- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. JGHowes talk 22:29, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Kaipkire ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
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Fails WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO. Unable to find any biographic details. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete lacks SIGCOV in multiple RS so fails WP:GNG. Mztourist ( talk) 03:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep She has an entry in the The Encyclopedia of Amazons and so has obviously been noticed in an encyclopedic way, passing WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, WP:POLITICIAN, WP:SOLDIER, &c. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- A mention in one book does not amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS.
Mztourist (
talk)
09:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @
Andrew Davidson: Do you feel The Encyclopedia of Amazons, which has no Wikipedia article and no redlinks, is a notable national biography, per
WP:ANYBIO?
Magnolia677 (
talk)
10:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- The relevant part of WP:ANYBIO is "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field." Q.E.D. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:28, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @ Andrew Davidson: Are you able to provide any sources supporting this person's contributions are "widely regognized"? Magnolia677 ( talk) 11:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- It's not a "mention in one book" but significant coverage in an encyclopedia in addition to the book cited in the article quite a few hours before you commented here. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @
Andrew Davidson: Do you feel The Encyclopedia of Amazons, which has no Wikipedia article and no redlinks, is a notable national biography, per
WP:ANYBIO?
Magnolia677 (
talk)
10:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- A mention in one book does not amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS.
Mztourist (
talk)
09:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete unless further sourcing can be provided. A cursory google search reveals a great deal of interest from American activists on Twitter and virtually nothing in anything resembling a
WP:RS. Given that the Herero genocide has received quite a bit of scholarly attention, this is pretty surprising. —
Brigade Piron (
talk)
16:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- And what makes you think that a cursory Google search is in any way relevant, particlarly for an article about a subject that has received quite a bit of scholarly attention? Look in books and academic articles for WP:RS. They are very rarely found by a web search. If you look in the place where Twitter posts and the like predominate then that is what you will find. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Merge with redirect to Herero and Namaqua genocide - If all we have right now is the one source, which says she is known for her participation in that event, and the result is it's a one-sentence stub, the reader will be better served reading about her in the article about the genocide. If more sources are found, the redirect can (and should) be expanded to a stub. I don't doubt that there are more sources out there, but my thought on WP:PAGEDECIDE is it's better as a redirect until we have more material to present. Le v!v ich 21:01, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - I am finding many sources when searching academic journals; I've added a few to the article. Perhaps a WP:BEFORE may not have been completed? Subject of the article is notable, however the article can be improved (which is not a reason for deletion). Meets GNG. Netherzone ( talk) 21:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Bundy's Let the Women Keep Silent in the Churches almost seems to have copied this page. I can't read the relevant part of the The Cultural Unity of Negro Africa, please advise what it says. The UN report only states "Kaipkire of the Herero led her people in battles against European slave traders." These are passing mentions giving the same limited information, not SIGCOV. Mztourist ( talk) 05:18, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Sufficient sourcing (now). She is among the notable women who fought against colonialism in Africa. -- Green C 14:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Just because a writer slaps to word "encyclopedia" on their book does not make it automatically a more forceful source than anything else we have. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:26, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Johnpacklambert I know you like to be direct, but with all due respect, it is not necessary to make your point by denigrating the book and its author by claiming that the word "encylopedia" was cavalierly "slapped on". The University of Michigan Press (the original publisher, now in multiple editions) vets their books. The reason some editors mentioned it is that it counts towards WP:ANYBIO. Netherzone ( talk) 16:36, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Seeing the condition of this article when the article was nominated...it has come a long way during AfD. Lightburst ( talk) 20:48, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. JGHowes talk 22:29, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Kaipkire ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO. Unable to find any biographic details. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:57, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Delete lacks SIGCOV in multiple RS so fails WP:GNG. Mztourist ( talk) 03:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep She has an entry in the The Encyclopedia of Amazons and so has obviously been noticed in an encyclopedic way, passing WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, WP:POLITICIAN, WP:SOLDIER, &c. Andrew🐉( talk) 09:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- A mention in one book does not amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS.
Mztourist (
talk)
09:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @
Andrew Davidson: Do you feel The Encyclopedia of Amazons, which has no Wikipedia article and no redlinks, is a notable national biography, per
WP:ANYBIO?
Magnolia677 (
talk)
10:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- The relevant part of WP:ANYBIO is "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field." Q.E.D. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:28, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @ Andrew Davidson: Are you able to provide any sources supporting this person's contributions are "widely regognized"? Magnolia677 ( talk) 11:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- It's not a "mention in one book" but significant coverage in an encyclopedia in addition to the book cited in the article quite a few hours before you commented here. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- @
Andrew Davidson: Do you feel The Encyclopedia of Amazons, which has no Wikipedia article and no redlinks, is a notable national biography, per
WP:ANYBIO?
Magnolia677 (
talk)
10:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- A mention in one book does not amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS.
Mztourist (
talk)
09:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Delete unless further sourcing can be provided. A cursory google search reveals a great deal of interest from American activists on Twitter and virtually nothing in anything resembling a
WP:RS. Given that the Herero genocide has received quite a bit of scholarly attention, this is pretty surprising. —
Brigade Piron (
talk)
16:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- And what makes you think that a cursory Google search is in any way relevant, particlarly for an article about a subject that has received quite a bit of scholarly attention? Look in books and academic articles for WP:RS. They are very rarely found by a web search. If you look in the place where Twitter posts and the like predominate then that is what you will find. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Merge with redirect to Herero and Namaqua genocide - If all we have right now is the one source, which says she is known for her participation in that event, and the result is it's a one-sentence stub, the reader will be better served reading about her in the article about the genocide. If more sources are found, the redirect can (and should) be expanded to a stub. I don't doubt that there are more sources out there, but my thought on WP:PAGEDECIDE is it's better as a redirect until we have more material to present. Le v!v ich 21:01, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - I am finding many sources when searching academic journals; I've added a few to the article. Perhaps a WP:BEFORE may not have been completed? Subject of the article is notable, however the article can be improved (which is not a reason for deletion). Meets GNG. Netherzone ( talk) 21:35, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- Bundy's Let the Women Keep Silent in the Churches almost seems to have copied this page. I can't read the relevant part of the The Cultural Unity of Negro Africa, please advise what it says. The UN report only states "Kaipkire of the Herero led her people in battles against European slave traders." These are passing mentions giving the same limited information, not SIGCOV. Mztourist ( talk) 05:18, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Sufficient sourcing (now). She is among the notable women who fought against colonialism in Africa. -- Green C 14:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Just because a writer slaps to word "encyclopedia" on their book does not make it automatically a more forceful source than anything else we have. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 19:26, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Johnpacklambert I know you like to be direct, but with all due respect, it is not necessary to make your point by denigrating the book and its author by claiming that the word "encylopedia" was cavalierly "slapped on". The University of Michigan Press (the original publisher, now in multiple editions) vets their books. The reason some editors mentioned it is that it counts towards WP:ANYBIO. Netherzone ( talk) 16:36, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Seeing the condition of this article when the article was nominated...it has come a long way during AfD. Lightburst ( talk) 20:48, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.