- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Looks like the discussion ran out of steam Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:17, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Larry D. Thomas
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Autobiography with a long history of SPA's and COI. Non notable fails WP:GNG, fails WP:NPOET no indepth coverage in any of the sources here and I can't find any elsewhere. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. A sort of COI thing. Have a look at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Request for independent re-creation of current Wikipedia page for Larry D. Thomas as well. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete I've spent some time searching for useful references and failed. I was drawn here by the
Streisand effect at the Teahouse, and this:
I have had a Wikipedia page for many years (under the name of Larry D. Thomas). This morning, I noticed on my page that a box was added indicating that my page has multiple issues. Would it be possible for my page to be independently re-created to absolve the issues noted?
which suggests that the page as it stands is a COI minefield.The awards won are very local, even though Texas is a somewhat large tract of land, and the coverage is woeful. One reference does not refer to the gentleman at all and another is a 404 error. It seems clear that there has been no notability gained since the article was created way back when. Fiddle Faddle 19:46, 8 October 2020 (UTC) - Possible additional source but paywalled, so I can't tell how independent/reliable it is and I can't tell if it provides
WP:SIGCOV or not:
- Ruffin, Paul. "Texas Poet Laureate: a conversation with Larry D. Thomas." Texas Books in Review, vol. 27, no. 2-3, 2007, p. 20+. Accessed 8 Oct. 2020. ( preview)
- This looks like a pretty selective award, albeit a state-wide one not a national one. I found this through a Google Scholar search for
"Larry D. Thomas" poetry
. - By the way, I was also drawn here by the Treehouse conversation. Streisand effect indeed.
- davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 20:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete as per above discussion. Balle010 ( talk) 02:18, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 04:05, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. While this may have been created by someone with a COI, I'm finding evidence that Thomas is indeed notable. The biggest issue is that a lot of the coverage was during that period in the early 2000s when not all coverage was put on the Internet. I'm still searching, but what I am finding does point towards notability and more sourcing. I also have to argue that being the Poet Laureate for a state is fairly significant. If it doesn't grant notability on achieving this alone (my stance), it would at least grant partial notability. This will definitely need to be cleaned up for readability and to ensure neutrality, but I don't think that it should be outright deleted. I also added some reviews for his work - there doesn't seem to be any COI as far as the reviews go that I can determine. The given reviews seem to be from a journal affiliated with the Texas State University, which he doesn't seem to have attended or taught at. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- I do think that this should be semi-protected and I must stress to whomever is behind the COI: for the love of poetry, please do not edit the article directly. Suggest additions via the article's talk page, the Teahouse, or through WP:POETRY. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete If we do not enforce our rules against COI by removing articles created through it we open up Wikipedia to being overrun by COI. We need to fight this.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- NOTE FROM LARRY D. THOMAS: Although I was not the creator of my Wikipedia page, almost all of the changes I made to the page were to note additional book publications (in print and online) as they were published. I, most unfortunately, was not aware that it was inappropriate for me to make any changes to my page. I sincerely apologize for doing this, and will definitely refrain from doing so in the future. 73.98.126.125 ( talk) 17:32, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Non notable. -- Devokewater (talk) 15:55, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm going to drop a note on the poetry WP just to see if they can help find additional sources. I'm also concerned with COI being one of the main drives to delete a page, particularly after I've gone through and done quite a lot of cleanup. Thomas himself has been trying to follow guidelines and rather than making the changes himself, he's been asking for corrections through other people - these have all been fairly minor changes, as it was just removing a book erroneously attributed to him and correcting a job title. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:18, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- I don't mean to start trouble with this, just saying that I'm uncomfortable since I can't help but wonder if there would be more of an argument for keeping this if there wasn't a COI. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- That's part of the reason why I think input from the poetry WP could be helpful when it comes to sourcing and rationales. If they deem Thomas non-notable then that will help assuage my concern.
