- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Kurykh ( talk) 06:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- List of Texas Longhorns football games ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This "list of the greatest games in the history of the Texas Longhorns football program" has multiple issues, including:
- Unclear inclusion criteria: The single source is a dead link, but I recovered it from the Internet Archive here. According to the source, "In honor of the Centennial Year of Texas Football, a Blue Ribbon committee met in the summer of 1992 to select great games and moments in Texas Football history. These were their selections. (Additional games from 1992-present have been added to the list.)". The composition of the Blue Ribbon committee is unclear, as is the procedure by which post-1992 games were selected. Additionally, it does not appear that there is a 1:1 relationship between the entries in the source and the article, meaning that some other editorial filter was applied to the article that may constitute original research.
- Close paraphrasing: It appears several entries are closely paraphrased from the sole source. For example, the very first entry in the list: "Texas' very first football game was an astounding upset victory. The varsity team sent a band of 15 players to face the 'Champions of Texas' Dallas Football Club, a team that had been undefeated for several years. The game ended with an 18-16 upset victory for Texas. From there, Texas went undefeated in its first season of football." Source: "Texas' very first football game was an astounding upset, as the varsity sent a band of 15 or 16 players (the exact number was not recorded) north to face the 'Champions of Texas' Dallas Foot Ball Club. The Dallas team, which had been undefeated for several years and unscored on for quite some time as well, fell to the boys from Texas, 18-16. The Thanksgiving Day battle was witnessed by nearly 2,000 fans, the largest crowd to see a Dallas game up to that time.'
- Unencyclopedic tone: Probably because the article is solely sourced to an internal University of Texas website, the entire text is very pro-Texas, to the point where adherence to WP:NPOV is questionable.
Due to all of the above issues, I recommend deleting the list and starting over. – Grondemar 17:59, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:46, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and/or merge appropriate contents into History of Texas Longhorns football. Lizard ( talk) 18:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:FANCRUFT. Also (if I could get the link to work) content appears to be uplifted from a single source, which may also violate WP:NOTMIRROR. Alternatively the list would constitute original research. Ajf773 ( talk) 19:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete articles of individual seasons for the team work just fine for what this article is trying to do. South Nashua ( talk) 21:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- I dunno. It could work if we change the inclusion criteria, per WP:CLT. Category:Texas Longhorns football games (and its subcategory Category:Texas Longhorns football bowl games) contain a respectable amount of articles, so changing it to a neutral list of notable Texas games (which we have articles on) perhaps in table format could work. That said, it's probably more work than it's worth, and would probably descend back into the current mess sooner or later. (Also noting that because of the copyvio, the suggestion to delete and then start over is sound.) ansh 666 02:11, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- Keep lists are useful for navigation and research. If we delete the list here, the information would be included on the main page which would just make that article more clumsy and cumbersome. As a separate list, it's easier to maintain.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: How is this article any more useful for navigation or research purposes than
List of historically significant Michigan Wolverines football games, an article that you successfully nominated for deletion back in 2011? (I thought the Michigan list was pretty solid, but it got shot down.)
Cbl62 (
talk)
00:06, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'd say that the difference is in the title - the Michigan one contains "historically significant" while this one makes no such distinction. As such this list does not make pretensions of being a compilation of all "historically significant" Texas games, notable or not, but can be focused into a list of, say, all Texas games which are notable (i.e. all that have articles), which is what I suggest above. It's more or less a
WP:LISTN argument.
ansh
666
03:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- That was about six years ago--without revisiting the original article, I guess I would say that I probably have changed my mind through the course of 6 years discussion on Wikipedia.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:39, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'd say that the difference is in the title - the Michigan one contains "historically significant" while this one makes no such distinction. As such this list does not make pretensions of being a compilation of all "historically significant" Texas games, notable or not, but can be focused into a list of, say, all Texas games which are notable (i.e. all that have articles), which is what I suggest above. It's more or less a
WP:LISTN argument.
ansh
666
03:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: I'd agree that in theory a list of games would be useful for navigation and research. The problem is this list is not useful for navigation since it is mostly unwikified (possibly because of close paraphrasing / copyvio?), and of minimal value for research as it cites only one source. It's also hard to say the list is "easier to maintain" when it doesn't appear the list has been updated since 2009.
–
Grondemar
00:53, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- Copyvio would be an issue, I'll be neutral on that for now. If it's there, then delete. Otherwise, what you mention are editing issues and not deletion issues.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 05:39, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: How is this article any more useful for navigation or research purposes than
List of historically significant Michigan Wolverines football games, an article that you successfully nominated for deletion back in 2011? (I thought the Michigan list was pretty solid, but it got shot down.)
