- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- List of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers home media releases ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This list seems to fall foul of WP:NOTIINFO and WP:NOTGUIDE. The sources are just links to Amazon listings internationally that show that the releases exist and are/were for sale, but not that this is particularly a notable article on its own to garner its separate coverage (or any coverage for that matter). — Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:09, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:14, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep I just started the page
today and this seems to me to be no good faith or anything. As there are other pages in existence that list home media releases and uses Amazon.com as a source (Eg.
List of Hannah Montana DVDs and
List of Family Guy DVDs) so I do not see any reason why this should not be allowed. It seems to me that Ryūlóng is acting like he owns Wikipedia as he just went and decided on himself that the page should be redirected reverted my edits and that to me is not
WP:Good Faith and personally he should have brought this up on the talk page instead of disregarding the guidelines set up on Wikipedia and just nominating this for deletion. That is just plain rude and uncalled for.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Add on: Also if he had looked at the
talk page he would have seen that I asked for help to find sources that need them. If it needs other sources why can't he just go and post more sources other then the Amazon.com ones? There is no need to delete the page.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- These are unimportant points that do not address the issue at hand. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument here. And for someone who says that I'm not assuming good faith you do a lot of the same by saying I have some sort of WP:OWN claims. I've not disregarded any guidelines here by sending this to AFD. I do not think this article should exist. I am seeking the community's input on this matter to see if they agree or disagree. And I am not required to seek out sources as you requested. It is up to the people who think this page should be retained to provide reliable sources that show that the topic is notable.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Extended discussion moved to talk— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 21:21, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Add on: Also if he had looked at the
talk page he would have seen that I asked for help to find sources that need them. If it needs other sources why can't he just go and post more sources other then the Amazon.com ones? There is no need to delete the page.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Question to nominator Do you think this topic should not have an article or are you just concerned with the lack of reliable sources? Given how young this article is perhaps it can be given some time for improvement? Chillum 21:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
-
WP:NOR says If no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article about it.. Lists are subject to this to. If there are any reliable sources that cover the topic of listing "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers Home Media releases" then the article should stand. Not just supporting individual elements of the list but supporting the topic itself.
Chillum 21:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- It does not violate WP:NOR Chillum, as it has more then just sources by Amazon.com if you look at the references you can see there is sources by The Hollywood Reporter, Tvshowsondvd.com, Amazon.com (which I agree is the main source and more could be found if the page was given a chance) and trove.nla.gov.au. that is four sources in total. Bumblebee9999 ( talk) 21:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as notable releases, Passes GNG. – Davey2010 • (talk) 23:50, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep – Somewhat disruptive AfD; passes GNG. United States Man ( talk) 04:49, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Weak keep The nomination links to policy but does not make it clear what the actual concern is. The only thing I can gather for sure is that there is concern about sources. I agree there are problems but I do believe they can be solved. The subject is notable and surely has been commented on by numerous sources. If this is still not sourced better in a few months I may go the other way at the next AfD. Chillum 04:59, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom. Why is it so hard to understand notability? Amazon retail links do not demonstrate notability, we need "significant coverage" in reliable sources. ukexpat ( talk) 12:04, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep The list has to be notable, not each DVD on the list. Given this is a very popular show, and the release on DVD was covered by independent sources, I would say a list is notable in the vein of
The Simpsons shorts (a
featured list). --
NeilN
talk to me 13:26, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's the point. There's nothing out there that says the entirety of the Power Rangers VHS or DVD releases is notable. And there was only one independent source that covered the release to DVD (I'm still not convinced TVShowsonDVD counts as a reliable source). This is a footnote on an article at best because I see no encyclopedic merit to having a list of every DVD of a whole TV series.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 09:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ryulong: Please read
WP:BEFORE, point D. It seems you have not done this as a quick search returned
[1],
[2],
[3] --
NeilN
talk to me 15:03, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's still not significant coverage.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:48, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Entire articles about the releases are not significant coverage? --
NeilN
