The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 08:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC) reply

Josh Coulson (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)

Fails WP:BIO as never having played in a fully professional league (Premier, Championship, Leagues 1 and 2). This is a multi-nomination for:

• Phil Smith (footballer)
• Michael Hyem
• Jordan Collins
• Shane Herbert
• Robbie Simpson
• Michael Gash
• Josh Simpson (footballer)

Delete all. BlueValour 23:44, 28 April 2007 (UTC) reply

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. BlueValour 00:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete all as they currently stand, with no prejudice against recreation of any one article if the respective subject does play first-team football in a full professional league, at some point in the future. Qwghlm 00:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete all except Herbert and Simpson Ditto Qwghlm's with no prejudice to recreate. KP Botany 00:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete all per Qwghlm. I see no reason to keep Herbert and Simpson (irrespective of which of the two Simpsons it was that KP Botany was actually referring to), neither has played at a fully-professional level ChrisTheDude 07:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
  • Neither do I. Punkmorten 09:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
  • But, Robbie Simpson is a full time professional, has substantiated interest from Championship level clubs ^[1], has national level recognition (from the England National Game XI) and has had multiple awards for achievement at a professional club ( WP:BIO lists as suitable biography candidates: "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league" - the distinction here is arbitrary, particulary since the Conference is all-but professional). I suggest that, at the very least, Robbie Simpson's profile be kept (although I would argue that as professional sportsman playing for a professional club in a 90% professional league, all the above are worthy of a bio according to WP:BIO's criteria). Oli 16:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
    • Oh, my bad, I noticed that and thought I corrected it. Robbie Simpson is currently a professional footballer, and his article of all of them should be kept. If your reason for deleting is that he hasn't played at professional level, then please change, as this appears to be incorrect information you have from the sports line. Also you didn't sign your posts, please do so. KP Botany 18:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
      • In what way is it "incorrect information" to say he has not played at a professional level? He has never played at a level higher than Conference National, and Conference National is not a fully professional league. Dozens of other Conference players have had their articles deleted over the last couple of years for this specific reason ChrisTheDude 22:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
        • Hmmm, well, you said it accurately, "Conference National is not a fully professional league" as only some clubs in the league are fully professional, but then failed to include the pertinent information about Robbie Smith, the subject of discussion. If "dozens of other articles were deleted for this specific reason," namely, your calling Conference National not a "fully professional league" then they were deleted in error for the wrong reason. The issue is Robbie Smith's page. But, actually, the article is so poorly written, it won't be harmed by deleting it, and I can't quite get too worked up about it. KP Botany 22:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
          • Huh? Who's Robbie Smith? Do you mean Robbie Simpson? What is the "pertinent information" you refer to? There's nothing anywhere in his article to indicate he's played in a fully professional league, therefore he doesn't meet the requirements of WP:BIO. Nowhere in that guideline does it say that speculative interest from higher-level clubs qualifies a player for an article, nor playing for England at a non-professional level. I also don't understand the point you are trying to make when you say that the other articles were deleted "in error for the wrong reason". They didn't satisfy WP:BIO requirements so they went..... ChrisTheDude 22:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
          • Simpson. If you stand by your comment that "Conference National is not a fully professional league" means that none of their players are professional footballers, you better do a lot of editing to correct misinformation all over the place which indicates that some of their clubs are professional and others semi-professional. KP Botany 22:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
            • My comment that "Conference National is not a fully professional league means that none of their players are professional footballers"? I never said that. I am not disputing that these players are professionals, but as repeatedly stated above, players have to play in a fully professional league to qualify for an article, and Conference National is not a fully professional league. So whilst these players are professionals (note that I'm still not disputing that fact), they don't satisfy the requirements of WP:BIO. This discussion doesn't seem to be getting anywhere in a hurry, think I'll go to bed ChrisTheDude 22:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
              • • Oh, I missed this Wikipedia policy. Please post a link to the exact page where it says that "Players have to play in a fully professional league to qualify for an article," and we'll be done with this another time. KP Botany 23:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC) reply
                  • WP:BIO#Athletes BlueValour 03:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC) reply
                    • Actually that page seems to have been re-organised a bit and the specific section is now at WP:BIO#Special cases ChrisTheDude 10:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC) reply

(Unindent) Reply You appear to have not read the page you quoted:

• Athletes:
  • Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming and tennis
  • Competitors who have played or competed at the highest level in amateur sports.

You just directed me to a policy that puts amateurs at the highest level in the same league as fully professional. Not surprised, though, that you got precedent and the quote wrong, as the overarching policy is each page can stand or fall on its own. Let's not take you as a Gills expert, either. KP Botany 02:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC) reply

• Right, now you're just being plain insulting, please desist per WP:NPA. I also don't see in what way I "got the quote or precedent wrong" - the policy states that competitors in amateur sports can have an article if they have played at the highest level. Football is not an amateur sport and is therefore covered by the first clause which says competitors have to have played in a fully professional league ChrisTheDude 06:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC) reply
• Comment Shane Herbert is listed as being on loan to Gillingham in the 2005-06 season. However, no details are given as to whether he played for them or not. If he did play in the Football League for Gillingham would that qualify him to be kept? ♦Tangerines BFC ♦· Talk 23:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC) reply
  • As a Gillingham fan myself, I can confirm that he never played for the first team, nor do I recall him even being in the recognised first team squad, in fact I'd never even heard of him prior to this AfD and have no recollection of this supposed loan spell. Soccerbase also has no record of him playing for the Gills and shows that our goalies that season were Jason Brown (39 games), Paul Crichton (1 game) and Tony Bullock (6 games) - hope this helps ChrisTheDude 06:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete all Fair enough, as you would know as a Gills fan, so on that basis my vote would be to delete all as currently non notable ♦Tangerines BFC ♦· Talk 21:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC) reply
• Delete all per precedent. HornetMike 10:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC) Robbie Simpson now plays for Hudderfield! reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.