cyberbot I NotifyOnline 22:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep we don't delete articles because an editor believes they have overly detailed plot details. We work to improve such articles. The Ultra universe is second only to Doctor Who as a TV series. There's been a recent campaign to remove this material, with the disingenuous argument made that since other material has been removed by merger into this article, this article should be deleted as well. That's absurd, and contradicts the prior merger votes. μηδείς ( talk) 22:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Articles are deleted because they do not meet policies and guidelines. There is a limit to the amount of plot we can detail per WP:PLOT, and this level of depth is going overboard. Character lists are one thing, but excessive detailing of minor plot elements is something for Wikia, not a general encyclopedia. The supposed importance of the series does not matter, nor does the idea of improving it without any basis. If there are reliable, third party sources providing real world information for the topic, then the topic may be viable, but it is overly excessive until then. TTN ( talk) 22:19, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- This is a list that was created rather than having all the material placed in the ultraseven article. Merging it back there would be absurd. We have also just had material from various other articles merged into this one as a result of deletion discussions. Given the material is about monsters from TV shows, I am not sure what you would not consider a "plot element". This material is no different from
List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens or
List of Middle-earth animals or
List of Middle-earth peoples. It is all plot by the nature of the material.
μηδείς (
talk) 22:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- The content should not exist on this site in the first place, so there is no need for it to be merged anywhere unless converted into an episode list (though it would not be very useful in doing such). Articles supported by reliable sources to show their real world significance are those that need to be detailed, while others, what I'm describing as plot elements, are simply elements used in plot summaries without any other significance. Things that appear only in a single episode, chapter, segment, ect of a piece of fiction don't need to be listed outside of describing that segment, and the fact that there are other similar lists does not mean this one needs to exist. TTN ( talk) 22:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- This is a list that was created rather than having all the material placed in the ultraseven article. Merging it back there would be absurd. We have also just had material from various other articles merged into this one as a result of deletion discussions. Given the material is about monsters from TV shows, I am not sure what you would not consider a "plot element". This material is no different from
List of Doctor Who universe creatures and aliens or
List of Middle-earth animals or
List of Middle-earth peoples. It is all plot by the nature of the material.
μηδείς (
talk) 22:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete- excessive, unsourced plot summary. Does not meet WP:V or WP:N, so is unsuitable for a standalone article. A merge is inappropriate because the potential merge targets already have more than enough plot summary and would only be made worse by the introduction of large amounts of badly-written, unsourced junk. Reyk YO! 23:29, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
- Primary sources are fine for factual descriptions of their own contents. We do not need a source beyond the credits of Star Wars to say Carrie Fisher played Princess Leia or that the Death Star was blwon up at the end. Notability comes from the main article the list was created from. "Junk" exposes the bias here, just as TTN's bad faith edit deleting the entire page and redirecting it to an irrelevant closed deletion discussion about a different series.
μηδείς (
talk) 00:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- You are wrong. List articles do not WP:INHERIT notability from the parent, and it is not acceptable to make baseless and false accusations of bad faith and bias against people. Describing the contents as "junk" is just calling a spade a spade. Reyk YO! 01:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Primary sources are fine for factual descriptions of their own contents. We do not need a source beyond the credits of Star Wars to say Carrie Fisher played Princess Leia or that the Death Star was blwon up at the end. Notability comes from the main article the list was created from. "Junk" exposes the bias here, just as TTN's bad faith edit deleting the entire page and redirecting it to an irrelevant closed deletion discussion about a different series.
μηδείς (
talk) 00:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete There are two problems with this list. The first is that it's in remarkably poor shape. That, by itself, isn't a valid criteria for deletion. The second problem is that the selection methodology for the list is not in line with established practices. A "list of characters in a fiction franchise" type article does not list every minor character that has ever appeared in the franchise; instead it restricts itself to the main characters and the recurring, plot-important secondary characters. Look at List of Naruto characters, for example. That series is massive, and that is reflected in the the number of characters in that list. However every character in that list is either a major recurring character with significant face time across several books/seasons, or a major character that appears only in one plot arc but has an important role and significant face time across that plot arc. When putting together that list, there are dozens of chracters that didn't make the cut. Based on my skimming through the various Ultraman articles on Wikipedia, there are perhaps four or five monsters that appear in more than two episodes, and the rest are " monster of the week" type characters. Those four or five should be merged with the characters at Characters — The Ultra Garrison in a List of Ultra Seven characters article that shows a proper degree of selectivity. Whether that happens or not, as a topic, this article is not suitable for inclusion and should be deleted. Sven Manguard Wha? 04:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - per Sven Manguard. Steel1943 ( talk) 03:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.