- Weak keep after ignoring potential COI. 1) poet laureate is a pretty prominent decoration 2) sourcing includes: profile in a local paper, reviews ( [1], [2], [3] and more cited in the article) profile in Houston Chronicle. I don't think it's clear notability, but what is established is that he's a somewhat prominent poet in Texas (which by the way is a huge state), and I think a borderline pass of WP:NCREATIVE and WP:GNG. Best, Eddie891 Talk Work 20:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Looks like the discussion ran out of steam Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:17, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Larry D. Thomas
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Larry D. Thomas ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Autobiography with a long history of SPA's and COI. Non notable fails WP:GNG, fails WP:NPOET no indepth coverage in any of the sources here and I can't find any elsewhere. Theroadislong ( talk) 19:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. A sort of COI thing. Have a look at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Request for independent re-creation of current Wikipedia page for Larry D. Thomas as well. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:34, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. ─ The Aafī ( talk) 19:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete I've spent some time searching for useful references and failed. I was drawn here by the
Streisand effect at the Teahouse, and this:
I have had a Wikipedia page for many years (under the name of Larry D. Thomas). This morning, I noticed on my page that a box was added indicating that my page has multiple issues. Would it be possible for my page to be independently re-created to absolve the issues noted?
which suggests that the page as it stands is a COI minefield.The awards won are very local, even though Texas is a somewhat large tract of land, and the coverage is woeful. One reference does not refer to the gentleman at all and another is a 404 error. It seems clear that there has been no notability gained since the article was created way back when. Fiddle Faddle 19:46, 8 October 2020 (UTC) - Possible additional source but paywalled, so I can't tell how independent/reliable it is and I can't tell if it provides
WP:SIGCOV or not:
- Ruffin, Paul. "Texas Poet Laureate: a conversation with Larry D. Thomas." Texas Books in Review, vol. 27, no. 2-3, 2007, p. 20+. Accessed 8 Oct. 2020. ( preview)
- This looks like a pretty selective award, albeit a state-wide one not a national one. I found this through a Google Scholar search for
"Larry D. Thomas" poetry
. - By the way, I was also drawn here by the Treehouse conversation. Streisand effect indeed.
- davidwr/( talk)/( contribs) 20:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete as per above discussion. Balle010 ( talk) 02:18, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 04:05, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. While this may have been created by someone with a COI, I'm finding evidence that Thomas is indeed notable. The biggest issue is that a lot of the coverage was during that period in the early 2000s when not all coverage was put on the Internet. I'm still searching, but what I am finding does point towards notability and more sourcing. I also have to argue that being the Poet Laureate for a state is fairly significant. If it doesn't grant notability on achieving this alone (my stance), it would at least grant partial notability. This will definitely need to be cleaned up for readability and to ensure neutrality, but I don't think that it should be outright deleted. I also added some reviews for his work - there doesn't seem to be any COI as far as the reviews go that I can determine. The given reviews seem to be from a journal affiliated with the Texas State University, which he doesn't seem to have attended or taught at. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- I do think that this should be semi-protected and I must stress to whomever is behind the COI: for the love of poetry, please do not edit the article directly. Suggest additions via the article's talk page, the Teahouse, or through WP:POETRY. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete If we do not enforce our rules against COI by removing articles created through it we open up Wikipedia to being overrun by COI. We need to fight this.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 17:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- NOTE FROM LARRY D. THOMAS: Although I was not the creator of my Wikipedia page, almost all of the changes I made to the page were to note additional book publications (in print and online) as they were published. I, most unfortunately, was not aware that it was inappropriate for me to make any changes to my page. I sincerely apologize for doing this, and will definitely refrain from doing so in the future. 73.98.126.125 ( talk) 17:32, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Non notable. -- Devokewater (talk) 15:55, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm going to drop a note on the poetry WP just to see if they can help find additional sources. I'm also concerned with COI being one of the main drives to delete a page, particularly after I've gone through and done quite a lot of cleanup. Thomas himself has been trying to follow guidelines and rather than making the changes himself, he's been asking for corrections through other people - these have all been fairly minor changes, as it was just removing a book erroneously attributed to him and correcting a job title. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:18, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- I don't mean to start trouble with this, just saying that I'm uncomfortable since I can't help but wonder if there would be more of an argument for keeping this if there wasn't a COI. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- That's part of the reason why I think input from the poetry WP could be helpful when it comes to sourcing and rationales. If they deem Thomas non-notable then that will help assuage my concern.
- Weak keep after ignoring potential COI. 1) poet laureate is a pretty prominent decoration 2) sourcing includes: profile in a local paper, reviews ( [1], [2], [3] and more cited in the article) profile in Houston Chronicle. I don't think it's clear notability, but what is established is that he's a somewhat prominent poet in Texas (which by the way is a huge state), and I think a borderline pass of WP:NCREATIVE and WP:GNG. Best, Eddie891 Talk Work 20:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions) 14:02, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.