talk to me 15:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Those are not about Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (the first 3 seasons). They're about the entirety of all 20+ years of the Power Rangers franchise.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link is to a different set. I'm going to ask this explicitly: Have you looked for sources? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link still is not just MMPR which is what this article is about. And why would I look for sources when all I'm going to get is "you can buy the DVDs here" as results? We need sources explicitly about the releases of the first 3 seasons in general and not the 20 other seasons that followed that were not "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers". ANd also your comparison to
The Simpsons shorts is not valid. That's a list of episodes. This is a list of DVDs in 3 different regions sourced to being able to buy the DVDs in those particular regions rather than any sort of discussion about just the video releases for this small subset of a larger franchise. This article might have some use if it was beyond MMPR. As it stands, it's just a list of links to Amazon.com/.ca/.co.uk.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- So you haven't looked for sources. Poor nomination. Here's sources for seasons only:
[4],
[5] --
NeilN
talk to me 19:49, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Why is this constantly a thing? And I don't think the all inclusive nature of websites like DVD Talk or TV Shows on DVD should really count towards anything. They list everything like IMDB does and we don't count them as a source. And how does that MTV Geek thing even work as a review if they're discussing something that isn't out and it's just like vague research about the third season.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 19:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Again,
WP:BEFORE. IMDB is user generated content, not professional reviews
[6] Your suggestion seemingly would have us excluding industry-specific sources across the board. --
NeilN
talk to me 20:07, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- This still doesn't answer the WP:NOTIINFO and WP:NOTGUIDE portions.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:21, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Again,
WP:BEFORE. IMDB is user generated content, not professional reviews
[6] Your suggestion seemingly would have us excluding industry-specific sources across the board. --
NeilN
talk to me 20:07, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Why is this constantly a thing? And I don't think the all inclusive nature of websites like DVD Talk or TV Shows on DVD should really count towards anything. They list everything like IMDB does and we don't count them as a source. And how does that MTV Geek thing even work as a review if they're discussing something that isn't out and it's just like vague research about the third season.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 19:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- So you haven't looked for sources. Poor nomination. Here's sources for seasons only:
[4],
[5] --
NeilN
talk to me 19:49, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link still is not just MMPR which is what this article is about. And why would I look for sources when all I'm going to get is "you can buy the DVDs here" as results? We need sources explicitly about the releases of the first 3 seasons in general and not the 20 other seasons that followed that were not "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers". ANd also your comparison to
The Simpsons shorts is not valid. That's a list of episodes. This is a list of DVDs in 3 different regions sourced to being able to buy the DVDs in those particular regions rather than any sort of discussion about just the video releases for this small subset of a larger franchise. This article might have some use if it was beyond MMPR. As it stands, it's just a list of links to Amazon.com/.ca/.co.uk.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link is to a different set. I'm going to ask this explicitly: Have you looked for sources? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Those are not about Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (the first 3 seasons). They're about the entirety of all 20+ years of the Power Rangers franchise.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Entire articles about the releases are not significant coverage? --
NeilN
talk to me 15:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's still not significant coverage.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:48, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ryulong: Please read
WP:BEFORE, point D. It seems you have not done this as a quick search returned
[1],
[2],
[3] --
NeilN
talk to me 15:03, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's the point. There's nothing out there that says the entirety of the Power Rangers VHS or DVD releases is notable. And there was only one independent source that covered the release to DVD (I'm still not convinced TVShowsonDVD counts as a reliable source). This is a footnote on an article at best because I see no encyclopedic merit to having a list of every DVD of a whole TV series.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 09:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
So are you suggesting we delete all discographies, filmographies, episode lists, etc.? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
- No. I'm suggesting we delete all lists of DVDs unless there's substantial review of their contents as being part of a DVD collection or a commendation on contents of the DVD. If it's just a review of the episodes then that content belongs on an episode list or the article on the TV program. Not spun out into this list of just three seasons of a 20+ season franchise. If this list is expanded to cover all of Power Rangers and just not the Mighty Morphin seasons, then I could see a utility for this list. As it stands it's pointless. Most of this can be covered elsewhere.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 18:12, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:CSC #2. VMS Mosaic ( talk) 07:14, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- Notional Merge, which will effectively be a Keep. Could be merged into Mighty Morphin Power Rangers#Home_media, however this would no doubt make that article too long and lead to the recreation of this article as a breakout article once more. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 05:33, 3 August 2014 (UTC).
