- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Joyous! | Talk 23:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
- Keri Sable ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A BLP lacking in reliable independents sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail. Sources listed are iafd, promotional profile at Wicked Pictures, award materials, or interviews -- none are suitable for establishing notability. Awards listed are not significant and well known.
Dec 2015 AfD closed as no consensus. One year later, it's an appropriate time to revisit. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:05, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:05, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:06, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Keep - NOTE: I have edited this article here again recently. The subject here has "won a well-known and significant industry award" - namely the Adam Film World Guide Award (one of the longest-running adult film industry award ceremonies) for "Starlet of the Year", which is very similar to other major award categories in the same industry (like the AVN Award for Best New Starlet & the XBIZ Award for Best New Starlet). All the citations currently used in this article here are reliable for the things that they are currently citing. Guy1890 ( talk) 06:27, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete We lack enough sources that discuss the subject in detail to justify having an article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete per nom's accurate analysis. Sourcing is minimal at best and clearly nonindependent. The "Adam Film World Guide Award" fails the PORNBIO "well-known/significant" standard by a healthy (or should that be unhealthy) margin; it's a non-notable award given out by a non-notable spinoff of a garden-variety porn magazine. The argument that it is "one of the longest-running adult film industry award ceremonies" is nonsensical and should be given zero weight because there is no award ceremony; as the minimal coverage of this tinfoil honorific shows, the awards are announced by press release and a list is published in the magazine -- not exactly an indication of prominence. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. ( talk) 02:55, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- The following is my statement from eleven months ago. Unscintillating ( talk) 00:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- Keep This particular actor has appeared in over 100 films. I'm not thrilled by the article, but it satisfies our policies and guidelines. This topic passes WP:N, whose basic concept is that the topic attracts the attention of the world at large. Porn-actor nominations need to focus on WP:V and WP:NOT. WP:V has not been questioned. Relevant discussion for WP:NOT so far is that it reads like a press release, but it is not a press release; so while it is a point that needs some attention, is a point that can be handled with editing, and AfD is not cleanup. The 2007 bio at this webpage states that the topic has appeared, "on the cover of the June 2005 issue of AVN Magazine and the September 2005 issue of Adam Film World Guide. Keri has also been interviewed by...publications as Club Magazine and European based adult industry magazine Hot Video." Hot Video is reported to use "professional journalists previously committed to other news fields", so this source might be useful. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment -- at issues here is WP:WHYN; the subject lacks reliable & independent sources that would cover it directly and detail, to enable editors to build an NPOV biography. K.e.coffman ( talk) 07:55, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- As you are aware from previous discussions, WP:WHYN is not a part of the guideline proper, having been rejected over time as such. Another view is now the main consensus as stated at WP:N, that WP:N is not a content guideline. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete per my comment on the prev AFD - Fails PORNBIO & GNG. – Davey2010 Talk 14:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- But does it fail WP:N? Do you agree that a topic with 100 film credits has attracted the attention of the world at large over a period of time? Unscintillating ( talk) 01:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- No I do not; these films are routinely filmed in days (?) and then scenes are often repackaged into yet more films. K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:02, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Nope, 90% of her films aren't notable and she herself isn't notable. – Davey2010 Talk 01:17, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the response. Unscintillating ( talk) 03:27, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The number-of-films criteria was removed from PORNBIO by consensus long ago, and when PORNBIO was a lengthy independent page, rather than part of
WP:PEOPLE. it was actually listed as an invalid argument
[1].
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (
talk)
13:12, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing the link, because it allows looking at the quality of the argument. "Number of films (e.g., 'any actor with X films is notable'). Pornographic films can be made in a few days, thus performers can appear in dozens of films per year." This is an argument based on production of films, rather than what Wikipedia cares about, which is attention given to the topic. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:15, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Joyous! | Talk 23:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
AfDs for this article:
- Keri Sable ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A BLP lacking in reliable independents sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail. Sources listed are iafd, promotional profile at Wicked Pictures, award materials, or interviews -- none are suitable for establishing notability. Awards listed are not significant and well known.
Dec 2015 AfD closed as no consensus. One year later, it's an appropriate time to revisit. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:05, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:05, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:06, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 19:00, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
- Keep - NOTE: I have edited this article here again recently. The subject here has "won a well-known and significant industry award" - namely the Adam Film World Guide Award (one of the longest-running adult film industry award ceremonies) for "Starlet of the Year", which is very similar to other major award categories in the same industry (like the AVN Award for Best New Starlet & the XBIZ Award for Best New Starlet). All the citations currently used in this article here are reliable for the things that they are currently citing. Guy1890 ( talk) 06:27, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete We lack enough sources that discuss the subject in detail to justify having an article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete per nom's accurate analysis. Sourcing is minimal at best and clearly nonindependent. The "Adam Film World Guide Award" fails the PORNBIO "well-known/significant" standard by a healthy (or should that be unhealthy) margin; it's a non-notable award given out by a non-notable spinoff of a garden-variety porn magazine. The argument that it is "one of the longest-running adult film industry award ceremonies" is nonsensical and should be given zero weight because there is no award ceremony; as the minimal coverage of this tinfoil honorific shows, the awards are announced by press release and a list is published in the magazine -- not exactly an indication of prominence. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. ( talk) 02:55, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- The following is my statement from eleven months ago. Unscintillating ( talk) 00:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- Keep This particular actor has appeared in over 100 films. I'm not thrilled by the article, but it satisfies our policies and guidelines. This topic passes WP:N, whose basic concept is that the topic attracts the attention of the world at large. Porn-actor nominations need to focus on WP:V and WP:NOT. WP:V has not been questioned. Relevant discussion for WP:NOT so far is that it reads like a press release, but it is not a press release; so while it is a point that needs some attention, is a point that can be handled with editing, and AfD is not cleanup. The 2007 bio at this webpage states that the topic has appeared, "on the cover of the June 2005 issue of AVN Magazine and the September 2005 issue of Adam Film World Guide. Keri has also been interviewed by...publications as Club Magazine and European based adult industry magazine Hot Video." Hot Video is reported to use "professional journalists previously committed to other news fields", so this source might be useful. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment -- at issues here is WP:WHYN; the subject lacks reliable & independent sources that would cover it directly and detail, to enable editors to build an NPOV biography. K.e.coffman ( talk) 07:55, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- As you are aware from previous discussions, WP:WHYN is not a part of the guideline proper, having been rejected over time as such. Another view is now the main consensus as stated at WP:N, that WP:N is not a content guideline. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Delete per my comment on the prev AFD - Fails PORNBIO & GNG. – Davey2010 Talk 14:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
- But does it fail WP:N? Do you agree that a topic with 100 film credits has attracted the attention of the world at large over a period of time? Unscintillating ( talk) 01:00, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- No I do not; these films are routinely filmed in days (?) and then scenes are often repackaged into yet more films. K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:02, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Nope, 90% of her films aren't notable and she herself isn't notable. – Davey2010 Talk 01:17, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the response. Unscintillating ( talk) 03:27, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: The number-of-films criteria was removed from PORNBIO by consensus long ago, and when PORNBIO was a lengthy independent page, rather than part of
WP:PEOPLE. it was actually listed as an invalid argument
[1].
The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (
talk)
13:12, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing the link, because it allows looking at the quality of the argument. "Number of films (e.g., 'any actor with X films is notable'). Pornographic films can be made in a few days, thus performers can appear in dozens of films per year." This is an argument based on production of films, rather than what Wikipedia cares about, which is attention given to the topic. Unscintillating ( talk) 01:15, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.