The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a consensus that this topic satisifies NGEO and thus has the presumption of notability owing to non-english language sources. Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:06, 24 January 2020 (UTC) reply

Kazhimbram (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Appears to fail the notability guideline for places; I cannot find a single reliable source meaningfully discussing it. Previously proposed for deletion, but that was contested via redirecting, only for the article to be restored. Glades12 ( talk) 11:55, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete. I can't find anything to verify that this is a (census recognised) village. There appears to be a locality with this name somewhere in/around Thissur (judging from Google Maps ), but if that's it then it's almost certainly not a notable one. I originally proposed this for deletion, but there have been objections (or hints of objections) from Arms & Hearts and Sam-2727. And adding the off-topic observation that the article itself has never been more than seven words long but by this stage several hundred words by at least four editors have been spent debating it. How many wikipedians does it take to change a light bulb? – Uanfala (talk) 14:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. – Uanfala (talk) 14:15, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

• Delete I was originally going to oppose this, but this wiki page [1] suggests that maybe Kazhimbram is just a town (perhaps more like a neighborhood in the United States) located within Thrissur. Thus maybe Kazhimbram should be redirected to Thrisur? Or is that sentence on that wiki page suggesting that this is a town in the district of Thrissur, and that link is simply a bad link that should actually go to Thrissur district? Sam-2727 ( talk) 16:07, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply
• Keep per WP:GEOLAND. This is not strictly a village but the coastal segment (see here) attached to the village of Edamuttam (you can see here how Google has the polygon data for the village and adjacent ones but not the coastal areas attached to them - however Kazhimbram Post Office is visible between Edamuttam and the sea). Although not a "village" originally Kazhimbram is a populated place and regarded as a village in some ways. It is a distinct electoral district with its own representative on Valapad Panchayat ( source). There is plenty to say about the place, for example this source notes that it suffered from severe coastal erosion which was considered a serious problem to due it being densely populated. It is the site of one of Kerala's official Fish Landing Centres, and contains the beach of the same name where people collect endangered turtle eggs. Did anyone search Malayalam sources yet? ---- Pontificalibus 16:09, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply
  • Great finds! If this is a village ward (as the electoral source indicates) and a coastal segment (as shown by the others), then I think it's existence is certainly verified, but I still don't see the standalone notability per GEOLAND. Redirecting to the the next higher-level unit sounds like the best thing to do. – Uanfala (talk) 16:37, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply
  • Being presumed to be notable does not necessarily mean actually being it. None of the sources you gave here (there may be more, obviously) cover the place in much detail; the Journal of the Institution of Engineers only names it briefly as one affected village, and the one about the beach doesn't even seem to mention Kazhimbram. I am intrigued by this being an electoral district though. Glades12 ( talk) 16:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply
  • Yes I agree that there aren't enough notable sources here. I guess it is a legally recognized voting district (contrary to what I thought originally), but it still doesn't meet general notability guidelines. I agree that a redirect would do good here. However, I am still hesitant in my vote of delete until sources in different languages have been searched for. Sam-2727 ( talk) 17:19, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

Redirect targets If this is to be a redirect, what would the target be? As I said in my original delete vote, perhaps a redirect to Thrissur district would be appropriate. However, I am not familiar with organization of government in India. Sam-2727 ( talk) 17:22, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

It's convention that verified settlements are kept, this topic doesn't need to meet WP:GNG. A redirect is not appropriate because there are numerous possible targets none of which are satisfactory. For example in the 2015 election it was in Valapad Grama Panchayat but also Thalikulam Block Panchayat. The closest city is Thrissur but it would ridiculous for that article to contain information on all the surrounding villages, likewise with the Thrissur district article, it can't accommodate information on all the individual settlements. Far better to retain a separate article which can be expanded as and when further sources are found.---- Pontificalibus 17:38, 31 December 2019 (UTC) reply

I know it's convention to keep legally recognized villages/towns as articles, but from what you wrote, I got the impression that this wasn't an officially recognized town but rather an electoral district. Since this isn't a legally recognized village, notability standards should be applied to it, as the article is about the village, not the electoral district. Sam-2727 ( talk) 23:11, 1 January 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep WP:GEOLAND is pretty clear on this. The town has been subject to censuses of India and thus warrants a standalone article. -- RaviC ( talk) 12:12, 9 January 2020 (UTC) reply
  • As discussed above, the place appears to be below the level of the smallest entities enumerated in the census. For example, it seems to be absent from the 2011 district handbook for Thrissur. – Uanfala (talk) 14:25, 9 January 2020 (UTC) reply
  • You're just repeating Pontificalibus' argument, which has been refuted. Glades12 ( talk) 14:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. J 947 ^{( c)}, at 22:44, 16 January 2020 (UTC) reply

• Redirect perhaps to Thrissur district or Valapad. Geoland does not mandate that any place with a name must have an article. Being a ward in a village council suggests it may be a neighborhood or sub-village, but not a "legally recognized" village (as one enumerated in a census may be) per geoland. Other wards are "VALAPAD HIGHSCHOOL" and "PANCHAYATH OFFICE" so I do not take being a minor local electoral boundary as evidence of notability. Being the name of a beach that has been eroded is irrelevant. Reywas92 ^Talk 04:03, 17 January 2020 (UTC) reply

Government sources all state that VPM SNDP Higher Secondary School is in Kazhimbram as a top order settlement. Redirecting to Thrissur district would be as absurd as redirecting Airmont, New York to New York (state). Redirecting to any other village or panchayat article is problematic for the reasons I set out above: Kazhimbram has been and is in a variety of administrative areas for different purposes.---- Pontificalibus 15:15, 18 January 2020 (UTC) reply

Well more like to Rockland County, New York but no that would not be the best target. Perhaps to Valapad is more like to Ramapo, New York as a village within a town but obviously it's not the same system. This source and the census is more compelling than the others though so I change my vote to keep. Reywas92 ^Talk 05:51, 22 January 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep mentioned in the 1981 Indian census. Passes WP:GEOLAND, which typically exempts articles from WP:GNG because of the presumption they've been covered somewhere. In this case there appear to be at least a few other English-language sources available, and no local language search appears to have been performed. [2] and [3] SportingFlyer T· C 14:12, 18 January 2020 (UTC) reply

Could you provide a source for the Indian census reference? As mentioned before, it's probably not a legally recognized village. Sam-2727 ( talk) 14:58, 18 January 2020 (UTC) reply

I've already provided two above, and added it into the article. SportingFlyer T· C 21:35, 18 January 2020 (UTC) reply

• Keep per WP:GEOLAND, per SportingFlyer. KartikeyaS343 ( talk) 18:55, 23 January 2020 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.