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- List of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers home media releases ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This list seems to fall foul of WP:NOTIINFO and WP:NOTGUIDE. The sources are just links to Amazon listings internationally that show that the releases exist and are/were for sale, but not that this is particularly a notable article on its own to garner its separate coverage (or any coverage for that matter). — Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:09, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:14, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep I just started the page
today and this seems to me to be no good faith or anything. As there are other pages in existence that list home media releases and uses Amazon.com as a source (Eg.
List of Hannah Montana DVDs and
List of Family Guy DVDs) so I do not see any reason why this should not be allowed. It seems to me that Ryūlóng is acting like he owns Wikipedia as he just went and decided on himself that the page should be redirected reverted my edits and that to me is not
WP:Good Faith and personally he should have brought this up on the talk page instead of disregarding the guidelines set up on Wikipedia and just nominating this for deletion. That is just plain rude and uncalled for.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Add on: Also if he had looked at the
talk page he would have seen that I asked for help to find sources that need them. If it needs other sources why can't he just go and post more sources other then the Amazon.com ones? There is no need to delete the page.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- These are unimportant points that do not address the issue at hand. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument here. And for someone who says that I'm not assuming good faith you do a lot of the same by saying I have some sort of WP:OWN claims. I've not disregarded any guidelines here by sending this to AFD. I do not think this article should exist. I am seeking the community's input on this matter to see if they agree or disagree. And I am not required to seek out sources as you requested. It is up to the people who think this page should be retained to provide reliable sources that show that the topic is notable.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Extended discussion moved to talk— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 21:21, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Add on: Also if he had looked at the
talk page he would have seen that I asked for help to find sources that need them. If it needs other sources why can't he just go and post more sources other then the Amazon.com ones? There is no need to delete the page.
Bumblebee9999 (
talk) 20:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Question to nominator Do you think this topic should not have an article or are you just concerned with the lack of reliable sources? Given how young this article is perhaps it can be given some time for improvement? Chillum 21:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
-
WP:NOR says If no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article about it.. Lists are subject to this to. If there are any reliable sources that cover the topic of listing "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers Home Media releases" then the article should stand. Not just supporting individual elements of the list but supporting the topic itself.
Chillum 21:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- It does not violate WP:NOR Chillum, as it has more then just sources by Amazon.com if you look at the references you can see there is sources by The Hollywood Reporter, Tvshowsondvd.com, Amazon.com (which I agree is the main source and more could be found if the page was given a chance) and trove.nla.gov.au. that is four sources in total. Bumblebee9999 ( talk) 21:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as notable releases, Passes GNG. – Davey2010 • (talk) 23:50, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep – Somewhat disruptive AfD; passes GNG. United States Man ( talk) 04:49, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Weak keep The nomination links to policy but does not make it clear what the actual concern is. The only thing I can gather for sure is that there is concern about sources. I agree there are problems but I do believe they can be solved. The subject is notable and surely has been commented on by numerous sources. If this is still not sourced better in a few months I may go the other way at the next AfD. Chillum 04:59, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - per nom. Why is it so hard to understand notability? Amazon retail links do not demonstrate notability, we need "significant coverage" in reliable sources. ukexpat ( talk) 12:04, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep The list has to be notable, not each DVD on the list. Given this is a very popular show, and the release on DVD was covered by independent sources, I would say a list is notable in the vein of
The Simpsons shorts (a
featured list). --
NeilN
talk to me 13:26, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's the point. There's nothing out there that says the entirety of the Power Rangers VHS or DVD releases is notable. And there was only one independent source that covered the release to DVD (I'm still not convinced TVShowsonDVD counts as a reliable source). This is a footnote on an article at best because I see no encyclopedic merit to having a list of every DVD of a whole TV series.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 09:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ryulong: Please read
WP:BEFORE, point D. It seems you have not done this as a quick search returned
[1],
[2],
[3] --
NeilN
talk to me 15:03, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's still not significant coverage.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:48, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Entire articles about the releases are not significant coverage? --
NeilN