Cbl62 (
talk)
00:06, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Kurykh ( talk) 06:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- List of Texas Longhorns football games ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This "list of the greatest games in the history of the Texas Longhorns football program" has multiple issues, including:
- Unclear inclusion criteria: The single source is a dead link, but I recovered it from the Internet Archive here. According to the source, "In honor of the Centennial Year of Texas Football, a Blue Ribbon committee met in the summer of 1992 to select great games and moments in Texas Football history. These were their selections. (Additional games from 1992-present have been added to the list.)". The composition of the Blue Ribbon committee is unclear, as is the procedure by which post-1992 games were selected. Additionally, it does not appear that there is a 1:1 relationship between the entries in the source and the article, meaning that some other editorial filter was applied to the article that may constitute original research.
- Close paraphrasing: It appears several entries are closely paraphrased from the sole source. For example, the very first entry in the list: "Texas' very first football game was an astounding upset victory. The varsity team sent a band of 15 players to face the 'Champions of Texas' Dallas Football Club, a team that had been undefeated for several years. The game ended with an 18-16 upset victory for Texas. From there, Texas went undefeated in its first season of football." Source: "Texas' very first football game was an astounding upset, as the varsity sent a band of 15 or 16 players (the exact number was not recorded) north to face the 'Champions of Texas' Dallas Foot Ball Club. The Dallas team, which had been undefeated for several years and unscored on for quite some time as well, fell to the boys from Texas, 18-16. The Thanksgiving Day battle was witnessed by nearly 2,000 fans, the largest crowd to see a Dallas game up to that time.'
- Unencyclopedic tone: Probably because the article is solely sourced to an internal University of Texas website, the entire text is very pro-Texas, to the point where adherence to WP:NPOV is questionable.
Due to all of the above issues, I recommend deleting the list and starting over. – Grondemar 17:59, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 19:46, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete per nom and/or merge appropriate contents into History of Texas Longhorns football. Lizard ( talk) 18:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:FANCRUFT. Also (if I could get the link to work) content appears to be uplifted from a single source, which may also violate WP:NOTMIRROR. Alternatively the list would constitute original research. Ajf773 ( talk) 19:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Delete articles of individual seasons for the team work just fine for what this article is trying to do. South Nashua ( talk) 21:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- I dunno. It could work if we change the inclusion criteria, per WP:CLT. Category:Texas Longhorns football games (and its subcategory Category:Texas Longhorns football bowl games) contain a respectable amount of articles, so changing it to a neutral list of notable Texas games (which we have articles on) perhaps in table format could work. That said, it's probably more work than it's worth, and would probably descend back into the current mess sooner or later. (Also noting that because of the copyvio, the suggestion to delete and then start over is sound.) ansh 666 02:11, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- Keep lists are useful for navigation and research. If we delete the list here, the information would be included on the main page which would just make that article more clumsy and cumbersome. As a separate list, it's easier to maintain.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: How is this article any more useful for navigation or research purposes than
List of historically significant Michigan Wolverines football games, an article that you successfully nominated for deletion back in 2011? (I thought the Michigan list was pretty solid, but it got shot down.)
Cbl62 (
talk)
00:06, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'd say that the difference is in the title - the Michigan one contains "historically significant" while this one makes no such distinction. As such this list does not make pretensions of being a compilation of all "historically significant" Texas games, notable or not, but can be focused into a list of, say, all Texas games which are notable (i.e. all that have articles), which is what I suggest above. It's more or less a
WP:LISTN argument.
ansh
666
03:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- That was about six years ago--without revisiting the original article, I guess I would say that I probably have changed my mind through the course of 6 years discussion on Wikipedia.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 21:39, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'd say that the difference is in the title - the Michigan one contains "historically significant" while this one makes no such distinction. As such this list does not make pretensions of being a compilation of all "historically significant" Texas games, notable or not, but can be focused into a list of, say, all Texas games which are notable (i.e. all that have articles), which is what I suggest above. It's more or less a
WP:LISTN argument.
ansh
666
03:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: I'd agree that in theory a list of games would be useful for navigation and research. The problem is this list is not useful for navigation since it is mostly unwikified (possibly because of close paraphrasing / copyvio?), and of minimal value for research as it cites only one source. It's also hard to say the list is "easier to maintain" when it doesn't appear the list has been updated since 2009.
–
Grondemar
00:53, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- Copyvio would be an issue, I'll be neutral on that for now. If it's there, then delete. Otherwise, what you mention are editing issues and not deletion issues.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 05:39, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- @
Paulmcdonald: How is this article any more useful for navigation or research purposes than
List of historically significant Michigan Wolverines football games, an article that you successfully nominated for deletion back in 2011? (I thought the Michigan list was pretty solid, but it got shot down.)
Cbl62 (
talk)
00:06, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.