talk to me 15:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Those are not about Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (the first 3 seasons). They're about the entirety of all 20+ years of the Power Rangers franchise.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link is to a different set. I'm going to ask this explicitly: Have you looked for sources? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link still is not just MMPR which is what this article is about. And why would I look for sources when all I'm going to get is "you can buy the DVDs here" as results? We need sources explicitly about the releases of the first 3 seasons in general and not the 20 other seasons that followed that were not "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers". ANd also your comparison to
The Simpsons shorts is not valid. That's a list of episodes. This is a list of DVDs in 3 different regions sourced to being able to buy the DVDs in those particular regions rather than any sort of discussion about just the video releases for this small subset of a larger franchise. This article might have some use if it was beyond MMPR. As it stands, it's just a list of links to Amazon.com/.ca/.co.uk.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- So you haven't looked for sources. Poor nomination. Here's sources for seasons only:
[4],
[5] --
NeilN
talk to me 19:49, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Why is this constantly a thing? And I don't think the all inclusive nature of websites like DVD Talk or TV Shows on DVD should really count towards anything. They list everything like IMDB does and we don't count them as a source. And how does that MTV Geek thing even work as a review if they're discussing something that isn't out and it's just like vague research about the third season.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 19:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Again,
WP:BEFORE. IMDB is user generated content, not professional reviews
[6] Your suggestion seemingly would have us excluding industry-specific sources across the board. --
NeilN
talk to me 20:07, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- This still doesn't answer the WP:NOTIINFO and WP:NOTGUIDE portions.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 20:21, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Again,
WP:BEFORE. IMDB is user generated content, not professional reviews
[6] Your suggestion seemingly would have us excluding industry-specific sources across the board. --
NeilN
talk to me 20:07, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Why is this constantly a thing? And I don't think the all inclusive nature of websites like DVD Talk or TV Shows on DVD should really count towards anything. They list everything like IMDB does and we don't count them as a source. And how does that MTV Geek thing even work as a review if they're discussing something that isn't out and it's just like vague research about the third season.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 19:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- So you haven't looked for sources. Poor nomination. Here's sources for seasons only:
[4],
[5] --
NeilN
talk to me 19:49, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link still is not just MMPR which is what this article is about. And why would I look for sources when all I'm going to get is "you can buy the DVDs here" as results? We need sources explicitly about the releases of the first 3 seasons in general and not the 20 other seasons that followed that were not "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers". ANd also your comparison to
The Simpsons shorts is not valid. That's a list of episodes. This is a list of DVDs in 3 different regions sourced to being able to buy the DVDs in those particular regions rather than any sort of discussion about just the video releases for this small subset of a larger franchise. This article might have some use if it was beyond MMPR. As it stands, it's just a list of links to Amazon.com/.ca/.co.uk.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 18:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- The third link is to a different set. I'm going to ask this explicitly: Have you looked for sources? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Those are not about Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (the first 3 seasons). They're about the entirety of all 20+ years of the Power Rangers franchise.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:54, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- Entire articles about the releases are not significant coverage? --
NeilN
talk to me 15:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's still not significant coverage.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 15:48, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Ryulong: Please read
WP:BEFORE, point D. It seems you have not done this as a quick search returned
[1],
[2],
[3] --
NeilN
talk to me 15:03, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
- That's the point. There's nothing out there that says the entirety of the Power Rangers VHS or DVD releases is notable. And there was only one independent source that covered the release to DVD (I'm still not convinced TVShowsonDVD counts as a reliable source). This is a footnote on an article at best because I see no encyclopedic merit to having a list of every DVD of a whole TV series.—
Ryūlóng (
琉竜) 09:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
So are you suggesting we delete all discographies, filmographies, episode lists, etc.? --
NeilN
talk to me 16:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
- No. I'm suggesting we delete all lists of DVDs unless there's substantial review of their contents as being part of a DVD collection or a commendation on contents of the DVD. If it's just a review of the episodes then that content belongs on an episode list or the article on the TV program. Not spun out into this list of just three seasons of a 20+ season franchise. If this list is expanded to cover all of Power Rangers and just not the Mighty Morphin seasons, then I could see a utility for this list. As it stands it's pointless. Most of this can be covered elsewhere.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜) 18:12, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:CSC #2. VMS Mosaic ( talk) 07:14, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
- Notional Merge, which will effectively be a Keep. Could be merged into Mighty Morphin Power Rangers#Home_media, however this would no doubt make that article too long and lead to the recreation of this article as a breakout article once more. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 05:33, 3 August 2014 (UTC).
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.